How many tables for a tourney ??

KRJ

KRJ

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So, how many tables is needed to for a good local tourneys? I usually call ahead and see how many tables they have versus the MAX number of participants are allowed.

Does anyone else do this?

I hate when the get too many players without enough tables, and you must sit for hours between sets, it's just crazy.

So, what is the "magic number' that makes a tourney run at a crisp pace?

There is one in a neighboring state this weekend, 8B on Valleys, D/E, race to 5,
Max players is 64, but when I called about tables, they only have 8. That seems like way too many players for this tourney, and thus won't waste my time going.

Any thoughts on a good ratio of tables to players ? Assume the above, 8B, race to 5 with D/E.
 
ChicagoRJ said:
So, how many tables is needed to for a good local tourneys? I usually call ahead and see how many tables they have versus the MAX number of participants are allowed.

Does anyone else do this?

I hate when the get too many players without enough tables, and you must sit for hours between sets, it's just crazy.

So, what is the "magic number' that makes a tourney run at a crisp pace?

There is one in a neighboring state this weekend, 8B on Valleys, D/E, race to 5,
Max players is 64, but when I called about tables, they only have 8. That seems like way too many players for this tourney, and thus won't waste my time going.

Any thoughts on a good ratio of tables to players ? Assume the above, 8B, race to 5 with D/E.
Click to expand...

I was recently at a tournament that had more than enough tables but only used 3 or 4 so that they could stretch it out. The tournament could have taken about 4-5 hours but they made it last over 9 hours. Worse yet I practically had to run the bracket for them. I was sitting around knowing that my match should be up so I finally asked when we were going to play and the guy was clueless. Only 2 matches going on in a room of 12 or more tables....WTF?
I understand that you want to keep people a little longer to boost liquor and food sales but that was crazy. I wont be going back there anytime soon.
 
Okay, so assuming you have a full tourney, double elimination you would end up with 126 matches. Each match takes about 1.5 hrs to complete.
Most tourneys start at 12 PM to 1 PM.

So lets assume you get a total of 13.5 hrs from each table (max).
You would end up with 9 matches from each table (approx).
126 divided by 9 = 14.
So if it is a full field you would need 14 tables to get done that day.
So if you only have 8 tables the math says you could get in 72 matches.

A full 32 man bracket is 64 matches.
So with 8 tables one could get in 72 matches.

How does that equate to how many playes per table? 4.5 or you could round up to a max of 5 assuming that some matches get done a little faster.
 
twal said:
Okay, so assuming you have a full tourney, double elimination you would end up with 126 matches. Each match takes about 1.5 hrs to complete.
Most tourneys start at 12 PM to 1 PM.

So lets assume you get a total of 13.5 hrs from each table (max).
You would end up with 9 matches from each table (approx).
126 divided by 9 = 14.
So if it is a full field you would need 14 tables to get done that day.
So if you only have 8 tables the math says you could get in 72 matches.

A full 32 man bracket is 64 matches.
So with 8 tables one could get in 72 matches.

How does that equate to how many playes per table? 4.5 or you could round up to a max of 5 assuming that some matches get done a little faster.
Click to expand...

seems logical... 5-1 ratio of players to tables to keep it moving. anything more clogs up the works, and cuts into the fun factor of sittting around all friggin day.....
 
Yea...like basement dweller stated, its just nice to have enough people to have a tourney. But yea, I think in some places they like to drag it out to get the alcohol sales.
 
cluelesscuer said:
Yea...like basement dweller stated, its just nice to have enough people to have a tourney. But yea, I think in some places they like to drag it out to get the alcohol sales.
Click to expand...

Yep, it prolly is the reason... beer sales :) But, heck, they don't have to put in "added" money, and then every beer is pure profit. I don't care if they add money or not... not really sure why should the owners need to put their own money in the "pot" anyways.... I'd bet players would prefer to get done sooner than have a few extra bucks....
 
Added Money

Yep, it prolly is the reason... beer sales But, heck, they don't have to put in "added" money, and then every beer is pure profit. I don't care if they add money or not... not really sure why should the owners need to put their own money in the "pot" anyways.... I'd bet players would prefer to get done sooner than have a few extra bucks....
Click to expand...

I definitely agree that pool rooms need to keep the ratio of players to tables reasonable.

But I thought thats what makes a tournament and draws the big names was the Money at the end of the day. I mean who plays for trophies these days or even bragging rights for that matter.
 
ceodynamo said:
I definitely agree that pool rooms need to keep the ratio of players to tables reasonable.

But I thought thats what makes a tournament and draws the big names was the Money at the end of the day. I mean who plays for trophies these days or even bragging rights for that matter.
Click to expand...

To me it's like a poker game... if we all throw in $40, I only expect to win X amount of dollars, so if some "top" player has better action some place else, oh well, but usually those guys don't spend that much money anyways :) I don't think the big names draw players, heck, some folks wish they'd stay home so "we" have at least a fighting chance !!!
 
Who is paying the table time for the duration of the tournament? If the owner is letting you use the tables for free, then he is losing money on table time.

cluelesscuer said:
Yea...like basement dweller stated, its just nice to have enough people to have a tourney. But yea, I think in some places they like to drag it out to get the alcohol sales.
Click to expand...
 
twal said:
Okay, so assuming you have a full tourney, double elimination you would end up with 126 matches. Each match takes about 1.5 hrs to complete.
Most tourneys start at 12 PM to 1 PM.

So lets assume you get a total of 13.5 hrs from each table (max).
You would end up with 9 matches from each table (approx).
126 divided by 9 = 14.
So if it is a full field you would need 14 tables to get done that day.
So if you only have 8 tables the math says you could get in 72 matches.

A full 32 man bracket is 64 matches.
So with 8 tables one could get in 72 matches.

How does that equate to how many playes per table? 4.5 or you could round up to a max of 5 assuming that some matches get done a little faster.
Click to expand...

Nice to think those numbers, but, tourney flow math doesn't work like that.

64 players @8 tables @1.5 hrs match full double elimination is gonna take you 27.5 hours.

You've got 10-11 rounds to play (one 1.5 hr time slot each) plus an additional 5-7 time slots for rounds requiring more than 8 tables (W1 = 4, W2 = 2, L1 = 2, L2 = 2).

Regardless of the number of tables available, no tourney finishes faster than the number of rounds to be played. A full double elimination 128 person tourney with unlimited tables has 12 or 13 (if double dip) rounds. That's the number of bracket columns from the first round thru the loser's side and back to the championships.

At a mean 1.5 hours/match, that's 19.5 hours of play. Noon or 1 won't cut it. And that's in a perfect world. Any sane TD scheduling times inserts a 30 pad at least every fourth round to keep things on schedule. If it's strictly on an "as available basis" you're nuts if you think your going to stay on schedule with a perfect 90 minutes per match. That's assuming race to 5 8-ball. Any of these numbers are obviously adjustable by length of race or type of game. 8-Ball avg is 10/game, 10-Ball 7.5/game, 9-Ball 5/game.

Also, the first law of tournament brackets is that no tournament moves faster than the slowest moving loser's bracket leg. And warning slow players is usually fruitless, since the damage is almost always done before you discover the problem.

At 1.5hrs/match, theses are the perfect world times - meaning no delays and no dragging legs:

128 players with 64 tables available: 19.5 hours
128 players with 32 tables available: 22.5 hours
128 players with 16 tables available: 32.5 hours
64 players with 32 tables available: 15 hours
64 players with 16 tables available: 19.5 hours
64 players with 8 tables available: 27 hours
32 players with 8 tables available: 15 hours
32 players with 4 tables available: 24 hours

Those are rough off the top of my head numbers, but pretty close. I've run enough tournaments big and small that I wouldn't promise a group of players anything faster. And I've seen soooooo many TD's go down the tubes by thinking matches will always finish on time. Riiiiiiight....

B
 
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Cdryden said:
I was recently at a tournament that had more than enough tables but only used 3 or 4 so that they could stretch it out.
...
I understand that you want to keep people a little longer to boost liquor and food sales but that was crazy. I wont be going back there anytime soon.
Click to expand...

I've seen that done and it's always annoying because not only does it waste your time but it's also fairly short sighted on their part. The smart play is to make the tournament run as smoothly as possible so that people have a good time and come back. This allows the tournament to actually *grow* as more and more people stop in to check it out and keep coming back because it ran so smooth and they had a good time.

Then as the tournament does grow you need to either add more tables or shorten the races. Some people will complain if you have to shorten the races (imagine that) but it's better to keep the wait times down and end time reasonable. It will pay off in the long run. Oh btw, if you don't shorten the races when needed, those very same players will complain later when the wait times are so long, so just bite the bullet and do it when it's called for.

-Larry
 
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