How often do you hit vertical center on CB ?

R

ronscuba

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I usually hit above or below vertical center on all shots. Rarely do I use vertical center.

I decided to practice CB stun roll forward and CB stun roll back. Normally I would use a draw/drag or slow roll for this, but decided, I needed to improve my CB control.

Maybe it's because I don't hit vertical center much, but I was having a hard time. Even missing some medium/long shots.
 
ronscuba said:
I usually hit above or below vertical center on all shots. Rarely do I use vertical center.

I decided to practice CB stun roll forward and CB stun roll back. Normally I would use a draw/drag or slow roll for this, but decided, I needed to improve my CB control.

Maybe it's because I don't hit vertical center much, but I was having a hard time. Even missing some medium/long shots.
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When I use the vertical centre its for short stun shots, soft follow shots or firm stun run through (stun roll follow, punch follow or what ever you want to call it). So, its gets its usage.

One question, do you use different speeds when using stun follow or stun draw shots and keep the same tip positions for distance or amount of draw and follow needed? If you struggle with these shots, keep the shot speed the same. Firm, but not too firm. Instead of altering the speed of the shot alter the tip placement. Its easier to judge where to hit the cue ball than it is to alter the speed. It just aids consistency in these types of shots.
 
In one of my lessons with Stevie Moore, he was rather adamant about avoiding hitting dead center cb.
 
Vertical center

ronscuba said:
I usually hit above or below vertical center on all shots. Rarely do I use vertical center.

I decided to practice CB stun roll forward and CB stun roll back. Normally I would use a draw/drag or slow roll for this, but decided, I needed to improve my CB control.

Maybe it's because I don't hit vertical center much, but I was having a hard time. Even missing some medium/long shots.
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I believe that most instructors define "vertical center" as the line from the base of the cue ball to the top. You can hit above "center", but not above "vertical" center. Thus vertical center includes stun, follow and draw. "Center" is a point, not a line.

Lateral center is the line from the left outside edge of the cue ball (as you see it from the shooting position) to the right outside edge. So it includes center left, center and center right.

But I don't think your problem is in your semantics, though understanding the terms helps. My guess is you're not always striking the CB where you want to.

Solution? While most instructors teach looking at the object ball during the "business" stroke, I teach that it's OK to look at the CB when practicing, to verify that you're striking the CB where you want to.
 
ronscuba said:
I usually hit above or below vertical center on all shots. Rarely do I use vertical center.

I decided to practice CB stun roll forward and CB stun roll back. Normally I would use a draw/drag or slow roll for this, but decided, I needed to improve my CB control.

Maybe it's because I don't hit vertical center much, but I was having a hard time. Even missing some medium/long shots.
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I never heard of the term 'vertical center,' but I'm guessing by your description that you are referring to the center point of the cb relative to the line of the shot.

Again, I don't know what the term 'stun roll back' means. It sounds like a contradiction. Stun roll forward --- I get.

First, dead center is lower than what it appears to be to your eye. When you're down on the shot, you can't see the bottom of the ball but you can see over the top. Maybe you're already taking that into account, but I just thought I'd mention it. So the first thing to troubleshoot is to make sure you are actually hitting dead center if that's your intent.

Next, don't forget to follow through. The tendency for players who don't shoot those shots often is to hold back the follow through. That changes the stroke timing in a negative way. Focusing on your follow through can also help prevent steering.
 
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Yes, my terminology is not correct.

I mean hitting without english, center ball. On non english shots, I tend to hit above or below center. Rarely hit center.

I need to improve on small movements of the CB. CB hits the OB and moves forward or back slightly. 1" to 6" increments. Easy to do on short shots, more difficult on medium and long length shots.

I currently do soft draw (hitting low, but softly) for moving CB back slightly. Dragging or slow rolling for moving CB forward slightly. Wondering if using more center ball works better.
 
ronscuba said:
Yes, my terminology is not correct.

I mean hitting without english, center ball. On non english shots, I tend to hit above or below center. Rarely hit center.

I need to improve on small movements of the CB. CB hits the OB and moves forward or back slightly. 1" to 6" increments. Easy to do on short shots, more difficult on medium and long length shots.

I currently do soft draw (hitting low, but softly) for moving CB back slightly. Dragging or slow rolling for moving CB forward slightly. Wondering if using more center ball works better.
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I think the particular drill that would help you is the Wagonwheel drill. In that drill you move the cue ball with only different amounts of follow/draw/stun and the cushions are not involved. It has been described here before and is on YouTube.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I think the particular drill that would help you is the Wagonwheel drill. In that drill you move the cue ball with only different amounts of follow/draw/stun and the cushions are not involved. It has been described here before and is on YouTube.
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Thanks. I forgot about that one. When I 1st started to learn CB control I did that drill hitting the diamonds, but not necessarily stopping the CB at the diamond.

I can see stopping the CB at the diamonds is much more difficult and should be a very good drill for me.

Thanks again.
 
Pure center ball is used but only as needed. If you are close to the OB, say 2 diamonds or so, then a pure center ball hit with "normal" shooting speed is enough to stop the CB on a straight on shot. If you shoot a little softer, then you will need to hit a little below center. With more distance, you will need to use more speed and/or a lower hit in order to stop or control the cue ball and keep it from rolling forward.

Personally I don't get too focused on using a pure center ball hit or somewhere else on the vertical axis. I will use the tip placement I need to get the desired CB reaction learned through practice. There are many drills you can do to practice stop shots, replacement shots, stun run-through (where you get just a few inches of follow), or short draw shots, not to mention more normal draw and follow shots of various distances. Bob has some excellent progressive drills on his site, and I can point you to some other information if desired. By shooting the drills and evaluating the results you can begin to calibrate what is needed at what distances and speeds to build up your feel and be able to consistently execute shots as intended.
Scott
 
It would be nice to be able to stay up/down on Vertical Center Cue ball all the time. This is just not possible for most games.

I try to stay on VC as much as possible.

Remember: We use the edges of our tip about 99% of the time.

randyg
 
randyg said:
It would be nice to be able to stay up/down on Vertical Center Cue ball all the time. This is just not possible for most games.

I try to stay on VC as much as possible.

Remember: We use the edges of our tip about 99% of the time.

randyg
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I agree and try to use english only when necessary.

On non-english shots, is there is a general preference to use or not use center ball and why. I know I should be comfortable using all parts of the CB and there will be times where center CB is the only real choice. I am looking forward to doing Bob's recommended drill. But when you have a choice do people tend to use center or not ?

For example for stop shots I usually hit soft, low on the CB. I could hit closer to center and hit harder, but I find it easier to control the CB by hitting low soft.

Similar for rolling shots. I prefer hitting slightly above center. I find it easier to control CB position hitting slightly above compared to a center hit.

Is this just what I am used to or is their a technical reason ?
 
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ronscuba said:
... Similar for rolling shots. I prefer hitting slightly above center. I find it easier to control CB position hitting slightly above compared to a center hit.

Is this just what I am used to or is their a technical reason ?
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For rolling shots there are two preferred places. If you hit at 70% of the height of the cue ball, it rolls smoothly on the cloth immediately. That means that the amount of follow you get is independent from how far away the object ball is. You do not depend on travel across the cloth to get you the needed follow.

The second good height is about 61% of the height of the cue ball. At that height the distance the cue ball will travel is insensitive to errors in exactly how high you hit the cue ball. It is the height at which your lag shots can be most accurate in the face of high/low cueing errors. This is also the height at which your follow shots will be most accurate for cue ball placement if the cue ball has time/distance to acquire smooth rolling before hitting the object ball.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Which is to say, "no side spin". Some people call follow a kind of english. I think they shouldn't, but I have little control over them.
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LOL ! Correct, no side spin.

I have more confusion and inaccuracies with terminology. I think many of the silly aiming arguments are because people have different definitions and terminology for the same thing.

I have met people that say draw english, so your clarification is good and hopefully makes what I am trying to say, more understandable.
 
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FWIW, I had a lesson from Corey Deuel a couple of weeks ago, and I asked him "What percentage of your shots do you use sidespin on?"

His answer: "100%."

His go-to sidespin is outside ("helping") English.
 
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