How often do you see your local players with a really good, and solid Pre shot routine?

jasonlaus said:
Have you ever shot either?
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I was in the military, so yes shot riles and handguns, and a few more boomy things hehe. The difference between aiming and using a gun and a cue is like a difference between a car and a bicycle. You need to point them in the right direction, but the steps to hit the target, and the mechanics of it, are quite different as far as muscles and the stroke go. A cue would be like if you tried to throw the whole rifle at a target insteead of sending the bullet through the barrel.
 
hang-the-9 said:
I was in the military, so yes shot riles and handguns, and a few more boomy things hehe. The difference between aiming and using a gun and a cue is like a difference between a car and a bicycle. You need to point them in the right direction, but the steps to hit the target, and the mechanics of it, are quite different as far as muscles and the stroke go. A cue would be like if you tried to throw the whole rifle at a target insteead of sending the bullet through the barrel.
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What I'm talking about is being further back on the cue with the extension so it gives you a longer site
 
lfigueroa said:
I have probably seen Mark give several dozen lessons and I know how he teaches foot placement however my personal opinion is that you don't build a pool stroke from the bottom up but rather from the top down.

More than anything else your grip is going to determine your setup and the final, natural placement of your feet, as well as the rest of your body.

Get your grip right and all else follows.

Lou Figueroa
whaddaIknow
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I don't agree that the grip puts you over the shot line. Maybe I misunderstand your statement.
 
3kushn said:
I don't agree that the grip puts you over the shot line. Maybe I misunderstand your statement.
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Your body is going to do what it’s going to do if you allow it to and if what you want to do is hit a pool ball accurately, and you grip the cue so that it becomes an extension of your body, it will put you on the shot line.

Your brain and body will figure that out for you, just like when you’re dicing an onion with a sharp knife without losing a fingernail. Don’t think you’re worried about your stance at the cutting board, lol.

Lou Figueroa
wax on, wax off
 
We'll have to talk sometime on this. Would like to do this face to face, if you know what I mean.

My problem with this is there's no looking at the shot and stepping into it.

Are you saying even have our body against the table, bend down and shoot the grip takes care of everything?

Stepping into the shot was taught to me 40 years ago.

You saying that's not necessary? or There's other ways to get on the shot line?

Or I'm still confused what you're saying.
 
3kushn said:
We'll have to talk sometime on this. Would like to do this face to face, if you know what I mean.

My problem with this is there's no looking at the shot and stepping into it.

Are you saying even have our body against the table, bend down and shoot the grip takes care of everything?

Stepping into the shot was taught to me 40 years ago.

You saying that's not necessary? or There's other ways to get on the shot line?

Or I'm still confused what you're saying.
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Of course you're looking at the shot.

But you're doing it with a grip what makes your cue an extension of your body. Try different grips and I believe you will see that they each affect your final set up. Perhaps in very subtle ways but we're talking about a game that practically requires a surgical level of precision to be played well.

Lou Figueroa
 
All of the good players have a solid pre shot routine. You usually can’t “see” it because it is mental and in their heads. They are experts at quickly simulating outcomes rapidly and then zeroing in on the trial that generates the result they want. The appearance looks like confidence.

It is easier to see when players do not have a strong pre shot routine because they adjust themselves physically to try to figure out the shot rather than mentally.
 
nataddrho said:
All of the good players have a solid pre shot routine. You usually can’t “see” it because it is mental and in their heads. They are experts at quickly simulating outcomes rapidly and then zeroing in on the trial that generates the result they want. The appearance looks like confidence.

It is easier to see when players do not have a strong pre shot routine because they adjust themselves physically to try to figure out the shot rather than mentally.
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I think you’re right.

But I would add that their PSR is comprised of such micro points of reference that you can’t see them but they know executing them consistently is essential.

Put another way, I think the central reason lower level players complain of inconsistency in their play day-to-day (or even moment-to-moment) is because they haven’t locked down their PSR down to the granular level. Good players make it look easy and perhaps even natural but I think it’s only because they are executing a high level of PSR precision in a fluid manner.

Lou Figueroa
 
I just watched the opening episode of The Pitt and the head surgeon character quickly established his alphaness in a variety of ways. What was clear was the "relevance" in the guy's output. So yeah, pool machines probably aren't airhead naturals. Still, I find the errors that punctuate pool innings very disappointing and unbecoming of pool craft - or good PSR.
 
Seen several most were instructed on basics by Jerry Brieseth.

Jerry runs student had in basic to build mussel memory like Marine Corp DI.
 
lfigueroa said:
Of course you're looking at the shot.

But you're doing it with a grip what makes your cue an extension of your body. Try different grips and I believe you will see that they each affect your final set up. Perhaps in very subtle ways but we're talking about a game that practically requires a surgical level of precision to be played well.

Lou Figueroa
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This is very true. A particular grip orients the cue on a particular angle across the body. In order to get that cue on the shot line while maintaining this natural angle relative to the bodyy, the body needs to be positioned a certain way. If you alter the grip in a way that alters the way the cue is oriented relative to the body, the stance must be adjusted accordingly.

Every part of a good setup is dependant on and affects every other part.
 
I am just getting back into the game. I watched a couple local guys that are very good. I know both of them. One is mechanically precise. Everything by the book. His PSR is religious. The other guy looks different every time.

Watch the pros, same thing. No two are alike. Standardizing your game is programming in limitations IMHO.

I talked to Michael Phelps' coach once. He said you can study swimming, or you can swim. He said Phelps was in the pool every day for eight years before winning 28 gold medals. He didn't watch videos. He didn't study swimming. He swam. I don't know, there might be lessons in that.

Then there is the 10,000 hour "rule"....
 
WobblyStroke said:
This is very true. A particular grip orients the cue on a particular angle across the body. In order to get that cue on the shot line while maintaining this natural angle relative to the bodyy, the body needs to be positioned a certain way. If you alter the grip in a way that alters the way the cue is oriented relative to the body, the stance must be adjusted accordingly.

Every part of a good setup is dependant on and affects every other part.
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Yes, t's sort of like thinking of your cue as a prosthesis.

And how you choose to attached it is going to determine how natural an extension of your body it becomes.

Lou Figueroa
 
I can't find it now, but maybe 5 years ago there was a video of some snooker coach talking about stance, and a repeatable PSR.

He set up a standard shot and had a top-16 player shoot it a few times, and each time he'd trace their feet. The foot placement was within a couple of mm each time. His own students were 10-50mm different.
 
lfigueroa said:
Yes, t's sort of like thinking of your cue as a prosthesis.

And how you choose to attached it is going to determine how natural an extension of your body it becomes.

Lou Figueroa
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Had a friend who had a prosthetic arm from elbow downwards.
Loved to watch him “adjust his (for want of a better term) clamp”
If he was off consistently in one direction, he would twist the two pincers to a different angle until he could stroke through.
Surprisingly effective player also…. But, in all fairness, he was “good” before he lost the arm, and hated to quit the game.

RIP David
 
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