How do you know you need an Aiming System?

[Bobkitty]

I'm starting this thread to find out how pool players decided one day that they "NEED" an aiming system. Is there a standard potting balls test that is administered that will determine whether one is needed...or not? Here is a little test for you; Set up an OB at the exact center of the table and the CB about 1 - 1.5 diamond(s) away for a 1/2 ball hit left cut into the side pocket. Now, make the ball. Set it up again and make the ball brush the left hand corner of the pocket (5 on the pocket) as it goes in, set it up again and make the OB brush the right hand corner of the side pocket (1 on the pocket) as it goes in. IF you can do that, you do NOT need an aiming system as your "aimer" is pretty darn good.

 

[BigBoof]

Pool is a mentally taxing activity. Most aiming systems try to reduce most shots to a small number of categories so you effectively reduce the brainpower needed to perform.

CJ always credits his TOI system for allowing him to play at a high level for long sessions.

I don't think it has to do with how well you can pocket balls as it is about doing it under pressure and making the game feel simpler.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[Bobkitty]

Pool is a mentally taxing activity. Most aiming systems try to reduce most shots to a small number of categories so you effectively reduce the brainpower needed to perform.

CJ always credits his TOI system for allowing him to play at a high level for long sessions.

I don't think it has to do with how well you can pocket balls as it is about doing it under pressure and making the game feel simpler.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Good points! But, I'm curious why people gravitated toward CTE or SAMBA or 99, etc.
What made them spring $$$ for the system? I know in my own case, I was thinking; "wow, CTE will allow me to make those hard shots without working on them individually". But, I came to the realization that I can either work on the shots I find difficult or I can work on a system. For now, I'll take working on the hard shots.

 

[Renegade_56]

Wow, after all those lessons and all you can think about is making a half ball hit. Pool is not about just making a ball or being able to cheat a pocket. The cueball is the trick. Set up that same shot and position 6 more balls on the table at random positions and then play position and run out all 7 balls. Then when you can do that 4 out of 5 times do it again, but make all balls in the same pocket, like one pocket. Any one can make a 1/2 ball hit, but that don't make you a pool player.

 

[BigBoof]

I think my point is that they are not for the benefit of making an 89 degree cut shot. They help for that 2 foot easy shot on the 9-ball after you made some amazing cut shot on the 8.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[Bobkitty]

Wow, after all those lessons and all you can think about is making a half ball hit. Pool is not about just making a ball or being able to cheat a pocket. The cueball is the trick. Set up that same shot and position 6 more balls on the table at random positions and then play position and run out all 7 balls. Then when you can do that 4 out of 5 times do it again, but make all balls in the same pocket, like one pocket. Any one can make a 1/2 ball hit, but that don't make you a pool player.

1/2 ball hit to the middle, a 5 on the pocket is a little thinner, a 1 on the pocket is a little thicker. If someone can make those minute adjustments, their aiming system (however they do it) is okay. Your writing about getting shape for a run out. Where does CTE fit in? I have not seen that discussion on AZB and this is the "aiming" thread.

 

[Neil]

1/2 ball hit to the middle, a 5 on the pocket is a little thinner, a 1 on the pocket is a little thicker. If someone can make those minute adjustments, their aiming system (however they do it) is okay. Your writing about getting shape for a run out. Where does CTE fit in? I have not seen that discussion on AZB and this is the "aiming" thread.

Take the same shot. Shoot it ten times. Record your score. Now, set it up to the opposite side, shoot it ten times. Compare your score.

Now, set up the first shot again. This time move the cb over two inches closer to the ob. (steeper angle) Shoot it ten times. Then set it up to the opposite side but this time make it three inches closer. Record your score.

Now set up the first shot again. Shoot it in the side. Now shoot it in the corner, then shoot it in the opposite corner. Then bank it one rail to the far corner. Then bank it to the opposite far corner. Now bank it to the opposite side one rail off the short rail. What were your scores shooting each shot one time? (for the banks, you are allowed to come close to making it as they depend on speed and spin and table conditions)

If you have no problem aiming, you should have made every shot or come very close on the banks.

Now, on your first shot, you had a "cheater" going for you. You set it up for a half ball hit. Easy aim, center cb to edge of ob. How would you like to have that "cheater" on every shot you shoot? That is the purpose of an aiming system. They take the worry and guesswork out of aiming and give you something concrete to aim at or set you up on the actual shot line.

 

[8pack]

Good points! But, I'm curious why people gravitated toward CTE or SAMBA or 99, etc.
What made them spring $$$ for the system? I know in my own case, I was thinking; "wow, CTE will allow me to make those hard shots without working on them individually". But, I came to the realization that I can either work on the shots I find difficult or I can work on a system. For now, I'll take working on the hard shots.

A lot of players out there. Take the percentage of that your gonna realize its less then 1 percent of people using cte or samba. Aiming is about feedback when using a system.

The absolute worst thing you can do on a shot is not know if its being over cut or under cut. Connect in a way that you know one or the other. And one is better then the other.:smile: There's also an area of shots that will give you fits, you address them with spin or you need to over cut them.(you have to figure that out for yourself, I plan on writing the best book ever ), An another thing...there's another area where depth perception comes into play. the ball looks like it needs cut more, but it really doesn't. (you"ll have to figure that out for yourself also.. I plan on writing the best book ever}. You believe me ?:smile: Once you get a good handle on spin, deflection, speed and the number one factor besides the stroke..DISTANCE. you'll know how to aim cause them factors tell you where your aim line is.

That is the truth...unless you play snooker.

 

[Bobkitty]

Take the same shot. Shoot it ten times. Record your score. Now, set it up to the opposite side, shoot it ten times. Compare your score.

Now, set up the first shot again. This time move the cb over two inches closer to the ob. (steeper angle) Shoot it ten times. Then set it up to the opposite side but this time make it three inches closer. Record your score.

Now set up the first shot again. Shoot it in the side. Now shoot it in the corner, then shoot it in the opposite corner. Then bank it one rail to the far corner. Then bank it to the opposite far corner. Now bank it to the opposite side one rail off the short rail. What were your scores shooting each shot one time? (for the banks, you are allowed to come close to making it as they depend on speed and spin and table conditions)

If you have no problem aiming, you should have made every shot or come very close on the banks.

Now, on your first shot, you had a "cheater" going for you. You set it up for a half ball hit. Easy aim, center cb to edge of ob. How would you like to have that "cheater" on every shot you shoot? That is the purpose of an aiming system. They take the worry and guesswork out of aiming and give you something concrete to aim at or set you up on the actual shot line.

I didn't mean for the set up to cheat by the 1/2 ball hit. I just meant to put it at any angle and shoot the shots. In the middle of the pocket and then again make minute adjustments to hit a little thick and a little thin. If I though I would not have to do the work "to earn" making a shot like the >45 degree cross table cut to the corner 3" off the opposite long rail, I'd stop the presses and learn an aiming system. When the balls are about parallel and the CB needs to come all the way back to the end rail for shape, the choice is to pound the almost straight in with near break speed or make the cross table cut with a medium to soft stroke for perfect shape on the end rail. Most of us avoid that shot because it's damn tough to make. You are about to tell me CTE makes that shot a breeze?

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I'm starting this thread to find out how pool players decided one day that they "NEED" an aiming system.

In my case it happened within a couple of months of starting to shoot pool on a regular basis at 16 years old because there weren't very many balls going into pockets at all, let alone on a consistent basis. I have no idea how others decide it.
Maybe because they suck and everyone is kicking their ass.

Somebody showed me how to put the tip of my cue right at the spot on the OB that pointed straight into the pocket which is where the CB had to strike it. IOW, contact point aiming system.

I still kept missing balls because I was aiming the tip to the spot on the OB as directed but also trying to hit the spot with the center of the CB. Nobody told me it had to be an equal and opposite spot on the CB which contacted the spot on the OB.

Finally I figured it out on my own and got real good in a few years because I lived on a pool table.

After that, you come to learn other players are doing different things to aim and those players are better than you.

From there on out it's a matter of curiosity, quest to learn and try out new things, and to get another step better.

If it doesn't work as good as what you're using, then bye-bye. If it works better, "hot damn"!

 

[SpiderWebComm]

(I plan on writing the best book ever ):

And I would like to be the first on the list for preorder. It'll be a very quick read at about a page and a half and should be fairly inexpensive.

 

[lfigueroa]

I'm starting this thread to find out how pool players decided one day that they "NEED" an aiming system. Is there a standard potting balls test that is administered that will determine whether one is needed...or not? Here is a little test for you; Set up an OB at the exact center of the table and the CB about 1 - 1.5 diamond(s) away for a 1/2 ball hit left cut into the side pocket. Now, make the ball. Set it up again and make the ball brush the left hand corner of the pocket (5 on the pocket) as it goes in, set it up again and make the OB brush the right hand corner of the side pocket (1 on the pocket) as it goes in. IF you can do that, you do NOT need an aiming system as your "aimer" is pretty darn good.

It's human nature to try to codify things. And pool seems like a natural, what with its exact table dimensions, perfectly round spheres, and level surface. IOWs it would appear the perfect candidate for geometric analysis and reduction to a neat little system for aiming.

But there are several flies in the ointment: players stand, view, and shoot from various heights; there are issues with squirt, swerve, speed, throw, and english to name a few. And rare is the perfect stroke, so each player must develop their own "reality" for playing pool based upon how they uniquely execute. So all the perfect geometry pretty much goes flying out the window in real life.

Of course none of that stops folks from attempting to put lines and protractors all over the table and that can be a fun exercise. But pool is as much art as it is science. So when it comes down to that final moment -- when the cue tip hits the ball -- it's a matter of feel not system.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Bobkitty]

It's human nature to try to codify things. And pool seems like a natural, what with its exact table dimensions, perfectly round spheres, and level surface. IOWs it would appear the perfect candidate for geometric analysis and reduction to a neat little system for aiming.

But there are several flies in the ointment: players stand, view, and shoot from various heights; there are issues with squirt, swerve, speed, throw, and english to name a few. And rare is the perfect stroke, so each player must develop their own "reality" for playing pool based upon how they uniquely execute. So all the perfect geometry pretty much goes flying out the window in real life.

Of course none of that stops folks from attempting to put lines and protractors all over the table and that can be a fun exercise. But pool is as much art as it is science. So when it comes down to that final moment -- when the cue tip hits the ball -- it's a matter of feel not system.

Lou Figueroa

By going to a very wise instructor, I've learned what I can do and have learned what is possible by watching and talking to him. I and I think everyone can take a straight in shot and hit the left of the pocket, middle and the right side. I can do that now up to about a 20 degree cut, But, that "perception" of the pocket goes away as the angle increases and the pocket is now to one side in our vision. But, Robin says he still sees the lines just as easily as with the straight ins at all angles! It's an amazing thing but something that the brain can learn with practice and hard work. Maybe that can be learned....at age 71, learning does not come easy.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

So when it comes down to that final moment -- when the cue tip hits the ball -- it's a matter of feel not system.

Lou Figueroa

When the cue tip hits the ball, I agree it's all a matter of feel. But prior to starting the stroke back it's the EYES, LINING UP PROPERLY, and AIMING.

Funny how guys who used to play real good pool start playing like crap when their vision begins to weaken more and more or they develop cataracts which precludes them from seeing the OB sharply to aim at. At that time it is all feel and guesswork.

Exactly why they miss a lot of balls and play s*itty.

 

[Low500]

How I knew

Why I decided I needed an aiming system:
After a lifetime of "estimating" shot angles using the outdated fraction aiming ideas from the little red Willie Mosconi book of the fifties, I came to the conclusion that there just had to be a better way out there somewhere. A way which would give CONSISTENCY and replace those days of "I can't make a ball today". Playing the game was like a roller coaster...some days running out and then other days of just pooching everything in sight. Except for straight-ins and the old reliable basic half-ball hit, the other shots kept me in a state of confusion.
I longed for a way to get a repeatable, high percentage method to pot balls...over and over and over....without a whole lot of brainwork. I wanted to be SURE that if I missed a shot it was not because I misjudged the angle...thereby eliminating a variable.
A method that would stand up under the crummy conditions of most pool action in the USA...fatigue, eye strain, cigarette smoke, the stench of germ ridden bathrooms, too much to drink, distractions from the railbirds, loud music, scantily attired females, and all the rest that goes along with the sorry state of this wonderful game we have chosen.
A method that would shut out the siren calls of the soothsayers living in the past with their tales of guns, "bank shots and other great robberies", and so on.
To my way of thinking, after acquiring a consistent aiming process to pot balls, then it would be a matter of really enjoying the game by concentrating on higher levels of position play, patterns, combinations, caroms, safeties and all the other beautiful aspects of pool. Enjoying the feel of a perfect contact and hearing that sound of the object ball splattering into the back of a pocket.
By total accident, I stumbled across the Stan Shuffett YouTube videos and I was flabbergasted. I never saw anything like them. And...it made perfect sense, all the shots reduced to only four perceptions. What a find! Only four angles to be concerned with and not a bunch of complex 'this-and-thats'....mathematic guesses not worth a hill of beans. (I don't think Mosconi even did it himself) Or even worse, depending and hoping on the ideas of "that looks pretty good, I feel good about making this shot".
I am now having the time of my life with the game...loving it as never before.
That's the tale.:smile:

 

[lfigueroa]

By going to a very wise instructor, I've learned what I can do and have learned what is possible by watching and talking to him. I and I think everyone can take a straight in shot and hit the left of the pocket, middle and the right side. I can do that now up to about a 20 degree cut, But, that "perception" of the pocket goes away as the angle increases and the pocket is now to one side in our vision. But, Robin says he still sees the lines just as easily as with the straight ins at all angles! It's an amazing thing but something that the brain can learn with practice and hard work. Maybe that can be learned....at age 71, learning does not come easy.

I have no idea what kind of equipment you're playing on but most days I'm playing on a very unforgiving 9' Diamond -- same as many of the events I play in. And frankly, unless the OB is exceedingly close to the pocket, you have to strike the center of the pocket or the ball doesn't drop. You even look at the ball fuuny and it will flip you off and hang.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Bobkitty]

I have no idea what kind of equipment you're playing on but most days I'm playing on a very unforgiving 9' Diamond -- same as many of the events I play in. And frankly, unless the OB is exceedingly close to the pocket, you have to strike the center of the pocket or the ball doesn't drop. You even look at the ball fuuny and it will flip you off and hang.

Lou Figueroa

I'll repeat; every shot into every pocket has a thick entry, middle and thin entry. Being able to alter one's aim in these minute adjustments will require quite an accurate aiming system and we have one.... it's called the brain. Let's say you've got a shot where you need to "throw" the ball into the cornet pocket with max English and stun for the maximum throw so you can hold the CB. Hitting thick on the pocket is an important ingredient in order to hold the CB is we're at the max.

 

[lfigueroa]

I'll repeat; every shot into every pocket has a thick entry, middle and thin entry. Being able to alter one's aim in these minute adjustments will require quite an accurate aiming system and we have one.... it's called the brain. Let's say you've got a shot where you need to "throw" the ball into the cornet pocket with max English and stun for the maximum throw so you can hold the CB. Hitting thick on the pocket is an important ingredient in order to hold the CB is we're at the max.

What kind of equipment are you playing on?

Regardless, if you're ever passing through STL, I invite you to try that on the table I play on. I doubt youll be successfully doing that in practice and I assure you, you will not be doing it in a money game.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Bobkitty]

What kind of equipment are you playing on?

Regardless, if you're ever passing through STL, I invite you to try that on the table I play on. I doubt youll be successfully doing that in practice and I assure you, you will not be doing it in a money game.

Lou Figueroa

I have a 9' table with 4.5" pockets. My teacher's 9' table is has 4.75" corner pockets. All I meant to say in the last post was that in order to find the maximum that you can throw a ball and keep the CB on line, you need to hit the thickest part of the pocket. Hitting the middle or thinnest will not demonstrate your maximum throw. Hard to describe in words. And, I'm describing the way he plays, I've not achieved that level.

 

[Renegade_56]

Is that St. Louis? Actually, I will be visiting my son in early August. Do you also play at Cue and Cushion like OnePocketJohn?
I have a 9' table with 4.5" pockets. My teacher's 9' table is has 4.75" corner pockets. All I meant to say in the last post was that in order to find the maximum that you can throw a ball and keep the CB on line, you need to hit the thickest part of the pocket. Hitting the middle or thinnest will not demonstrate your maximum throw. Hard to describe in words. And, I'm describing the way he plays, I've not achieved that level.

So you are saying the key to playing well is the ability to cheat the pocket? I'm pretty sure there is more Robin has not told you yet.