How do you play this?

[AuntyDan]

The other move I can see that no-one has mentioned would be playing the deliberate foul by hitting the 8 very thin and trying to send it up-table next to the 10 ball. (This assumes it is not some kind of loss-of-game foul to hit the 8 first under your league's rules, it is fine under BCA rules.)

If you can get it in the reasonably large position zone where the 10 blocks the left corner pocket your opponent will have a fairly tough position play from the 1 to the 8 even with ball in hand. It might not allow you to finish the rack in that inning but in a handicapped format against a C-player or less you might avoid almost automatic loss of game if you gave them ball in hand by missing the kick shot.

 

[donny mills]

4 rails you might even kick it in the side. I remember shooting this shot recently in a match. Im gonna go try it tonight. I would def bet id hit it 8 out of ten and get a rail. At that angle i think the 10 is too big to miss.

 

[Texas Prez]

The other move I can see that no-one has mentioned would be playing the deliberate foul by hitting the 8 very thin and trying to send it up-table next to the 10 ball. (This assumes it is not some kind of loss-of-game foul to hit the 8 first under your league's rules, it is fine under BCA rules.)

If you can get it in the reasonably large position zone where the 10 blocks the left corner pocket your opponent will have a fairly tough position play from the 1 to the 8 even with ball in hand. It might not allow you to finish the rack in that inning but in a handicapped format against a C-player or less you might avoid almost automatic loss of game if you gave them ball in hand by missing the kick shot.

The cueball was about a centimeter away from the eight at an angle, I really thought about this one. But because the one was off the rail and I didn't have the angle to hit the eight into the ten it was a give away giving him ball in hand.

 

[AuntyDan]

Fair enough. I was told a long time ago that the difference between a good player and a great player is not how they play an individual shot but how many different ways they can think of to play it.

 

[eyesjr]

...

If it worked out...theres NO argumen against success!! You made a good choice if you chose what you felt you could execute at that time. keep it up!!

These were tournament tables so the cloth played really fast and the cushions were extremely fast. Their speed made them very difficult to predict. Because this was a do-or-die situation and I wanted to eliminate as many variables as possible I decided on a one-rail kick with a lot of left. I missed it by a centimeter and scratched in the corner pocket but I felt this was my best attempt at hitting the ten, hitting a rail, and then leaving him with the worst shot possible, all the while having an opportunity to pocket the ten and have a position on the eight. Tough out but I feel I gave the best effort and made the best decision possible considering the circumstances.

CueTable Help

 

[JoeyA]

4 rails you might even kick it in the side. I remember shooting this shot recently in a match. Im gonna go try it tonight. I would def bet id hit it 8 out of ten and get a rail. At that angle i think the 10 is too big to miss.

OK Donny.

How'd it go? 4 rails is a lot of rails but I know you have a chance of hitting it as often as you expect, especially after getting a couple of shots at it. To be fair, hitting a four railer never having seen or tried the shot before, I would be hard pressed to hit it over 50 per cent of the time. How'd you do?

BTW, congratulations on that nice finish a couple of weeks ago. 5th place against those other champions is nothing to sneeze at.

Steve Mizerak Championship
November 13 - 16, 2008
Hard Rock Casino
Hollywood, Fl

Also, I am curious if and how you are going to do what, to move your game up another notch. You have been playing rather well all year and seem to be a threat to snap off any tournament you play in.

Thanks,
JoeyA

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Okay so its TAP Nationals, your team is tied with matches won with your opponents and it comes down to a sudden death rack to advance your team to the finals.

So a high pressure situation in eight-ball, and you are trying to hit the ten-ball.

CueTable Help

What do you do???

And remember this is on a seven-foot table so the one takes up the straight two-rail kick.

I think a lot of people are forgetting what the original post was about. We're talking about a 7-foot table here so the diagram isn't precise. You have to imagine the balls are significantly bigger, the pockets are bigger and that a two rail kick simply doesn't exist.

With that said, the 1-rail kick has to be the way to go. You can't go any other way because NO OTHER WAY gives you as predictable chance at pocketing the 10-ball which is the only way you're going to win here. You can HOPE if you miss, you'll leave him tough but really, you want to make that 10-ball and get out.

I agree with Neil and the OP's decision. One rail. Hope to kick that 10-ball right in the pocket. You do this, no matter what happens, you can walk away from that game knowing you gave yourself a chance to win.

 

[gcgaryyoyo]

not sure if the 2-rail kicking would work if that was an bar table.
if not, the 3 railer would be my choice, but not the 4 railer b/c you'd have to hit it hard enough to have the 10 ball touch another rail (likely to be the upside rail) and you could lose control. to the original poster, how did you put a lot of left, as you would described what you did? cuz your diagram shows that you put a ton of right in order to hit it one rail.

 

[Texas Prez]

not sure if the 2-rail kicking would work if that was an bar table.
if not, the 3 railer would be my choice, but not the 4 railer b/c you'd have to hit it hard enough to have the 10 ball touch another rail (likely to be the upside rail) and you could lose control. to the original poster, how did you put a lot of left, as you would described what you did? cuz your diagram shows that you put a ton of right in order to hit it one rail.

If I said left I meant right.... just typing fast probably.

 

[donny mills]

OK Donny.

How'd it go? 4 rails is a lot of rails but I know you have a chance of hitting it as often as you expect, especially after getting a couple of shots at it. To be fair, hitting a four railer never having seen or tried the shot before, I would be hard pressed to hit it over 50 per cent of the time. How'd you do?

BTW, congratulations on that nice finish a couple of weeks ago. 5th place against those other champions is nothing to sneeze at.

Steve Mizerak Championship
November 13 - 16, 2008
Hard Rock Casino
Hollywood, Fl

Also, I am curious if and how you are going to do what, to move your game up another notch. You have been playing rather well all year and seem to be a threat to snap off any tournament you play in.

Thanks,
JoeyA

I tried it 3 times tonight and I made a good hit all 3 times, but I did this on a 9footer so im not sure if it would work on a 7footer. You just kick to the end rail and then it hits before the side pocket and then 2 rails out of the corner.

Thanks! I guess 5th place isn't bad. I lost to svb hill hill even though on az it said I lost 8-5. Anyways that was the 2nd worst match I played the whole tournament and shouldve won, he almost scratched twice on the final game. I never played svb before and I didn't feel confident playing him.

I need more tournament confidence, slow rolling center ball shots, and inside english shots.

 

[tjlmbklr]

Sorry I am a "wei" amateur. I tried using the bar box software but that'll have to be learned another day. I believe this is the 4 rail shot that everyone is talking about. The aim point is through Diamond 2-1/2. According to Tom Rossman that would actually be "6" (top right pocket being "#1" for the 2 rail system).

English: High with 1-1/4 tip running.

Provided the table is playing right a good hit will be behind the 10. A bad hit if any may send the CB back towards the 1 if you even hit the 10.

CueTable Help

 

[Russ Chewning]

Sorry I am a "wei" amateur. I tried using the bar box software but that'll have to be learned another day. I believe this is the 4 rail shot that everyone is talking about. The aim point is through Diamond 2-1/2. According to Tom Rossman that would actually be "6" (top right pocket being "#1" for the 2 rail system).

English: High with 1-1/4 tip running.

Provided the table is playing right a good hit will be behind the 10. A bad hit if any may send the CB back towards the 1.

CueTable Help

Now that I see the 4 railer diagram, I don't like it.

If the 4 railer hits the 10 dead in the face, it is a foul unless the CB is struck hard enough to send the 10 another 4-5 feet. So, if you choose that speed and get anything other than a dead-in-the-face hit, you will be selling out the majority of the time by sliding off the back side of the 10 towards the 8, leaving a straight in shot on the 1.

Then again, it is a fairly easy hit, and one sometimes has to just rely on the other guy to lose the game.

Russ

 

[JoeyA]

Now that I see the 4 railer diagram, I don't like it.

If the 4 railer hits the 10 dead in the face, it is a foul unless the CB is struck hard enough to send the 10 another 4-5 feet. So, if you choose that speed and get anything other than a dead-in-the-face hit, you will be selling out the majority of the time by sliding off the back side of the 10 towards the 8, leaving a straight in shot on the 1.

Then again, it is a fairly easy hit, and one sometimes has to just rely on the other guy to lose the game.

Russ

YO "scumbag"! :grin-square: How are you doing? R U back in the Middle East. Where at?
Thanks,
JoeyA

 

[donny mills]

Now that I see the 4 railer diagram, I don't like it.

If the 4 railer hits the 10 dead in the face, it is a foul unless the CB is struck hard enough to send the 10 another 4-5 feet. So, if you choose that speed and get anything other than a dead-in-the-face hit, you will be selling out the majority of the time by sliding off the back side of the 10 towards the 8, leaving a straight in shot on the 1.

Then again, it is a fairly easy hit, and one sometimes has to just rely on the other guy to lose the game.

Russ

I made a good hit every time I shot it and yes I did hit it with a little speed. Now remember I'm in florida with a little spring to the rails.

After shooting it a few times I couldn't dream of missing it unless I miscued. I highly doubt there is a more consistent way of hitting this then 4 rails.

 

[donny mills]

Now that I see the 4 railer diagram, I don't like it.

If the 4 railer hits the 10 dead in the face, it is a foul unless the CB is struck hard enough to send the 10 another 4-5 feet. So, if you choose that speed and get anything other than a dead-in-the-face hit, you will be selling out the majority of the time by sliding off the back side of the 10 towards the 8, leaving a straight in shot on the 1.

Then again, it is a fairly easy hit, and one sometimes has to just rely on the other guy to lose the game.

Russ

It's not easy to hit it full in the face so far.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I made a good hit every time I shot it and yes I did hit it with a little speed. Now remember I'm in florida with a little spring to the rails.

After shooting it a few times I couldn't dream of missing it unless I miscued. I highly doubt there is a more consistent way of hitting this then 4 rails.

I know you're one of the better players from Florida so I'm actually fascinated to tap your brain here. Your answer suggests making a legal hit is of the utmost importance. By kicking 1 rail, I'm suggesting you really have to take advantage of the nearby pocket even if it means a diminished return in making a legal hit. In the few times you shot it four rails, did you achieve a layout that might've won you the game?

I know there are times where you roll the dice and take your chances and go with the legal hit. Do you think this is one of those scenarios? Also, do you think you would still go 4 rails if this were a barbox? On a 9-foot table, this is a challenging kick no matter which way you go but on a barbox, this ball is gonna look a bit bigger.


EDIT: I want to add, if I'm wrong on what I think you're thinking, please correct me. My goal, more than anything, is to try and figure out what your intentions are with your shot and why you would choose not to go another way.

 

[donny mills]

I know you're one of the better players from Florida so I'm actually fascinated to tap your brain here. Your answer suggests making a legal hit is of the utmost importance. By kicking 1 rail, I'm suggesting you really have to take advantage of the nearby pocket even if it means a diminished return in making a legal hit. In the few times you shot it four rails, did you achieve a layout that might've won you the game?

I know there are times where you roll the dice and take your chances and go with the legal hit. Do you think this is one of those scenarios? Also, do you think you would still go 4 rails if this were a barbox? On a 9-foot table, this is a challenging kick no matter which way you go but on a barbox, this ball is gonna look a bit bigger.


EDIT: I want to add, if I'm wrong on what I think you're thinking, please correct me. My goal, more than anything, is to try and figure out what your intentions are with your shot and why you would choose not to go another way.

I would chose to go 4 rails on the 9footer because I know I'm going to make a good hit because I feel like I have a bigger target going 4 rails. The first time I shot it the 10 ball went towards the side and the qball went behind the one. I'm just comfortable shooting it like this on a big table but I'm not sure about a 7footer.

So the reason why I would chose this is because the 2 railer you have to be too accurate and the 4 railer you dont have to be as accurate.

 

[JoeyA]

I would chose to go 4 rails on the 9footer because I know I'm going to make a good hit because I feel like I have a bigger target going 4 rails. The first time I shot it the 10 ball went towards the side and the qball went behind the one. I'm just comfortable shooting it like this on a big table but I'm not sure about a 7footer.

So the reason why I would chose this is because the 2 railer you have to be too accurate and the 4 railer you dont have to be as accurate.

I like your answers to Jude's question and while I see where some people would want to hit the two railer, I have to go with your judgment and maybe practice shooting the shot 2 & 4 rails a bit more for my own confirmation.
JoeyA

 

[Neil]

................

 

[Texas Prez]

I do agree that it is an easier hit going four rails.But, I also feel that you have to hit it much harder, and aren't likely to make it anywhere. Which means you just made a good hit to sell out.

That is why I chose the one rail kick. It's a much harder hit, but I have a good chance to make the ball if I hit it. Which means game over for me. I believe in always giving myself a chance to win, and in this case, on a barbox, I still think you have to go for the make.

This was my thought in the original situation...people also need to remember; this is at TAP Nationals...it isn't like playing in your game-room....you miss, he IS out...and if you leave any shot, most likely he is out...a four-rail kick isn't your best chance of winning; it is merely your best chance to hit the ten.