How to save professional pool...no, really.

Boxcar said:
Excellent reply.

OK, just to recap, there are at least two schools of thought regarding the future of "professional" pool. 1. A successful future can be achieved by riding the status quo and seeing where it leads or 2. a successful future can be achieved by organizing and promoting a well managed player's organization.

It just occurred to me that there are many members here who know "professional" players. So, allow me to request that those of you who do know a professional player, please discuss this topic with them. If time permits, please share their responses on this thread.
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Are you saying the players should have a union? Excuse e if I'm misinterpreting it.
 
hang-the-9 said:
It is very very rare that someone that is bad wins and someone that is good looses, outside of having a handicap of some sort. Winning is pretty much tied to skill and performance, especially at the higher levels. It's hard to get better without competing. I can't think of any player I know that is a even a C player or better that has not played in leagues or tournaments. I think it's very safe to put abilities to play certain shots or table knowledge to a Fargo rating.
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Of those two groups, the good and the bad, which will a large group of paying fans want to see?
 
dendweller said:
Are you saying the players should have a union? Excuse e if I'm misinterpreting it.
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From the very first post on this thread, I have been advocating for organization and leadership. When I use the word "union," what I am referring to is an association of skilled and recognizable professionals, just like The PGA Tour.
 
Boxcar said:
From the very first post on this thread, I have been advocating for organization and leadership. When I use the word "union," what I am referring to is an association of skilled and recognizable professionals, just like The PGA Tour.
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Like this ?

wpbsa.com

WPBSA Players | WPBSA | Snooker

The WPBSA has created a platform for its professional snooker players to have a collective voice and dedicated support.
wpbsa.com wpbsa.com

Dave
 
Boxcar said:
From the very first post on this thread, I have been advocating for organization and leadership. When I use the word "union," what I am referring to is an association of skilled and recognizable professionals, just like The PGA Tour.
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I think that only works once you get management that is making a lot money and depend on that association to make it. I'm not sure that is the case at this point in time. Maybe I'm wrong though.
 
dendweller said:
I think that only works once you get management that is making a lot money and depend on that association to make it. I'm not sure that is the case at this point in time. Maybe I'm wrong though.
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The PGA of America model is very informative. Read the History of The PGA (online) and see the role Mr. Wanamaker played in the outcome. I believe organization with knowledgeable leadership is key to the future of Professional Pool. There are other approaches to the future of pro pool that deserve a hard look. I'm just searching for a solution to the problem that JAM brought up in the premise of her thread.
 
Boxcar said:
The PGA of America model is very informative. Read the History of The PGA (online) and see the role Mr. Wanamaker played in the outcome. I believe organization with knowledgeable leadership is key to the future of Professional Pool. There are other approaches to the future of pro pool that deserve a hard look. I'm just searching for a solution to the problem that JAM brought up in the premise of her thread.
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Don't think that addressed my comment.
 
Boxcar said:
The PGA of America model is very informative. Read the History of The PGA (online) and see the role Mr. Wanamaker played in the outcome. I believe organization with knowledgeable leadership is key to the future of Professional Pool. There are other approaches to the future of pro pool that deserve a hard look. I'm just searching for a solution to the problem that JAM brought up in the premise of her thread.
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And please don't copy and paste 3 pages from wikipedia, and don't confuse me not know what the pga is with me thinking maybe you are wrong.
 
dendweller said:
Don't think that addressed my comment.
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Sorry, it is true that the issue of effective leadership is crucial. A players organization is member driven. The UAW model doesn't apply here.

Players nominate and elect leaders from within. The elected leadership forms a board of directors. Pool players, particularly the ones with years of experience, already know where the holes in the road are, thus the "experience" piece is already built in.. Like the mob, the members are guided by the Godfather, not because he can kill them, but because of his "Experience." I provided an example of a "start-up" model in an earlier in this thread. It may help.

If this doesn't deal with your concerns, please let me know.
 
Here's my question. I think normally an association/union whatever comes into existence to collectively bargain because there's money being made and it's not coming down to those who are doing the work. In this case, those doing the work would be the players. Who's making the big money and not sharing with the players?
I had relatives that did a couple semesters in Britain 30 years ago. From what they said, snooker was on TV all the time. Get that to happen with pool and you'll have something to bargain about.
 
dendweller said:
Here's my question. I think normally an association/union whatever comes into existence to collectively bargain because there's money being made and it's not coming down to those who are doing the work. In this case, those doing the work would be the players. Who's making the big money and not sharing with the players?
I had relatives that did a couple semesters in Britain 30 years ago. From what they said, snooker was on TV all the time. Get that to happen with pool and you'll have something to bargain about.
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And that is my point. First you have to find the way to get pool into the public eye. I addressed all of that in earlier posts. The battle to achieve that has proved to be an uphill battle for pool...and there are thousands of reasons why. Nobody watches High School Football on TV. Everybody watches The super Bowl on TV. Why?

The model you are thinking of is not germane here. As I said, the UAW model does not apply. Think about how you would set up a member driven professional association.
 
Boxcar said:
And that is my point. First you have to find the way to get pool into the public eye. I addressed all of that in earlier posts. The battle to achieve that has proved to be an uphill battle for pool...and there are thousands of reasons why. Nobody watches High School Football on TV. Everybody watches The super Bowl on TV. Why?

The model you are thinking of is not germane here. As I said, the UAW model does not apply. Think about how you would set up a member driven professional association.
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Read the thread, just don't agree that organizing without profitable viewership is helpful. Probably just provide a forum for a lot bickering, like here.
 
dendweller said:
Little off topic, but do you suppose MR is currently loosing money on pool and banking on building it up or is there some profit for them at this point.
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I'm not business savvy so any opinion of mine would be guesswork. If I were to hazard a guess. I'd say the beginning of any venture tends to be investment heavy and profit light. May even go so far as to think that the promotion of pool for matchroom is a tax shelter of sorts for their other established promotions.
 
Boxcar said:
Excellent reply.

OK, just to recap, there are at least two schools of thought regarding the future of "professional" pool. 1. A successful future can be achieved by riding the status quo and seeing where it leads or 2. a successful future can be achieved by organizing and promoting a well managed player's organization.

It just occurred to me that there are many members here who know "professional" players. So, allow me to request that those of you who do know a professional player, please discuss this topic with them. If time permits, please share their responses on this thread.
Click to expand...
By "status quo" are you suggesting the last few years Matchroom has been all in, or the eternity of pool in NA....? To suggest that MR's efforts are the "status quo" is very misleading. The product was very busted well before they picked up the ball.
 
dendweller said:
Read the thread, just don't agree that organizing without profitable viewership is helpful. Probably just provide a forum for a lot bickering, like here.
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You may be right! It's kind of one of those "what came first, the chicken or the egg." I wanted to start a discussion that may expose some of the obstacles that now face "professional pool." My view is that, unlike snooker which is highly organized, our pool is sort of "catch as catch can." Yes, we have tournaments and leagues and other iterations of a promoted sport, but with the exception of the Mosconi Cup, nobody is sitting around waiting for the next pool tournament. One main reason is that other than the members here, nobody knows who the competitors are, much less their won/loss stats. Back when I was a kid, I knew half the guys on the Brooklyn Dodgers batting average. Pool is not a household word because it hasn't succeeded in making itself a household word. The world is not going to go to pool. To succeed, pool will have to go to the world. Sitting around wallowing in the status quo has proven to be an ineffective strategy. So, let's come up with an effective strategy. Nobody is going to do it for us.
 
Boxcar said:
Nobody watches High School Football on TV. Everybody watches The super Bowl on TV. Why?
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Because highschool supporters tend to be local to the team so they'll watch the game live. Whereas the Superbowl is way too expensive to attend for most and anywhere in the country...lol

That said, depending where you live in the States. HS football is as popular as the entire population of the district.
 
The_JV said:
By "status quo" are you suggesting the last few years Matchroom has been all in, or the eternity of pool in NA....? To suggest that MR's efforts are the "status quo" is very misleading. The product was very busted well before they picked up the ball.
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I admire what MR is doing. Over the next 15 to 20 years, they may well be able to move American pool over to Network television. But I can remember watching Irving Crane and Luther Lassiter, etc. on TV years and years ago. Why didn't that work. What MR is doing has already been tried and it failed. That feels like status quo to me. Maybe this time is the charm, but there is no good reason to put all your eggs in one basket. What if something else might work? What if?

The critical question is this: how many American pool players are making a good living playing for MR? Do you know the answer? Making a living is not sleeping in your car and eating catsup. OK, say 100 guys are making a decent living working for MR. Again, let me ask the question: what about the other 29 million of us that want some action, too? What about us?
 
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