How important are aiming methods really?

JLW

JLW

Dunder Mifflin Salesman
Silver Member
I have seen a lot of discussion on this board dedicated to the subject of aiming methods- ghost ball, rail road tracks, etc. This has always surprised me, because I have always believed that beginners are really the only players who should have much trouble determining where to aim.

My experience has been that if I put in enough time at the table, I know exactly where I need to hit the OB as soon as I line up the shot. IMHO, if players want to improve their aim, they should spend more time working on fundamentals and on pocketing as many balls as possible.

I would love to hear what other players think about this.
 
JLW said:
because I have always believed that beginners are really the only players who should have much trouble determining where to aim.
Click to expand...


That is correct...anyone that has been playing longer than 3 months has got to be an absolute moron if they haven't figured out where to strike the OB, how to set up automatically to the shot, look at some hot chicks on the side line while stroking the cue, and fire the ball in at warp speed with maximum english for perfect position on the next shot. What I can't figure out is why it even takes 3 months.
 
JLW said:
I have seen a lot of discussion on this board dedicated to the subject of aiming methods- ghost ball, rail road tracks, etc. This has always surprised me, because I have always believed that beginners are really the only players who should have much trouble determining where to aim.

My experience has been that if I put in enough time at the table, I know exactly where I need to hit the OB as soon as I line up the shot. IMHO, if players want to improve their aim, they should spend more time working on fundamentals and on pocketing as many balls as possible.

I would love to hear what other players think about this.
Click to expand...

As far as I'm concerned, the way you are doing it is probably what the pros do too. I do see the pros sometimes for very tough shots, finding the line of aim through the ob to the pocket and that is usually just reserved for those extra-tough shots.
 
JLW said:
I have seen a lot of discussion on this board dedicated to the subject of aiming methods- ghost ball, rail road tracks, etc. This has always surprised me, because I have always believed that beginners are really the only players who should have much trouble determining where to aim.

My experience has been that if I put in enough time at the table, I know exactly where I need to hit the OB as soon as I line up the shot. IMHO, if players want to improve their aim, they should spend more time working on fundamentals and on pocketing as many balls as possible.

I would love to hear what other players think about this.
Click to expand...

Pool, as in many other aspects of life, is like an onion. You start off at the outside layer. In order to improve and get better, then you have peel off a layer. To get even better then you have to peel off another layer. You can even be working on the same aspect of your game (i.e. aim) in each layer you go. That's the difference between an amateur and a pro. The pro has dedicated more time to peeling off layers, closer to the onion's core.

If you're aim is so good, then you should never miss. If you're position play is so good, then you should be able to do anything you want. Thus, just run rack after rack after rack. You don't even need an opponent. If you're that good, it'd just be a one player game.

If you were that good, you might even get bored of the game. There'd be no reason to play. Just win the flip or the lag, and determine that person the winner of the match.

Given that you're not bored, and you're still playing, I'm gonna guess that you're not quite that good yet. You've probably got more layers to your onion.

Top players and pros often don't just aim to make the ball in a pocket, they often aim for a specific part of the pocket. If you're aim is so good, let's see how far to the outside of the pocket you can aim, and still continue to make balls and run tables. If you're aim is so good, then combination shots should be easy. How about adding extra balls, 3 ball combo, 4, 5, 6, 7, .... ?

How good is your aim, really? May not be as good as you think...
 
FLICKit said:
Pool, as in many other aspects of life, is like an onion. You start off at the outside layer. In order to improve and get better, then you have peel off a layer. To get even better then you have to peel off another layer. You can even be working on the same aspect of your game (i.e. aim) in each layer you go. That's the difference between an amateur and a pro. The pro has dedicated more time to peeling off layers, closer to the onion's core.

If you're aim is so good, then you should never miss. If you're position play is so good, then you should be able to do anything you want. Thus, just run rack after rack after rack. You don't even need an opponent. If you're that good, it'd just be a one player game.

If you were that good, you might even get bored of the game. There'd be no reason to play. Just win the flip or the lag, and determine that person the winner of the match.

Given that you're not bored, and you're still playing, I'm gonna guess that you're not quite that good yet. You've probably got more layers to your onion.

Top players and pros often don't just aim to make the ball in a pocket, they often aim for a specific part of the pocket. If you're aim is so good, let's see how far to the outside of the pocket you can aim, and still continue to make balls and run tables. If you're aim is so good, then combination shots should be easy. How about adding extra balls, 3 ball combo, 4, 5, 6, 7, .... ?

How good is your aim, really? May not be as good as you think...
Click to expand...


Flickit...how can you be such a bone head on one thread....and such an erudite poster on another. Brilliant man...brilliant. ;)
 
drivermaker said:
Flickit...how can you be such a bone head on one thread....and such an erudite poster on another. Brilliant man...brilliant. ;)
Click to expand...

Actually bonehead is in the eyes of the beholder.... :p
 
Flickit-

Are you kidding me? First of all, I do not need a lecture on how to play pool from you. I'm no pro, but believe me, I'm no novice either. I never said I had perfect aim or that my game needed no improvement. I merely brought up the idea that IMO anyone who has been playing for any length of time should know where to aim without having to imagine ghost balls or using technical aiming methods. It is my contention that if they are playing enough pool, they should be able to determine where to hit the OB pretty easily. I thought that perhaps there could be some interesting debate on this idea. Apparently, you're more interested in being a condescending a$$.
 
JLW said:
Flickit-

Are you kidding me? First of all, I do not need a lecture on how to play pool from you. I'm no pro, but believe me, I'm no novice either. I never said I had perfect aim or that my game needed no improvement. I merely brought up the idea that IMO anyone who has been playing for any length of time should know where to aim without having to imagine ghost balls or using technical aiming methods. It is my contention that if they are playing enough pool, they should be able to determine where to hit the OB pretty easily. I thought that perhaps there could be some interesting debate on this idea. Apparently, you're more interested in being a condescending a$$.
Click to expand...

what do you think your mind is doing subconciously?????

its using an aiming system to aim.......you just don't know it, because its a subconcious thought.


VAP
 
Grady Matthews talks about how he aims on his tape and it's either on the bottom portion of the OB like George Breedlove, or he uses the lights.

Efren uses sectional aiming and has discussed that at length. CJ Wiley on his tape uses an aiming system and Willie Mosconi used equal and opposite aiming systems. Many of the pros describe how they aim and what they use in various articles.

What I want to know from all of the "non-aimers" is....what DON'T YOU look at while shooting a shot? Do you not look at the pocket? Do you not look at the OB? Do you not look at the CB. Do you not look at the shaft, ferrule, or the tip of your cue? What is it that you DON'T look at specifically that allows you to pocket EVERYTHING in sight. (I have a feeling this question will go unanswered)
 
drivermaker said:
Grady Matthews talks about how he aims on his tape and it's either on the bottom portion of the OB like George Breedlove, or he uses the lights.

Efren uses sectional aiming and has discussed that at length. CJ Wiley on his tape uses an aiming system and Willie Mosconi used equal and opposite aiming systems. Many of the pros describe how they aim and what they use in various articles.

What I want to know from all of the "non-aimers" is....what DON'T YOU look at while shooting a shot? Do you not look at the pocket? Do you not look at the OB? Do you not look at the CB. Do you not look at the shaft, ferrule, or the tip of your cue? What is it that you DON'T look at specifically that allows you to pocket EVERYTHING in sight. (I have a feeling this question will go unanswered)
Click to expand...
.

The question is not how well you can aim. It's can you hit what your aiming at. I see lots of people with perfect "aim" trouble is thier cue is not looking at what thier eyes are.

All my aiming is done standing up behind the shot. I get a mental picture or blueprint of all the details. As i get down over my shot i'm transposing my mental image onto the physical model. The feeling of being 'locked in' is when your mental picture perfectly matches the physical dimentions of the shot. Look at it this way your mental picture is on transparent paper. you lay it on top of the real piture as your setting up. If not properly lined up the picture on top of picture will be blured. If you lay it down perfectly and fine tuned, then both pictures become one. That is when your 'locked in'. As for the aiming 'point'. That is easy, it's the point of aim that will make the ball. There is no such thing as an easy shot, or a hard shot. Only that when you hit that spot the ball must go. St.
 
JLW said:
Flickit-

Are you kidding me? First of all, I do not need a lecture on how to play pool from you. I'm no pro, but believe me, I'm no novice either. I never said I had perfect aim or that my game needed no improvement. I merely brought up the idea that IMO anyone who has been playing for any length of time should know where to aim without having to imagine ghost balls or using technical aiming methods. It is my contention that if they are playing enough pool, they should be able to determine where to hit the OB pretty easily. I thought that perhaps there could be some interesting debate on this idea. Apparently, you're more interested in being a condescending a$$.
Click to expand...

JLW,

Apparently those guys read what they want to see out of your post. And Mosconi says the same thing you did - the only way to learn how to make balls is to make a ton of balls.

Most of the aiming systems, even though they are technically correct, are just a way to sell a book or video.

And which pro tour do FUCKIT and Drivermaker play on?

Jake
 
I've always struggled with threads on aiming. I'm inclined to agree with those who say that determining the necessary contact on the object ball to pocket it is something even fairly inexpereinced players can do.

The point of confusion for me has always been the quesiton of where aiming starts and where it ends. If I choose the right point of aim, but misalign my body with the selected point of aim, have I made an error in aiming or an error in setup and stance? If I fail to deliver the cue ball on the line of the selected aim, to me, that does not seem to constitute an error in aiming, but one in mechanics and fundamentals.

To me, aiming is about target selection and not about delivery of the shot. Curious what others feel.
 
jjinfla said:
And Mosconi says the same thing you did - the only way to learn how to make balls is to make a ton of balls.

And which pro tour do FUCKIT and Drivermaker play on?

Jake
Click to expand...


I guess it shows just how much you read or have the ability to comprehend, which is nothing. Mosconi specifically spoke about the aiming process and what he did, and he DID AIM...along with hitting millions of balls.

BTW...what pro tour are you on?
 
JLW said:
Flickit-

Are you kidding me? First of all, I do not need a lecture on how to play pool from you. I'm no pro, but believe me, I'm no novice either. I never said I had perfect aim or that my game needed no improvement. I merely brought up the idea that IMO anyone who has been playing for any length of time should know where to aim without having to imagine ghost balls or using technical aiming methods. It is my contention that if they are playing enough pool, they should be able to determine where to hit the OB pretty easily. I thought that perhaps there could be some interesting debate on this idea. Apparently, you're more interested in being a condescending a$$.
Click to expand...

Wow! You're so aggressive. That really hurt me.... :eek:

OK, let's expand out your idea to other areas...
"I merely brought up the idea that IMO anyone who has been playing for any length of time should know where to aim without having to imagine ghost balls or using technical aiming methods."

With your argument, then anybody who's been playing for any length of time, should know how to stroke a shot. No need for books on stroke techniques. No need for gadgets like the "stroke trainer".

Anybody who's been playing for any length of time, should know about stance, and setup...

Anybody who's been playing for any length of time, should know how to bank. If any of you guys have any bank methods, don't broadcast them, we'll all learn it naturally in a short period of time.

Anybody who's been playing for any length of time, should know about position play.

Anybody who's been playing for any length of time, should know about banks.

Anybody who's been playing any length of time, shouldn't even need a discussion forum. There's nothing to talk about. Maybe we can only talk about stats and the history of pool. Wait a minute, anybody who's been playing any length of time should know all those facts too!

No need for any pool instructors. Let's cut out that profession alltogether. They must be con artists to believe that they can teach anything that the player wouldn't pick up on his/her own.

Anybody who's been playing any length of time, should know everything that you and I could possibly type. Maybe we're both wasting valuable bandwidth.
 
Once, I decided to never aim again. It was a Tuesday...the kind of Tuesday that comes between Monday and Wednesday...

But on my first shot after that decision, I realized that I had to know what ball and what pocket were involved. Then I noticed that I had to know where to hit the ob to make it in that pocket. Then I thought, shit, now I've got to know where to hit the cueball so it hits the ob so it goes in the right pocket...

Things were getting complicated, too complicated....the kind of complicated between really hard and downright impossible. So, I just closed my eyes and swung my cuestick.

I missed.

Now I aim every shot.

Jeff Livingston
 
JLW said:
I have seen a lot of discussion on this board dedicated to the subject of aiming methods- ghost ball, rail road tracks, etc. This has always surprised me, because I have always believed that beginners are really the only players who should have much trouble determining where to aim.

My experience has been that if I put in enough time at the table, I know exactly where I need to hit the OB as soon as I line up the shot. IMHO, if players want to improve their aim, they should spend more time working on fundamentals and on pocketing as many balls as possible.

I would love to hear what other players think about this.
Click to expand...

i've taken lessons from quite a few pro players...........and ALL of them have talke about how they aim. most of the time they talk about this without even being asked.

probably about 50 percent of their shots or more, they have seen a million times, and already know exactly what to do. i would call this "feel". they are still using a system to aim, its just not a concious effort.

now the rest of the shots are either shots that a difficult cuts or shots that become more complicated because they must spin the ball. this is when they start thinking and aiming subconciously.

its been my experience, that most players that can run more than a couple racks, use more than once aiming system. they have one system that they use for the majority of there shots. then they have a few other ones for different shots..........just because some shots are easier to see a certain way.

i personally use about 3. i can't remember what system i used to learn how to pocket basic shots.........now i use "feel" for those (more than likely i used the ghost ball)

then i have a way i look at tough cuts and shots that need sidespin.

and i also have a way that i aim combination shots.

whether or not i'm a "good" player is up for debate........but the original poster indicated that he thought he was a "good" player. so i'll ask him to compare his figures to mine.

5 racks in 9 ball.
3 racks in 8 ball.
58 in 14:1 (set that just a few days ago, playing more straight now finally)
several 80's in snooker.

so the original poster can take those numbers and figure out for himself if he thinks i'm a "good" player or not and whether to take this post with any seriousness or not.

i consider myself and "developing" player, and if his numbers can't beat those, then he needs to start "aiming"........... :p

VAP
 
Aiming ...

I think most are missing the point .... It is not hard for someone to aim
the OB straight into the pocket of choice, keep their eye on that spot,
and go back and try to send the cueball to hit that spot to pocket the
ball.

The hard part is being able to execute it properly. The main problems in doing that stem from an improper stance and stroke, or how many people do you see that can not bridge the cue right or have never learned. Women are especially bad about trying to learn Pool from a boyfriend who might be a level 2-4 at best and they do not know the right way to shoot Pool.

In short, these non-aimers do not have the basic fundimentals necessary in order to shoot Pool properly, yet I see some of them week after week out shooting Pool on dates or just hangin together taking 45-50 minutes to shoot 1 game of 8 ball. I suppose if you are lousy at Pool, it makes for a cheap date.

This is one area that leagues have downplayed that good money matches used to inspire. When 2 good players are tied up in a fairly high money match, it used to draw 20-40 people to watch it. People would get inspired about Pool from watching these 2 good players, and seek later on to learn more about Pool, or ask someone to teach them. They would usually seek out someone that knew what they are doing to teach them. What I see todayis people wanting to learn Pool from someone that is not even close to being qualified to teaching someone about Pool, so they end up learning the wrong way to play Pool. Some of these keep pursuing Pool, join a league, and keep shooting, but they have not learned properly, and get beat often, and either drop out, or gradually through league play start learning the right way to play.
The only problem is that they have learned bad methods of play, and it is much harder to undue bad habits than it is to teach a new beginner the right way to learn Pool.

Rules about Pool etiquette were learn by watching and being quiet over time, like you do not jump on a challenge 9 ball table to play for free when an ongoing game for $10 or $20 a game is going on. Or some young person talking loud or cussing when watching a money match, or several other curteous things about Pool. It is just lovely to hear some loudmouth in the background running their mouth about something stupid when you are involved in a $1,000 set. Yes, you can say something or try to get them out of there, but this sometimes causes confrontations, and confrontations affect a player's emotions, and hence their game.

Many young people nowadays do not have good manners, get their feathers ruffled at the slightest thing, and start trying to prove themselves in non-constructive ways, many times around a match going on, either a money match or a tournament match.

So please, keep your mouth shut until you learn about Pool matches the right way.
If you do not bother to learn the sport the right way, do not complain about your game all the time.
We can not fix what's wrong with your game in 10 minutes if you learned
the wrong way to begin with.
You are not by any means going to be Pro level in 3-4 months, so get that out of your head.
By all means, do not spout off something about Pool that you can not do.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top