How Hard Is It to Remove a Pin

Mike Templeton

Mike Templeton

Confidence........
Silver Member
I just received a nice custom cue with a 3/8 joint pin. The butt is a tad long, and the ring at the joint is about 1 inch (also a little long). I have a Cuesmith lathe and have done cue repair for a long time, but I've never replaced a pin. I'd like to remove the pin, cut about a half inch off the butt at the joint, and then replace the pin. I have a new 3/8-10 pin so it doesn't matter if I mess up the one I am removing.

How hard is it to remove and replace the pin, and how is it done? I've heard that I need to heat the pin but I'm not sure.

Thanks,
Mike
 
Mike Templeton said:
I just received a nice custom cue with a 3/8 joint pin. The butt is a tad long, and the ring at the joint is about 1 inch (also a little long). I have a Cuesmith lathe and have done cue repair for a long time, but I've never replaced a pin. I'd like to remove the pin, cut about a half inch off the butt at the joint, and then replace the pin. I have a new 3/8-10 pin so it doesn't matter if I mess up the one I am removing.

How hard is it to remove and replace the pin, and how is it done? I've heard that I need to heat the pin but I'm not sure.

Thanks,
Mike
Click to expand...

What kind of pin? You have to get the pin red hot, usually 3 or 4 times to get the glue to release. The problem is that in so doing you may melt the joint, burn the wood inside the cue or damage the finish. I put a piece of 1/16" thick aluminum sheet about 4" in diameter on the pin to reflect a lot of the heat and wrap a water soaked rag around the joint to try to keep it cool. With the cue in the lathe with some rubber sheeting that grabs real well rapped around the cue so that the chuck doesn't have to be tightened where it might mar the finish. I use vise-grips on the pin when it gets red hot and try to work it back and forth until it breaks loose and can be screwed out. This heating up and then cooling may have to be done 2 or 3 times so that the back of the pin gets hot enough to melt the glue.

Years ago on rec.sport billiard Thomas Wayne said the correct way to remove a pin without damaging the cue is to center drill the pin and then drilling about a 1/8 or 3/16 hole about 2 inch deep into the pin, then take the next size larger drill and drill and enlarge that hole about an 1.5 deep. Now stop the lathe and reverse this drill bit in the chuck and insert that stem into the hole. Now put the lathe in reverse and with your tail stock not locked on the bed, push the tail stock toward the cue so that the drill bit stem in the hole causes a lot of friction causing the pin and the bit to get very hot. Once you see that it is very hot release the pressure on the tail stock so that the friction is not so bad which cools the pin and bit welding themselves together and screwing the pin out slicker than elephant snot.

Sounds complicated but I tried it a couple of times and it did work.

Dick
 
I do pretty much the same thing Dick does, except I don't hold the cue in a lathe. I clamp my table mounted vise down onto the pin of the cue. Then I set a small torch up hitting the end of the pin. I also wrap that area of the cue with cold wash rags. Then I keep grabbing the cue and trying to turn the forearm until the pin turns out. By checking it every few seconds I know exactly when the glue melts enough for it to release. It only takes a few minutes to get the pin out.
There is a tool that will heat the pin up in a few seconds which allows you to get the pin out without letting the cue get too hot. But they are hundreds of dollars and for what few I have needed to remove I have not broke down and bought one.
 
Just had to pull out one myself. Go gently and be ready to work quick when the glue lets go.

IMAG0562.jpg
 
Along with the fusion-welding trick mentioned above, I also advised taking a piece of plastic rod (acetal, PVC, or what have you...) and taper-boring it to fit the cue fairly precisely at the joint end. Then wind a single layer of double-stick carpet tape around the joint, wet it with naptha (or mineral spirits, or lighter fluid) and shove the plastic piece on until it jams.

Let the entire assembly sit overnight until the mild solvent to evaporates off, leaving the sacrificial plastic piece "glued" firmly in place. [FYI, this process was inspired by the method used for bonding golf grips to golf clubs]. When the cue and plastic piece have "become one" you can put the cue between centers and turn the outside of the plastic piece true, giving you a very easy and reliable way to re-center the cue in the lathe after you've wrestled the pin out.

You'll want to do this because the hole left behind when a pin has been forcefully removed is not always the prettiest thing in the world. Being able to accurately go in with a small boring bar, chasing tap, or even bore and plug the end of the cue is a wonderful thing, and if you have to do any of these things you'll be damn glad you've got that plastic collar to grab onto and center up with.

When the new pin is in and you're ready to clean up the rest of the cue, just turn off the plastic piece until you're almost down to the tape. Now the same solvent you used before can be wicked into the cue/plastic seam and it should just about slide right off into your hand. Way, WAY easier than pulling a pin and THEN trying to center up the cue for any additional internal work required...

TW
 
Aren't most pins replaced because the customer smashed his cue on the table, causing the pin to bend? If so, how can you center drill the pin for the drill bit-welding removal method, or use the pin with a center in order to turn true a temporary collar at the joint?

I had seen the post by Thomas Wayne somewhere years ago, and was curious to know the answer then...

If my reasoning is correct, and this method can't be used on bent/damaged pins then what would be the reason to remove a good pin?

Note, I'm just curious about this pin removal method, not trying to start anything...
 
Thomas Wayne said:
Along with the fusion-welding trick mentioned above, I also advised taking a piece of plastic rod (acetal, PVC, or what have you...) and taper-boring it to fit the cue fairly precisely at the joint end. Then wind a single layer of double-stick carpet tape around the joint, wet it with naptha (or mineral spirits, or lighter fluid) and shove the plastic piece on until it jams.

Let the entire assembly sit overnight until the mild solvent to evaporates off, leaving the sacrificial plastic piece "glued" firmly in place. [FYI, this process was inspired by the method used for bonding golf grips to golf clubs]. When the cue and plastic piece have "become one" you can put the cue between centers and turn the outside of the plastic piece true, giving you a very easy and reliable way to re-center the cue in the lathe after you've wrestled the pin out.

You'll want to do this because the hole left behind when a pin has been forcefully removed is not always the prettiest thing in the world. Being able to accurately go in with a small boring bar, chasing tap, or even bore and plug the end of the cue is a wonderful thing, and if you have to do any of these things you'll be damn glad you've got that plastic collar to grab onto and center up with.

When the new pin is in and you're ready to clean up the rest of the cue, just turn off the plastic piece until you're almost down to the tape. Now the same solvent you used before can be wicked into the cue/plastic seam and it should just about slide right off into your hand. Way, WAY easier than pulling a pin and THEN trying to center up the cue for any additional internal work required...

TW
Click to expand...

The real advantage to doing this is it strengthens the cue at the joint area while you muscle on it to get the pin out without damaging the finish or handle.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Aren't most pins replaced because the customer smashed his cue on the table, causing the pin to bend? If so, how can you center drill the pin for the drill bit-welding removal method, or use the pin with a center in order to turn true a temporary collar at the joint?
Click to expand...

Accepting your proclamation of innocent curiosity at face value, I'll be happy to edumacate you on the particulars.

1) You can "center drill" anything - a center drill is simply the name of a tool. The phrase doesn't mean you're restricted to only drilling a hole in the exact center of anything in particular, it means you're creating a sort of "pilot hole" for longer, larger drills to come;

2) By driving the cue from the pin end, and using a chuck that has an adjustable center (i.e., 4-jaw, "Adjust-a-tru", etc) - assuming the butt end has (or can accept) a center hole for the tailstock - it's really rather easy to center up a bent-pin cue for the purpose of turning down the temporary plastic work collar, as described above.

iusedtoberich said:
[...]

If my reasoning is correct, and this method can't be used on bent/damaged pins then what would be the reason to remove a good pin?

[...]
Click to expand...

Turns out your reasoning isn't correct. I'm reminded of something my father once told me, right before showing me how to do something I thought wouldn't work: "Just because you don't know how to do it, son, doesn't mean it can't be done."

TW

 
Mike Templeton said:
I just received a nice custom cue with a 3/8 joint pin. The butt is a tad long, and the ring at the joint is about 1 inch (also a little long). I have a Cuesmith lathe and have done cue repair for a long time, but I've never replaced a pin. I'd like to remove the pin, cut about a half inch off the butt at the joint, and then replace the pin. I have a new 3/8-10 pin so it doesn't matter if I mess up the one I am removing.

How hard is it to remove and replace the pin, and how is it done? I've heard that I need to heat the pin but I'm not sure.

Thanks,
Mike
Click to expand...

Personally, I heat the pin to cherry red while the cue is Pin upwards, then shut off the torch and then point the cue 'pin down' and let the heat traverse the length of the pin as heat rises, then stick the pin into a vise and tighten tightly, then using a rubberized pad, grasp the forearm and twist both ways and see if it releases. Usually it does on the first try, if not then I try more heat and do it again. Then it becomes a chucking it up in the deluxe and making sure it runs true. Then it's bore it, plug it, then drill and tap and reinstall a new one.
It's all about letting the heat get to all the pin length thereby also the whole glue joint, and then having enough leverage to get it to break loose and twist out, keeping in mind that some cuemakers and production companies are grinding a flat on the bottom of the pin, and therefore aren't as easily removered without substantial force after a lot more heat than normal..
Good luck,
Dave
 
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Dave38 said:
Personally, I heat the pin to cherry red while the cue is Pin upwards, then shut off the torch and then point the cue 'pin down' and let the heat traverse the length of the pin as heat rises, then stick the pin into a vise and tighten tightly, then using a rubberized pad, grasp the forearm and twist both ways and see if it releases. Usually it does on the first try, if not then I try more heat and do it again. Then it becomes a chucking it up in the deluxe and making sure it runs true. Then it's bore it, plug it, then drill and tap and reinstall a new one.
It's all about letting the heat get to all the pin length thereby also the whole glue joint, and then having enough leverage to get it to break loose and twist out, keeping in mind that some cuemakers and production companies are grinding a flat on the bottom of the pin, and therefore aren't as easily removered without substantial force after a lot more heat than normal..
Good luck,
Dave
Click to expand...

For the last year or two about the only time I pull a pin is to because the owner wants a different thread or a lighter pin. I have found it much easier to straighten a pin than to replace.

Dick
 
Thomas Wayne said:


Accepting your proclamation of innocent curiosity at face value, I'll be happy to edumacate you on the particulars.

1) You can "center drill" anything - a center drill is simply the name of a tool. The phrase doesn't mean you're restricted to only drilling a hole in the exact center of anything in particular, it means you're creating a sort of "pilot hole" for longer, larger drills to come;

2) By driving the cue from the pin end, and using a chuck that has an adjustable center (i.e., 4-jaw, "Adjust-a-tru", etc) - assuming the butt end has (or can accept) a center hole for the tailstock - it's really rather easy to center up a bent-pin cue for the purpose of turning down the temporary plastic work collar, as described above.



Turns out your reasoning isn't correct. I'm reminded of something my father once told me, right before showing me how to do something I thought wouldn't work: "Just because you don't know how to do it, son, doesn't mean it can't be done."

TW
Click to expand...

Thank you for answering. That makes sense to use an independent chuck in the way you described.
 
rhncue said:
For the last year or two about the only time I pull a pin is to because the owner wants a different thread or a lighter pin. I have found it much easier to straighten a pin than to replace.

Dick
Click to expand...

Yeah, I forgot to mention those alternate reasons for replacing a pin, but they do come up now and again.

When the Uni-lock pin/insert combo was first released several customers opted to replace a standard 5/16-14 pin with the "latest greatest", and it was nice to be able to do such invasive surgery without negatively impacting the exterior of the finished cue.

TW
 
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Thomas Wayne said:
Along with the fusion-welding trick mentioned above, I also advised taking a piece of plastic rod (acetal, PVC, or what have you...) and taper-boring it to fit the cue fairly precisely at the joint end. Then wind a single layer of double-stick carpet tape around the joint, wet it with naptha (or mineral spirits, or lighter fluid) and shove the plastic piece on until it jams.

Let the entire assembly sit overnight until the mild solvent to evaporates off, leaving the sacrificial plastic piece "glued" firmly in place. [FYI, this process was inspired by the method used for bonding golf grips to golf clubs]. When the cue and plastic piece have "become one" you can put the cue between centers and turn the outside of the plastic piece true, giving you a very easy and reliable way to re-center the cue in the lathe after you've wrestled the pin out.

You'll want to do this because the hole left behind when a pin has been forcefully removed is not always the prettiest thing in the world. Being able to accurately go in with a small boring bar, chasing tap, or even bore and plug the end of the cue is a wonderful thing, and if you have to do any of these things you'll be damn glad you've got that plastic collar to grab onto and center up with.

When the new pin is in and you're ready to clean up the rest of the cue, just turn off the plastic piece until you're almost down to the tape. Now the same solvent you used before can be wicked into the cue/plastic seam and it should just about slide right off into your hand. Way, WAY easier than pulling a pin and THEN trying to center up the cue for any additional internal work required...

TW
Click to expand...
Hey man I'm sorry to ask but do you by chance have pics of this process?
 
Replacing a pin can be very quick or it can be a real pain in the you know what..
I do jobs like that with such regularity that I have invested in a induction heater, usually goes pretty quick and painless, obviously I can't use that on non magnetic materials, so then I have to use the torch, soldering iron or today, the last option; drill the pin out. The last Uni-loc pins I have had the pleasure of removing has not reacted to heat at all. I think Predator now uses Hysol or some type of epoxy with a very high melting temperature.
 
I fold up a paper towel and tape it to the joint and get it wet with cold water. Heat the pin a little bit, then clamp it tight in my bench vise and twist the cue with my hands. Repeating the process until it comes out.
I hit it with compressed air as soon as I get the pin loose to help cool the cue back down.
McDermott uses some kind of glue that takes a LOT of heat to break down. The pins in most cues come out after a couple of rounds of heat. Every time I do a McDermott, I swear I will never do another one.
 
Another challenge is that some cues, like a VIking I worked on recently, are not wood all the way to the joint. This one, the last inch or so up to the joint was Juma or some other plastic. Getting the pin heated sufficiently to break the glue ond down in the threaded section with deforming the nose of the cue was a chore.
Gary
 
Interesting thread all the same,
I'm curious if he was just wanting to shorten the joint collar and the pin is good, couldn't you just turn down the collar and clean up the pin. Maybe have to cut the pin down and use a file to reshape the end. Then there's no need to heat and remove?
 
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