How to get big money into pool?

bruin70 said:
a)this encompasses too many things.
product image: pool has a bad rep, over a century old, and not likely to change anytime soon.

product: not here in the states. the USA is a big sport country, and even hockey isn't big enough. americans don't have the mindset to sit and watch two men walk around a 9' table. the game has its own inherent defficiencies.

product and celebrity: the success of the women is built on the fact that they're women..............and most of it is jeanette. ie, the only other two known women players are "that blonde" and "the tall gal with glasses". if the women are doing it right(and they are,,,,, better than the men), then pool is STILL on very shakey ground, because ultimately, jeanette is the only one benefitting from pool.

b) there's no "b" unless there's an "a"

"Pro pool is best understood as a product that hasn't sold very well."..........

location location location. there's no demographic to whom you can sell pool(we're talking the general public). before you sell your product, know your customer("the apprentice" :):) ) and let's differentiate between the "pro pool" watching demographic and the "bar/pool league" demographic, as they are to mutually exclusive groups(for now, anyway).
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In Michigan City "that Blond" couldn't even pay for her meal with a credit card 30 feet from the Arena as she had no ID. There was a Poster Card on the counter with 5 Players on it with rankings down to the 20's but no Allison to point to. The players were clearly picked on someone's idea of looks, but damn I think Allison is pretty.

Still, I wouldnt say Jeanette is the only one benefitting from pool. I think Allison, Eva, Dawn and Vivian are doing OK and im probably leaving out someone
 
Teacherman said:
Explain this. If the league players are not part of your audience, who is the audience.
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that's just my point. there IS no audience. here in nyc,,,,,you have one of the largest, hugest leagues in the country at ABC, and nary a one knows a male pro player. the leagues players play league pool, and they don't watch pro pool.

the audience you seek( if you want success) is in the general public, not the leagues. it is a false sense of hope to assume pro pool's audience lies in leagues, because those numbers have been hashed out over and over again as "proof" that the populariy of pool is rising. pool as a diversion is doing ok(that's what the #'s reflect),,,but it has nothing to do with pro pool succeeding.
 
Teacherman said:
Explain this. If the league players are not part of your audience, who is the audience.
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The audience includes all factors of society. Do you play football? I don't, but I love watching it. My 9 year old plays in Pop-Warner, but there are other leagues to that he can choose to play in. The NFL is an entity that is marketed. And if you pay attention it is marketed through its outstanding players. I agree that we need to have a solid organization for billiards. We then need to market the hell out of it using pros performing spectacular shots. That's right - market the pros. What an advantage pool has. It is the only game (sport if you choose) that most people have played and continue to play. More than baseball and football. There really is something here to work with.
 
Support Teacher's idea...

I have to stand behind Teacher on this one, from personal experience!
The league that Teacherman is referring to does work and works well, very well. DANNY D and I are proof of Teacher's league and of the APA BS HCP System. We've played in both leagues and both have it's ups and downs. However, the only 2 downs to Teachers league is 1) location- not enough locations to play at 2) cost. APA has many downs. 1-?) Poor HCP system, it's abused by a vast majority of players; only way to see something in your pocket is if you are "smarter" than the sandbagging teams and can get to the Al Mighty Las Vegas; you can be the league MVP and lose to a 3sl 3-0 because she broke and ran the table or played successful safeties 100% of her shots; It's the bottom of the pool when it comes to leagues. If you can play in a league that costs little, has plenty of players of all skill levels, has a good payout and offers you the opportunity to advance your game as well as your team to the next league level...wouldn't that be better than playing in a different smoke filled bar every week, paying your dues, playing your game, watching your team earn their way to the top positions, only to be knocked out by a team that you know has been sandbagging all season, and end of with a payout large enough to buy a round of team drinks...and your team finished 2nd!
Look at the Viking Tour! Hasn't it grown since Mike started it? It is one of the best payed and most played in Tour in the US (to my knowledge).
Teacher doesn't have to be at each location in every state! He said someeone that knows something about how to play. Who's to say he wont have a location to train the pool room owners how to operate the league and they will have to meet certain criteria to be a league operator!!!!!!
Keep it up Teach! Good job! I don't see the negative side of your posts, just the true business sense.

Zim
 
Zims Rack said:
I have to stand behind Teacher on this one, from personal experience!

Zim
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There are many very good leagues like Teachers. As similar as these leagues are they are to localized. A national league is needed and maybe one of the ones that already exists will improve to the point that everyone (most) will be satisfied. Whatever the league, it must support bars as well. As far as smoky bars? They are becoming the thing of the past as seen through changes in the law. It would be nice to see one of these national leagues fire up the pool community.
 
landshark77 said:
I heard that MJ can play pool pretty decent already, at least that is the conversation stemmed about that Hanes commercial. But IMO the ballers need to stick to ball and get the REAL pool pros to do that commercial.
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a few years back i heard he could play baseball too................ :rolleyes:



VAP
 
sjm said:
Perhaps it's time for a little business theory.

Pro pool is best understood as a product that hasn't sold very well. When a product having at least some merit doesn't sell, it is usually attributable to both of these two factors: a) the product itself needs to be improved or developed, and b) the product needs to be promoted better.
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This is turning out to be quite a good thread, maybe I can help bring it back a bit :)

The concept of scarcity is currently working against the pool product. The pool product is not very scarce, with the result that people do not consider it very valuable. To illustrate, imagine I run a TV network, DavesChannel. We want to run some pool tournaments on TV, so I go looking to buy some events. Who do I call ? UPA first, then Viking Tour, then Planet Pool, then Fury, then Joss, then Pechauer, etc. Since TV contracts are sought after by these groups, I can play them off against each other a bit and obtain the product at a very good rate.

This of course leads to another problem with the product : How good is it ? By this I mean do we have the top quality pool, or the nearly-top-of-the-heap pool, or pretty-darned-good pool, or a bunch of wannabees with sticks ? The audience will be hard pressed to know the difference between play at a good regional event vs top-level pool. Without knowing they might discount the event as 'not the best' pool, which makes the event less valuable. In other sports they are told what level they are watching, it is well graded for them (PGA Tour vs Nationwide Tour ; MLB vs AAA vs AA vs A ; NHL vs AHL vs WHL vs NSJHL ; NCAA Div 1, Division 2, etc).

Now, if some great person comes along and organizes pool under a single umbrella group and de-fragments the sport, DavesChannel has to negotiate with that one group for a scarce, well-graded series of sporting events. If I still want to show pool I will pay more for it.

Just my opinion sneaking out again ...

Dave
 
DaveK said:
Now, if some great person comes along and organizes pool under a single umbrella group and de-fragments the sport, DavesChannel has to negotiate with that one group for a scarce, well-graded series of sporting events. If I still want to show pool I will pay more for it.

Just my opinion sneaking out again ...

Dave
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Great post, I agree. The question becomes what organization is capable of pulling this together? I do not think the BCA is the answer. UPA has some good characteristics and some very good drive. There's other leagues too. The problem we have is that it almost seems as if each of the pro leagues compete with each other instead of eastablishing a territory. Lots of bashing here. I think that pool should find a sport or game that has been successful and copy it. Golf might be the answer.
 
Another point to battle. About 1 1/2 years ago Earl S. was practicing for a tounament to get underway. He was talking about an experience he had on the golf coarse. He linked up with some local players who had asked him what he does for a living. Earl stated that he's a professional pool player. Immediatly one of the guys in the foursome said to him, "So your a pool hustler, huh."
 
There is already 'BIG' money in pool...it's just not for the players...the Billiard Industry is a MEGA MILLION $$$ money maker...the money is made off of all of us in this forum...we own tables, cue's and all the accessories and trinkets that go along with being a 'POOL NUT'...the unfortunate part of this is...there are loads of people with tables in their homes, along with all the other stuff you need to 'CREATE' a 'BILLIARD/GAME ROOM'...it's a 'FAD' now...like having a 'MEDIA ROOM' custom made to watch your collection of DVD's...if more people were 'PLAYERS'...ie(ventued out to local rooms, supported local leagues, and were more demanding of the industry), we would see more of the things talked about here...problem is there are not enough 'REAL POOLROOMS' that are set up to cater to the LADY/FAMILY enthusiasts...to smokey, to loud, mediocre food and lest we forget...bathrooms not fit for human beings...

just my 2 cent~
 
Jersey said:
to smokey, to loud, mediocre food and lest we forget...bathrooms not fit for human beings...

just my 2 cent~
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We need more pool rooms like were I live and Teachermans rooms. If others can follow their lead it would be a great start. We need to polish pool to gain the respect it deserves. Road players are fine, golf has them too. But your right, rooms have to be clean. How about a rating system? Golf rates coarses and shows pictures of holes from different coarses. maybe AZBilliards can start something. If awards are given, then you know local newspapers will publish the picture of their room in their newspaper followed by an article. If the awards are professional and qualifications are listed properly, this should lead the new articlewriter into stating positives.
 
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As much as I love this game, I don't think it carries over
to TV well oftentimes. I like to watch one pocket (on tapes)
because I don't know what people are going to do. But in
watching 9 ball, 90%+ of the time everyone's gonna play each
shot the same way. It's just a matter of execution. Really
the excitement, to me anyways, lies in:
1) people stringing racks together (i.e. superstars), which
doesn't happen now with the alternate break formats
2) the intensity and pressure involved in each game, which
I think the alternate break format helps a bit when the
match is close, but hurts when one guy gets up 3-1.

I did like watching the match with Kid Delicious and Gabe
Owen, which was on lately. Kid Delicious actually had some
personality so it was less stolid and more entertaining for
me.

If you want to make pool exciting to the layman, market the
underside of the game. It doesn't seem to have hurt poker.
I read that when the Hustler was released, it caused a bit
of a pool revival...same thing with the Color of Money.

Just my thoughts, so don't flame me too bad...peace
-Egg
 
pete lafond said:
The question becomes what organization is capable of pulling this together?
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At this point the best way forward might be for the pool players organize themselves. The only other way I see is the Teacherman approach, wait for a pool sugar-daddy who wants to own the business. All existing organizations carry too much bagage from what I've seen and read. The barrier will be trust, a remnant of pools past ...

JMO,

Dave
 
DaveK said:
At this point the best way forward might be for the pool players organize themselves. The only other way I see is the Teacherman approach, wait for a pool sugar-daddy who wants to own the business. All existing organizations carry too much bagage from what I've seen and read. The barrier will be trust, a remnant of pools past ...

JMO,

Dave
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Yes, I agree with this. Maybe Teacherman wants to establish something.
 
Zims Rack said:
We've played in both leagues and both have it's ups and downs.
Zim
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I agree.... ALL leagues have their ups and downs.
You guys seem to be one trick ponies. Of course in all your posts, everything you do, has only ups, and anything anyone else does differently only has downs. Let's see you back up your words, since you say other leagues have UPS, try to name a few. Somehow I don't think you can do it, without either some stingy backhanded compliment, or without somehow trying to temper it by saying what you do is better. Point is, you say that everything has it's ups and downs, we've heard you repeatedly try to bash and say downs, but what are the ups of the leagues that aren't yours?

Let's hear the flip side of the coin from you guys (Teacherman included) for once. Or are you really just a one trick pony with an agenda?

Other people post on here, that it'd be interesting to have a general discussion of what works with regards to a pool rating system, but you try to bash and eliminate any sort of positive solutions. Unless of course, the solution is the Teacherman watches and rates all system, of course that's the greatest thing in the world!
 
FLICKit said:
I agree.... ALL leagues have their ups and downs.
You guys seem to be one trick ponies. Of course in all your posts, everything you do, has only ups, and anything anyone else does differently only has downs. Let's see you back up your words, since you say other leagues have UPS, try to name a few. Somehow I don't think you can do it, without either some stingy backhanded compliment, or without somehow trying to temper it by saying what you do is better. Point is, you say that everything has it's ups and downs, we've heard you repeatedly try to bash and say downs, but what are the ups of the leagues that aren't yours?

Let's hear the flip side of the coin from you guys (Teacherman included) for once. Or are you really just a one trick pony with an agenda?

Other people post on here, that it'd be interesting to have a general discussion of what works with regards to a pool rating system, but you try to bash and eliminate any sort of positive solutions. Unless of course, the solution is the Teacherman watches and rates all system, of course that's the greatest thing in the world!
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Quit avoiding the question......answer it.
 
FLICKit said:
Yeah exactly...

I'm waiting for you to give the answers...
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Where is the $12,800,000 (approx) that's missing from your pet orgainzation's prize fund?

Maybe you're part of the scam? Are you an APA league operator?

Positives are irrelevant until the money is accounted for.
 
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