How would an American fare in the Philippines?

[John Barton]

Jay, so what is the nut over there? Any tips for someone who might want to take a vacation over there? Crime levels? Will you have trouble getting paid if you club baby seals?

Russ

Russ I don't think they will make you post the $20 before they club you.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Russ I don't think they will make you post the $20 before they club you.

LOL ! Funny !

 

[John Barton]

Good information. I guess your Appleton example is what prompted my original post - it seems Filipinos have no problem traveling the world to get action, while Americans don't do the same. For gamblers, it would seem to me that the Philippines are a sort of untapped market. I'm sure the action is tough, but it's got to be a lot better playing mostly even games there than it is here, where everyone wants the world before screwing the cues together. Still, I think our top players would have a tough time gambling over there since that's a way of life there, so maybe that's why our guys don't travel there.

-djb

Well there is a little bit of a trade imbalance going on. The top Filipinos can travel because they are very likely to get to the top money in just about any tournament they enter. They are likely to have the best of any even matchup as well. So with the exchange rate being at five to one they are effectively getting five to one odds on the money when you consider that the bulk of what they win goes home. On top of that they have steady backers who pay for everything which eases the burden.

The Americans on the other hand can't make much money there because IF they started beating up on the players then the action would dry up. But there is a long way to go to consider beating up on the players there so they would really need to go just for training purposes and not with the idea of taking home much money.

I fully believe however that any of our top guys are capable of taking down any of their top guys in any given set. That's just my belief and Jay has a different opinon and his carries much more weight than mine because he is much more intimately familiar with top-notch speed and high stakes gambling than I am.

But in a one shot deal it has already been confirmed that the Filipinos will put up $500,000 against any American to come and play. So there is money to be made, and big life-changing money at that IF you can find a horse who can outrun the Pinoys on their track.

 

[cueman]

But in a one shot deal it has already been confirmed that the Filipinos will put up $500,000 against any American to come and play. So there is money to be made, and big life-changing money at that IF you can find a horse who can outrun the Pinoys on their track.

I am curious if the winner of such a bet could make it out of the country with the cash. I have been told officials over there are kinda like those I have run into in central and south America.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

I am curious if the winner of such a bet could make it out of the country with the cash. I have been told officials over there are kinda like those I have run into in central and south America.

Officials there have nothing to do with a privately sanctioned or sponsored event. besides, If ever such a scenario occurs, it would be a bad publicity for that country. especially if it promotes it's tourism. besides, the officials there can attain such amount during their term quite handily.

 

[jay helfert]

Officials there have nothing to do with a privately sanctioned or sponsored event. besides, If ever such a scenario occurs, it would be a bad publicity for that country. especially if it promotes it's tourism. besides, the officials there can attain such amount during their term quite handily.

Pool is high profile over there, and any big match would get gobs of publicity. As far as a $500,000 bet, I would have to see it to believe it. Maybe $50,000. NO ONE bets that high over there. $10,000 is a very big game.

The only American player I see now who I think might be able to beat a first tier filipino in a long match is Rodney. No telling how good he might play. Corey is another good candidate as is Johnny. Players like John Schmidt and Shane might get games with second echelon champions and have a good chance. I'm sure Bob Hunter has given John the whole scoop.

It's expensive for them to come here and play too. They need to win something to make the trip worthwhile. So they arrive hungry. You may not know this, but Santos was here for over ten years without going home to his wife and family!!! He never made enough money. After he won the Skins game last year, he finally went home to see his 11 and 12 year old sons. Talk about dedication to his job. He was sending money home when he won smaller amounts.

 

[f210]

Pool is high profile over there, and any big match would get gobs of publicity. As far as a $500,000 bet, I would have to see it to believe it. Maybe $50,000. NO ONE bets that high over there. $10,000 is a very big game.

The only American player I see now who I think might be able to beat a first tier filipino in a long match is Rodney. No telling how good he might play. Corey is another good candidate as is Johnny. Players like John Schmidt and Shane might get games with second echelon champions and have a good chance. I'm sure Bob Hunter has given John the whole scoop.

It's expensive for them to come here and play too. They need to win something to make the trip worthwhile. So they arrive hungry. You may not know this, but Santos was here for over ten years without going home to his wife and family!!! He never made enough money. After he won the Skins game last year, he finally went home to see his 11 and 12 year old sons. Talk about dedication to his job. He was sending money home when he won smaller amounts.

Jay,

Can you list the Filipino players who belong to the 1st and the 2nd echelon? Where does Marlon Manalo fit in? Is there a 3rd echelon?

Thanks.

 

[1on1pooltournys]

Mark Wilson

You should consult Mr. Mark Wilson on Americans playing in the Phillipines. He spent alot of time over there and has very interesting stories. He told me some amazing things. I'd say he has the best input on this topic! For what it's worth.

 

[pool whiz]

I am an englishman now living here in the Philipines and would agree mostly with what Jay has said. It is a great training ground, and if I was a top player I would consider it an absolute essential to travel here and play.

Arranging matches is no problem and good money can be made for a short time. Darren Appleton from England now travels here regularly and plays, games can be arranged for any amount, I think the most Darren played for against a b player was $6000. However as Jay says they will quickly work out how good a player is and then it is difficult to gamble more than $2-3oo unless you play one of the big guns.

That being said the players here b and c players play to a very high standard and have a huge advantage over foreign players. They generally have sponsors, so they are not playing with their own money and more importantly they play for money and under pressure every single night. It is their only way of making a living and feeding their families. If you gamble $300 and lose the filipino player may make only $30 but this will pay his bills for a week!!!

If anyone is interested in visiting I can help with hotels, showing people around, and introducing suitable opponents depending on skill level. In fact arranging such trips is something I am considering entering into as a business.

Nice plans you got there...sure it will boost the Filipino pool player's international exposure, without leaving their country...

http://cgi.ebay.com/START-WINNING-P...4QQihZ007QQcategoryZ75195QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[jay helfert]

Jay,

Can you list the Filipino players who belong to the 1st and the 2nd echelon? Where does Marlon Manalo fit in? Is there a 3rd echelon?

Thanks.

First echelon is guys like Orcullo, Bustamante, Reyes, Corteza, Alex & Manolo. Second tier are guys like Luat, Gabica, Kiamco, Gallego, Lining, Andam, Parica (he's slipped a notch) and Santos. Third tier has dozens of players. Guys with names like Gomez, Garcia, De Luna (maybe 2nd tier now), Jamito, Castro and many, many more. Most only go by a nickname. The kid with two fingers is one, as is the 17 year old whose name (Mike?) I forget, but stroke I remember (smooth).

The second tier players are capable of winning any tournament they enter. The third tier players are capable of beating any player from anywhere. Probably only six to eight players considered first tier. And maybe a dozen who are second tier. Must be 50-100 players considered third tier. This is the perfect proving ground for a good American player like Shane VB, Shawn Putnam, Chris Bartram, Jamie Baraks or John Schmidt to improve their game.

How good would a Landon Shuffet be if he spent a year over there. And that other kid from N. Cal., same thing.

 

[ribdoner]

First echelon is guys like Orcullo, Bustamante, Reyes, Corteza, Alex & Manolo. Second tier are guys like Luat, Gabica, Kiamco, Gallego, Lining, Andam, Parica (he's slipped a notch) and Santos. Third tier has dozens of players. Guys with names like Gomez, Garcia, De Luna (maybe 2nd tier now), Jamito, Castro and many, many more. Most only go by a nickname. The kid with two fingers is one, as is the 17 year old whose name (Mike?) I forget, but stroke I remember (smooth).

The second tier players are capable of winning any tournament they enter. The third tier players are capable of beating any player from anywhere. Probably only six to eight players considered first tier. And maybe a dozen who are second tier. Must be 50-100 players considered third tier. This is the perfect proving ground for a good American player like Shane VB, Shawn Putnam, Chris Bartram, Jamie Baraks or John Schmidt to improve their game.

How good would a Landon Shuffet be if he spent a year over there. And that other kid from N. Cal., same thing.

Can any AMERICANS be slotted in the top tier or would they be relegated to 2nd tier classification?

edit to add: playing in the PHILLIPINES

 

[jay helfert]

Can any AMERICANS be slotted in the top tier or would they be relegated to 2nd tier classification?

edit to add: playing in the PHILLIPINES

Rodney, Johnny and Corey might be first tier, as they can't get weight from any of those guys. And the second tier guys would be reluctant to play them.

Now, in the Philipines, I suspect several second tier players would try them out. Without weight too. Guys like Gallego and Gabica just might be willing to play.

 

[John Barton]

Pool is high profile over there, and any big match would get gobs of publicity. As far as a $500,000 bet, I would have to see it to believe it. Maybe $50,000. NO ONE bets that high over there. $10,000 is a very big game.

In another one of these Filipinos vs. the World threads I was a little irked by the constant " tell your players to come here and they can get played" line that came up every third post. So I asked how much they can played for?

I asked if I came to Phillipines with $500,000 and wanted to bet it all on one set would they be able to cover that action. One person who posts here said he asked his father and was told that yes they would cover that bet.

Like you I certainly would have to see it to believe it. But I took that to mean that if I brought a player to the Philippines and had a suitcase full of money then they would cover the bet no matter how large. Personally I don't believe it. I don't believe that if I showed up with Rodney and said one 15 ahead set for $500,000 that they would take the bet. But they said that they would.

Now as a training ground I'd have to say the Philippines and Taiwan are the toughest places on earth to win money playing pool. And you can play triple tough opponents for relatively small stakes. If I were an up and comer I think I would have to go there and try it. As for guys like Johnny though, they don't need to go there. They play nine ball as good as anyone in the world and in any given tournament set they are as likely to win as any top tier Filipino player. IMO.

 

[jay helfert]

In another one of these Filipinos vs. the World threads I was a little irked by the constant " tell your players to come here and they can get played" line that came up every third post. So I asked how much they can played for?

I asked if I came to Phillipines with $500,000 and wanted to bet it all on one set would they be able to cover that action. One person who posts here said he asked his father and was told that yes they would cover that bet.

Like you I certainly would have to see it to believe it. But I took that to mean that if I brought a player to the Philippines and had a suitcase full of money then they would cover the bet no matter how large. Personally I don't believe it. I don't believe that if I showed up with Rodney and said one 15 ahead set for $500,000 that they would take the bet. But they said that they would.

Now as a training ground I'd have to say the Philippines and Taiwan are the toughest places on earth to win money playing pool. And you can play triple tough opponents for relatively small stakes. If I were an up and comer I think I would have to go there and try it. As for guys like Johnny though, they don't need to go there. They play nine ball as good as anyone in the world and in any given tournament set they are as likely to win as any top tier Filipino player. IMO.

Although I've never heard of a $500,000 game in the Philipines and strongly suspect there never has been one, I would be careful what I ask for. You might get it!

Probably the biggest games have been for 50 to 100K, Earl and Efren type matches. Saying that, I personally know at least two VERY wealthy men in the Philipines who love pool and support the top players and the aspiring pros. I'm sure they could raise 500K and quick! So you would go home with two suitcases full of money...or none!

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

I agree with Jay. though the P.I. seems to be one of those poorly develop countries, it doesn't necessarily mean there are no wealthy individuals who can't come up with that sum of money to finance a said matchup in a short while. besides, hosting a WPC event and creating an Asian pool tour is a no nonsense business, but they were able to finance it. John, How do you think that they were able to come up with the expenses? clearly it is not credit nor magic stuff like that of the IPT. no offense but true. don't get worried about the payment John, I'm sure they'll keep their end of the bargain. they might be just waiting to keep yours. ask for a receipt or a firsthand look whenever your ready.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

In another one of these Filipinos vs. the World threads I was a little irked by the constant " tell your players to come here and they can get played" line that came up every third post. So I asked how much they can played for?

I asked if I came to Phillipines with $500,000 and wanted to bet it all on one set would they be able to cover that action. One person who posts here said he asked his father and was told that yes they would cover that bet.

Like you I certainly would have to see it to believe it. But I took that to mean that if I brought a player to the Philippines and had a suitcase full of money then they would cover the bet no matter how large. Personally I don't believe it. I don't believe that if I showed up with Rodney and said one 15 ahead set for $500,000 that they would take the bet. But they said that they would.

Now as a training ground I'd have to say the Philippines and Taiwan are the toughest places on earth to win money playing pool. And you can play triple tough opponents for relatively small stakes. If I were an up and comer I think I would have to go there and try it. As for guys like Johnny though, they don't need to go there. They play nine ball as good as anyone in the world and in any given tournament set they are as likely to win as any top tier Filipino player. IMO.

John, you might not be aware but Johnny frequented the P.I. during the 90's. as you already know, Johnny then was already a fearsome and complete player. the top 1 or 2 player in the world along with Earl. but he chose to come to the P.I. several times to attend some matchup tourneys and personal travel for pool practice/training sessions. Imagine, a top player of the world doing some practice/training sessions in the P.I. he could have done that sort of practice in the states but why there? surely Johnny wants to learn something new or hone his skills there than in the states. you might not know this because his travels were more unspoken than publicized. as testimonial (during the WPC '06 in Manila), he mentioned something about the P.I. and how glad that he's back there after some years of absence. this would already had given you a clue about his escapades there.

 

[smashmouth]

cost of living over there is so damn cheap, i'm surprised more Americans don't make the trip for a few months

 

[John Barton]

I agree with Jay. though the P.I. seems to be one of those poorly develop countries, it doesn't necessarily mean there are no wealthy individuals who can't come up with that sum of money to finance a said matchup in a short while. besides, hosting a WPC event and creating an Asian pool tour is a no nonsense business, but they were able to finance it. John, How do you think that they were able to come up with the expenses? clearly it is not credit nor magic stuff like that of the IPT. no offense but true. don't get worried about the payment John, I'm sure they'll keep their end of the bargain. they might be just waiting to keep yours. ask for a receipt or a firsthand look whenever your ready.

I made no such inference that the Philippines couldn't come up with the money to wager. I only said that I doubt that any person or group would bet that money against Rodney Morris or Johnny Archer in 15 ahead session. And the only reason I believe this to be true is because it's too much money to risk on one world beater having a bad day while the other one has a great one.

I am not worried about anything, no need to start beating chests.

Putting on an event is far different than "betting" a huge sum on one single match. The promoters are investing in the WPC and plan to (I hope) turn a profit or break even somewhere in their business plan. Otherwise they are simply pool angels who love to spend money.

I see plenty of Hummers, Jags, Porsches and every sign of wealth you can imagine in mainland China so there is no doubt that the Philippines has it's share of wealth as well.

I remember now, it was in the Money King thread where I was underwhelmed that the two "money kings" matched up for 10 dimes. The same amount that an over the hill Incardona and a recovering John Hager are playing for in Dallas Texas right now.

I am still underwhelmed by the Money King amount. I get it that the Phillipines has a zillioin champions and I get it that $20 goes for a week on the normal economy. No need to remind me. It's just that people win more than that in bingo games and it's a teeny sum of money to be wagered officially for the official title of "Money Game King".

 

[John Barton]

John, you might not be aware but Johnny frequented the P.I. during the 90's. as you already know, Johnny then was already a fearsome and complete player. the top 1 or 2 player in the world along with Earl. but he chose to come to the P.I. several times to attend some matchup tourneys and personal travel for pool practice/training sessions. Imagine, a top player of the world doing some practice/training sessions in the P.I. he could have done that sort of practice in the states but why there? surely Johnny wants to learn something new or hone his skills there than in the states. you might not know this because his travels were more unspoken than publicized. as testimonial (during the WPC '06 in Manila), he mentioned something about the P.I. and how glad that he's back there after some years of absence. this would already had given you a clue about his escapades there.

I knew Johnny had been to PI several times in the 90's for exhibitions/challenges but I didn't know that he had simply gone there as a pool tourist.

The point remains however that there are many, many world beaters who are fully capable of beating any Filipino player in any given tournament set. So it's not as if it's just flat out necessary for the world's best players to go to the Philippines to "train" in order to win against Filipinos.

Although I have to agree that it's probably quite refreshing and humbling at the same time to be feared everywhere BUT the Philippines. As has been said many times before, where else can a champion walk in and get asked to play without getting asked for weight?

 

[gopi-1]

As has been said many times before, where else can a champion walk in and get asked to play without getting asked for weight?

Only in the Philippines!

But just to remind you John, the hustle is always on there. You might find
yourself watching two guys playing everyday for 2 weeks with guy no. 1
winning each and everytime. He comes up to you and challenge you to a
game (for money of course!) and having watched him play for 2 weeks,
you're pretty sure you can handle him so easily. You beat his a$$ off for some
chump change and the next day, here comes the 2nd guy who's always on
the losing end of the stick. He never saw you whooped the other guy's a$$
the day before was calling you out for some big action. You think is was easy
money? You think you had him by the balls or are they setting you up?

And about that $500,000. Do you know that today (MAY 14 in the Philippines),
200 times or even more of that amount changes hands back there today as
we speak? It's election day there today!