How hard do you break?

[DEGAMO88]

Years ago in a BD article, George Breedlove, one of pbt's best breakers at the time, mentioned that he didn't break the balls with his hardest stroke. Instead, he said he broke the balls at roughly 75-80%. He also mentioned at one time that while playing Buddy, he dislocated his shoulder after a break and asked Buddy to pop it back in, which he declined to do. In another forum years ago, I remember reading about a match between Charlie Williams and Mizerak in which Charlie broke the balls harder than usual, even though he was losing the cueball, but still won the match anyways. So the questions are, how hard do you break the balls, what are the results, and what determines how hard you break them?

 

[Snapshot9]

Question ...

First, Miz is up in age some, and I didn't think Charlie Williams was
that old to where they could have played 'years ago'. Perhaps
I am wrong, but I know Miz was like 38 before he ever turned
Pro, and was a teacher before that.

 

[Tbeaux]

Depends on the game being played (rack and if break position is restricted).
Generally I'd say I break at about 75%. If the results are good I continue to break at that %, if results suck I'll start breaking harder out of frustration (usually doesn't help). I'm 6'3" 200+lbs so sometimes in 9-ball I find I need to break softer to keep the balls on the table.

Terry

 

[Williebetmore]

Years ago in a BD article, George Breedlove, one of pbt's best breakers at the time, mentioned that he didn't break the balls with his hardest stroke. Instead, he said he broke the balls at roughly 75-80%. ?

Dega,
In case you missed the previous discussion; at a pool school several of the forum members attended earlier this year, there were 2 radar guns (for confirmation), and several of the pro's and students were measured.

George Breedlove would only agree to 2 tries. The first was 34 MPH, the second was an incredible 37 MPH (his previous lifetime best was 34). On neither break did he make a ball (though ALL of the object balls were moved to the head half of the table)!!!!!! His break in tournaments is about 26 MPH which he can control quite well. Helena Thornfeldt was the fastest of the females present at 21 MPH.

 

[shanesinnott]

George Breedlove would only agree to 2 tries. The first was 34 MPH, the second was an incredible 37 MPH (his previous lifetime best was 34).

WOW!

37 MPH is an incredible speed...so incredible, I don't believe it. Sorry!

 

[Williebetmore]

WOW!

37 MPH is an incredible speed...so incredible, I don't believe it. Sorry!

Shane,
I don't blame you. However, present were Mark Wilson and Jerry Briesath (operating the 2 radar guns, one from behind, one from in front - both agreed), Jeanette Lee, Helena Thornfeldt, Monica Webb, Nesli O'Hare. In addition, I was present along with forum members zeeder and Woody_768. Ask any of them if you don't believe me. I think George was surprised. The 2 highest speeds he had ever seen were his own previous 34 and a 35 by Rodney Morris. Maybe Woody or Zach will weigh in with their recollection (though I will tell you if I wanted to B.S. on the internet I would just give up - how lame is that?????).

 

[Timberly]

what determines how hard you break them?

I was at a Tiger Planet Pool tourney not too long ago and Shawn Putnam and Mike Davis were playing against each other. Both started out breaking hard but they weren't making anything. Then they started cutting it back a little bit until they found the right speed. I noticed Shawn doing the same thing at a tourney in Hagerstown. The rail was right by the tables (great seats for tourneys there) and during practice Shawn was again not making balls by breaking hard. This being practice, he would talk to those of us along the rail and he was discussing the break. He eventually cut it back to about 75% and started making balls. So, after ALL this talk, what I'm trying to say is that it appears that the table itself is the determining factor. I could be wrong (I'm a girl that doesn't shoot anymore, what do I know) but from what I've been able to gather from watching some of the pro's is that at least some of them let the table decide. The rack also has something to do with it, but that's a whole other thread. LOL

 

[zeeder]

Shane,
I don't blame you. However, present were Mark Wilson and Jerry Briesath (operating the 2 radar guns, one from behind, one from in front - both agreed), Jeanette Lee, Helena Thornfeldt, Monica Webb, Nesli O'Hare. In addition, I was present along with forum members zeeder and Woody_768. Ask any of them if you don't believe me. I think George was surprised. The 2 highest speeds he had ever seen were his own previous 34 and a 35 by Rodney Morris. Maybe Woody or Zach will weigh in with their recollection (though I will tell you if I wanted to B.S. on the internet I would just give up - how lame is that?????).

This is a fact. I was the second highest male at a meager 21-22mph break...lol. George Breedlove has an unbelievably impressive power stroke. Not to mention his one-handed, behind-the-back wing shot! Mind boggeling to say the least.

 

[sjm]

First, Miz is up in age some, and I didn't think Charlie Williams was that old to where they could have played 'years ago'. Perhaps
I am wrong, but I know Miz was like 38 before he ever turned
Pro, and was a teacher before that.

This is in error. Miz turned pro in the late 1960's. He won his first important title at the Stardust Open in 1969 at, I believe as a 24 year old. He won his first US Open Straight Pool Championship in 1970, I believe at the age of 25. You are right about the teacher part, though. Steve was a seventh grade teacher in New Jersey while he was a pro pool player.

 

[DEGAMO88]

Snapshot, I think you're showing your age. I should have prefaced with what I said regarding Charlie's match with Mizerak as being 2 or 3 years ago. To us, the under 35 crowd, years ago is simply that. To you, years ago may seem like an eternity, but to us, it's just that. (just kidding)

 

[StevenPWaldon]

I typically break at around 80%. Anything more than that, and position isn't always guaranteed. I've been fortunate enough to take a few shots with a radar on me, and a 100% power break for me is 23 mph. If I'm breaking well a certain day, I'll put 100% (so long as the cue stays planted in center table). But this is of course a rarity. Any other day, 80%

Not bad for a guy who's only 5'7" and 135#.

 

[Mike Templeton]

Years ago in a BD article, George Breedlove, one of pbt's best breakers at the time, mentioned that he didn't break the balls with his hardest stroke. Instead, he said he broke the balls at roughly 75-80%. He also mentioned at one time that while playing Buddy, he dislocated his shoulder after a break and asked Buddy to pop it back in, which he declined to do. In another forum years ago, I remember reading about a match between Charlie Williams and Mizerak in which Charlie broke the balls harder than usual, even though he was losing the cueball, but still won the match anyways. So the questions are, how hard do you break the balls, what are the results, and what determines how hard you break them?

I always tried all of the advice I've received, but...........

I tried the 75%-80% theory for years. I either never consistently made a ball, or still couldn't control the cue ball. I get beat more by my opponent breaking better than for any other reason.

Recently (in the past 4 months or so), I have been just raring back and pile driving the break with every ounce of force that I have. I am not scratching anymore than usual, and I am making a ball on the break at least 50% more. I don't control the cue ball much worse either. I will have to admit that I have changed my stance a little bit. I have moved my front foot more parallel to the stroke, as advocated by CeeBee in his new Break Book, and this seems to have given me a more free swing and more power in my break.

I'm not saying that this is the correct way for everyone, but I think that there comes a time when you have to resort to unpopular methods if none of the standard break instruction works. It certainly can't hurt to give it a try for a while. It has certainly improved my break more than anything I have ever tried.

Mike

 

[drivermaker]

So, after ALL this talk, what I'm trying to say is that it appears that the table itself is the determining factor. I could be wrong (I'm a girl that doesn't shoot anymore, what do I know) but from what I've been able to gather from watching some of the pro's is that at least some of them let the table decide.

For a chick that doesn't shoot anymore, that was a VERY astute answer. (it was also an astute answer for a chick that DOES shoot, or a guy for that matter) I think the table really has a lot to do with it and that same table can change from day to day. (Then again maybe it's US that changes from day to day more than the table)

But after finding that magic hot spot to break from and if the table is working, I love nothing more than going after it 100% and hearing an explosion and seeing balls burst open. If they're not dropping, that's another story and you just have to gear back and find the speed that does work.

The female that I'm most impressed with is Tiffany Nelson. She has those long loose arms that flow back and forth in perfect form, and when she gets to her last back stroke before acceleration forward, there's a pause at the end and a beautiful transference of her weight onto her left side that starts everything into motion with a tremendous surge of power. Her weight transfer reminds me of a PGA golfer making the transition at the top of their swing with the lower body moving first and pulling everything else into the hit.
I think she has the best break form in the WPBA.

 

[poolbiz420]

Depending how confident i'm feeling is how hard i'm breaking, if i'm feeling good i'm crushing the rack. I have not had the privalige of using a radar, everyone in town and players on the Midwest Fury Tour say i have a big break though. I actually don't know if i want to see my break on radar cause it's probably like 11 MPH!!

 

[DrCue'sProtege]

i was surprised at the speeds that i break. surprised in the wrong direction, that is.

when i was with Mark Wilson last december we started talking about the break shot and he pulled his radar gun out and i broke 3 times. the first was about 16 MPH, which i thought would have been faster. so, the 2nd time i put some more effort into the break, and got up to about 17.5 MPH. the last time i hit them about as hard as i thought i could and still control the cue ball, and it was about 19 MPH. i would have never guessed i was so slow.

however, on that particular table, i made a ball all 3 times if i recall correctly. and guess what else? yep, you guessed it - ALL 3 TIMES I HAD NO SHOT, AND NO CHANCE OF RUNNING THE RACK!!!

imagine that.

DCP

 

[Egg McDogit]

about 23-25mph on my paltry 'power' break. I don't use that break often though...usually just stroke my break with my normal stroke

 

[deadstroke32]

I was at a Tiger Planet Pool tourney not too long ago and Shawn Putnam and Mike Davis were playing against each other. Both started out breaking hard but they weren't making anything. Then they started cutting it back a little bit until they found the right speed. I noticed Shawn doing the same thing at a tourney in Hagerstown. The rail was right by the tables (great seats for tourneys there) and during practice Shawn was again not making balls by breaking hard. This being practice, he would talk to those of us along the rail and he was discussing the break. He eventually cut it back to about 75% and started making balls. So, after ALL this talk, what I'm trying to say is that it appears that the table itself is the determining factor. I could be wrong (I'm a girl that doesn't shoot anymore, what do I know) but from what I've been able to gather from watching some of the pro's is that at least some of them let the table decide. The rack also has something to do with it, but that's a whole other thread. LOL

Hay timberly
I'm about as big both u them and when i start breakin as hard as thay do i'll never make a ball .But when i come off the power ,I'll make a lot more .ball.But at the SBE in 99 i did a breakin thing with a full rack and was clocked at 27 mph hittin my almost hardest..( fear of breakin something ). the hardest thing from me was holdin the rock.and i was 210 lbs..
Now at 280 lbs it jus don't work no more.Look out for flyin CB --->>>>

 

[chefjeff]

Mike Sigel talks about this in the latest issue of BD.

Jeff Livingston

 

[Billy_Bob]

I find that I make more balls if I back away on the speed of my break.

But note that I am using a 17.5 oz breaking cue and I can get a *lot* of speed with this cue due to its light weight.

If I'm using a heavier breaking cue, I don't need to back off on the speed as much.

 

[dooziexx]

Years ago in a BD article, George Breedlove, one of pbt's best breakers at the time, mentioned that he didn't break the balls with his hardest stroke. Instead, he said he broke the balls at roughly 75-80%. He also mentioned at one time that while playing Buddy, he dislocated his shoulder after a break and asked Buddy to pop it back in, which he declined to do. In another forum years ago, I remember reading about a match between Charlie Williams and Mizerak in which Charlie broke the balls harder than usual, even though he was losing the cueball, but still won the match anyways. So the questions are, how hard do you break the balls, what are the results, and what determines how hard you break them?

For me it all depends on how good Im hitting the head ball. I usually start by breaking at about 70-75% speed. If Im hitting them solid, then I will slowly increase my break speed. I will not sacrifice accuracy for power...