how to run a handicap tourney

M

mikeiniowa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am running what I hope to be is a big handicap 8 ball tourney this weekend. It is 1000 added( prorated by 64 players). it is in des moines Iowa at big dog billiards.
I decided to handicap the tourney trying to get participation up. whenever we have bigger entry fee tourneys the turnout is 40-50. I am trying to get 60-80.

anyway the format is A+(pro) A,B,C. Of course even before I have it, I am getting complaints that this is not enough groups. Basically what I have thought is the
A players are the cream of the crop locally, the C players are the below average and beginners and the B players are all capable and everybody else. Either you are really good, not very good or you're a B player. that means the B group is extra big.

sounds good to me. you can only complicate it so much. this is my question. I am looking for the descriptions for what a A+, A, A-,B+,B........D should be able to do. I believe it was listed in a thread way back when and it was in the play your best pool book.

Anybody remember the thread it was in? also how does this sound? I just want to have a tourney that pays good without driving 4-5 hours.


I cant change the format. it is A+,A,B,C. BTW I am a A player, I dont expect any pros from the Quad Citys(Baraks, Boweman,Vilmont). But players are already complaining the B group is too big. For example a low B player would not like playing the high B player but the high B cant beat the local A Players. The low B's would stomp what I would call the C players.
 
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Forget letters and rate everybody by games played...
A=8
B=7
C=6
D=5 I wouldn't go anymore than this in a bigger level tournament, watch for sandbaggers and don't automatically make female players a D...I don't buy into that crap when they break and run 3 ~ 4 racks...
 
Craig Fales said:
Forget letters and rate everybody by games played...
A=8
B=7
C=6
D=5 I wouldn't go anymore than this in a bigger level tournament, watch for sandbaggers and don't automatically make female players a D...I don't buy into that crap when they break and run 3 ~ 4 racks...
Click to expand...


that is basically what I am doing. add the A+ players and take off a game for each of the above and that is what we have. I have all women playing as a C except for my wife who is a B. and yes I am scared of sandbaggers so I am having a 5 man committee look at anybody's handicap that is in question and I am not on that committee.
 
The problem is ...

if you handicap it, some player from out of town shows up, and he was
a low B 2 years ago when he was in before, and so you make him a B, when he has improved to A level now. Happens everytime. What about out of state players, for $1,000 added they will show up if you advertised it.

And C players shouldn't even be in the tournament, it is above their head, unless they are doing for the experience only.

There will always be someone classed lower than their true speed, and you will get complaints, problem is, the tournament is already in progress.

Our big Thanksgiving tournaement is a 128 player handicapped 9 ball tournament, and every year there are 6-8 people in it way below what they should be. We don't use the alpha system, we use 2-12 ratings for 9 ball.
(For example, in the past, Tony Fargo has been an 11).
 
mikeiniowa said:
that is basically what I am doing. add the A+ players and take off a game for each of the above and that is what we have. I have all women playing as a C except for my wife who is a B. and yes I am scared of sandbaggers so I am having a 5 man committee look at anybody's handicap that is in question and I am not on that committee.
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If that's the case I'll go get Alice Rim and all the other A+ women players from around here and we'll clean everybodies clock...:D
 
Handicapping requires judgment calls on the skill levels of the players - and whoever's making that judgment call isn't going to know each player and how they play.

If you're going to have such a big tournament, ditch the handicap plan. Just set it up an even race to X. Keeps things simple, and no one can complain that the other guy is under-handicapped.
 
RayDM said:
For what it's worth, I wouldn't have even handicapped it.(maybe only women get 1 game on the wire). With $1000 added your still going to have a pretty good tourney as long as you advertise it plenty ahead of time.

The osceola casino tour always drew a good crowd and was never handicapped. Your going to draw basically the same players. Or the same crowd that use to cram Smokey's tourney.


Also a few months ago the ACS tourney was held at Big Dogs. All of the people you get this time will be basically the same people. They were rated then, keep them the same, whining or not.

Just my .02
Ray
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I would like to handicap like the acs but then jamie and jason are the only elite. jody, wes and jerrod are not officially on the list and I got taken off. Players were complaining last time about me not being on the elite list by known ability. I am not doing this to benefit me but to bring in more players.

If I was looking out for myself I would have done it like an acs tourney and we have had plenty of opportunity to sanction this tourney.

I am trying to get those players that are on the fence and get the extra 20 players. we get a consistant 40-45 everytime and I am trying to get a tourney that pays close to a grand.
 
If you running a handicap tournament. Wouldn't it be wise- prior to the start of tournament - to state all handicap for players are subject to change at any given time during tournament or after ??? numbers of games play or won.
 
Craig Fales said:
Forget letters and rate everybody by games played...
A=8
B=7
C=6
D=5 I wouldn't go anymore than this in a bigger level tournament, watch for sandbaggers and don't automatically make female players a D...I don't buy into that crap when they break and run 3 ~ 4 racks...
Click to expand...

If hes gonna have 8-8 or 8-7 or even 8-5 races for 8 ball, he may want to make it a 4 day tourney. Those are long races if he has a large field of players. JMO.

Southpaw
 
Thanks Mike

As always Mike thanks for your efforts. Remember it doesnt matter how you do it theres always going to be people pissed of at the rankings. I say F 'em. Let them put together a tourney. Sorry I wont be able to make it and wine about my rating. :)


They dont think of the time you have put in, only that they dont have the nuts. If anyone complains about their rating say "I was going to move you down but you didnt even thank me for even having this damn thing."
 
Southpaw said:
If hes gonna have 8-8 or 8-7 or even 8-5 races for 8 ball, he may want to make it a 4 day tourney. Those are long races if he has a large field of players. JMO.

Southpaw
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Those were just hypothetical numbers...probably knocking off two games is the way to go....:)
there are charts that you can use to reduce the games played...I play as a 9 around here and to speed things along I don't let my opponent win any games...:D
 
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I agree with the above poster... You can never please everybody. And there's only so much you can do. This is not an excuse to be lazy, but just to recognize that this is not your full-time job, and you also have a life to lead. You are doing this tournament to help the billiards community, so congrats and a pat on the back for that. It's definitely hard work.

You have to set the rules, stick by your guns and shoot anybody who tries to bring you down.

I put together a Harvard 8 Ball Championship tournament here, (the Finals will be this Sunday: http://harvard8ball.googlepages.com), and even with a 32-person double elimination, it's not easy, without handicap.

Good luck with your tournament.

-Eric Chen
 
mosconiac said:
You didn't win it? I was hoping to see a "I made it a three-peat" post this fine Monday.
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I know, I was really disapointed that I couldnt make it. I have been gone for about two weeks and this weekend would have been the third. Oh well. The good thing is the guy who I play with regularly, won. If it was anyone besides me, I hoped it would be him.
 
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