Tonight I played a marathon session at a poolhall I don't go to much. It was a pre-arranged game, me giving a decent player the 7-ball for $100 per set. I won the first set, he won the next, then I won the next two, and we decided to double the bet for the last set. It was hill-hill and he was running out, but I guess the pressure got to him and he dogged the 6-ball. He left me long and tough. A bunch of people were watching, but for some reason I wasn't feeling any pressure (I usually do at that point). The rest of the rack laid very easy if I could make the 6. When I got down on the shot, I got that feeling where you just know you are gonna make the shot. I noticed some guy approach the table and then stop. Since I acknowledged his presence, I got up and waited for him to move. He stepped back and stood still. I got down to shoot again. Right as I was about to execute the shot, he walks right in front of my shot as he is passing by, and for some reason he slaps the rail of the table with his hand, I dog the shot and the guy just continued walking. He totally threw me off doing that. Everyone in the room was saying "man that sucks" because he really sharked me. My opponent ran out from there. So we broke even for the night. I figured the guy was just some drunk guy and didn't know we were playing for money (even though there were people sitting around the table watching). So I go to my car and I put my cue in the trunk, and I'm getting ready to leave, and I realize that I left my jacket inside. Right when I walk in the door, I see the guy who sharked me talking with my opponent, and I saw them shake hands like they are buddies. I immediately realized the guy sharked me intentionally. I didn't say anything because I was by myself and I'm a fairly small guy, but needless to say that pissed me off even more. If you were in my shoes, and you were by yourself in a foreign poolhall, would you have said something, or would you just let it go? I could have won $400 but instead we broke even and I lost $60 in table time.
How Would You Handle This?
- Thread starter cuetechasaurus
- Start date
those are fighting action for me, naw just joking around but that is just not right to do. This is when i declare the two feet from the table rule, and hang my sign please no talking while shooting lol, If they did shark you that is an unbelieveable way to win and you are my hero not to say anything and keep your kewl.
I'd go back and get another game but on better terms. If the guy won't give you anymore game, I'd talk it up a little to make sure he doesn't get anybodys game.......................then I'd back off and consider myself lucky for having not lost money knowing things could have been worse.
Just my opinion, and I don't want to sound condescendant, but you might work a bit on your mental game so that sharking like that doesn't get to you. Unless the guy physically touches you, your stick, or in some way physically jams your play, you shouldn't have let his crap bother you.
dave
Just my opinion, and I don't want to sound condescendant, but you might work a bit on your mental game so that sharking like that doesn't get to you. Unless the guy physically touches you, your stick, or in some way physically jams your play, you shouldn't have let his crap bother you.
dave
Tokyo-dave said:
I figured someone might say something about how I shouldn't be sharked from that, but the guy slapped the rail on the table directly in front of my shot, making a fairly loud noise while he was walking by about not even a foot from the table. This all happened right when I was taking my execution stroke. I don't care how good anyone plays, that would shark even Efren. You also, unless you are some superhuman. I've got a fairly strong mental game as it already is, it literally takes something like that to distract me.
Tokyo-dave said:
Who do you think has a good mental game? Pros? Everyone is prone to be sharked regardless of how strong your mental game or skill level is. Try slapping or even walking by a table when a pro is shooting and see how long you are allowed near the table.
In fact there are more complaints from pros about disctractions than from your average Joe, does that mean their mental game is weak?
whitewolf said:
Same here, never play him again. The treachery and grief some of those guys and their cohorts are able to inflict is calculated and kicks in at moments like the one you mentioned. Moral of the story is to know who you are playing and have friends around.
Those who have written that it's never a good idea to go into strange bars alone and play for the cash are really onto something. Man, the stories I've heard would make a lizard's skin crawl.
Flex
If he actually touched your table in full view while you shot, that is "outside interference" IMHO and you are entitled to reshoot it. Alex got to reshoot a super critical shot at the WPC when a little kid noisily ran past the table while he was shooting and the kid was barely in his peripheral vision.
cuetechasaurus said:
You don't actually know what happened you are taking a few facts and filling in the blanks. The story makes no sense. I doubt the guy was planted there all night and at this point decides to shark you on that exact shot like some prearranged Mission Impossible plot. It is possible they began talking after you left for the first time ever, maybe as a result of what happened. Either way you should have not missed the shot sharked or not. You are playing in a public place and S%$& happens.
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There is really not much that you can "DO" after the fact.
You might pull a move the next time you play though!!!
If you are up, quit winners, and when the guy is all sorts of pissed that you quit, you can mention the fact that you didn't want to give his "team" a chance to shark you like they did the last time. It is then that you mention the shark, and the handshake that your weren't supposed to see.
At least he will know that you know. It's always good to bring backup just in case, but i know that it isn't always easy to do that.
You can't have a crew of guys just waiting for you all the time to call them and say you have a game and to come with you
PERSONALLY, i would have totally flipped out and yelled at the guy for even approaching my table the first time. Strange pool hall or not. I would have told him off. ESPECIALLY if he just walked up and stood there like a retard.
Now don't get me wrong.
I have had my fare share of sticking my foot in my mouth, and climbing out of bathroom windows and such, but those situations usually happened in SHADY areas in the middle of nowhere.
If i'm in a pool hall/bar, where i feel that the owner, or bartender or whomever is in charge, might whip out a shotgun, and tell me that i'm not welcome and blindly back his parton, those are the places that i stayed away from, and if it happened in one of those joins, i might have kept quiet.
It all depends on the pool hall, and if it was a classy joint, or a hole in the wall.
If you know the owners or not. (if they like/respect you)
Is the guy your playing known to pull stunts or not.
The crowd, and if they seemd to be in POSSE formation.
Whole lot of factors to take into consideration.
Since you didn't say anything, i would definitely pull a move next time like quitting if you're up. Or bring a whole bunch of friends that shark him constantly when he is shooting.
Once it is brought to his attention, he might have some sort of inward respect for the fact that it is deserved and just. He might not, but at least he will know that YOU know. Regardless of if a fight starts or not.
I'm pretty sure that most pool players that i know, keep a running tally of moves pulled on people as well as against.
I know that i never pull moves, unless the situation calls for them, and something has been done against me first, and it has to be a bit extreme.
If it's someone i don't particularly get along with, and then i will pull moves at any given opportunity if they start, because in my mind, they deserve it.
I know that eventually, they will be looking for payback, and when i am on the receiving end of THAT move, i am in fact smiling knowing that they just tried to even the score and i deserved it as well.
If you were to play him again, i'd have people with you, or have it happen at a cuetecasaurus friendly establishment, and know that you have a whole bunch of outs in that setting.
Just plan it carefully whatever you do, and be prepared for anything.
Do you have a lot of contact with the guy you were playing. or is it rare that you guys hooked up to play?
You might pull a move the next time you play though!!!
If you are up, quit winners, and when the guy is all sorts of pissed that you quit, you can mention the fact that you didn't want to give his "team" a chance to shark you like they did the last time. It is then that you mention the shark, and the handshake that your weren't supposed to see.
At least he will know that you know. It's always good to bring backup just in case, but i know that it isn't always easy to do that.
You can't have a crew of guys just waiting for you all the time to call them and say you have a game and to come with you
PERSONALLY, i would have totally flipped out and yelled at the guy for even approaching my table the first time. Strange pool hall or not. I would have told him off. ESPECIALLY if he just walked up and stood there like a retard.
Now don't get me wrong.
I have had my fare share of sticking my foot in my mouth, and climbing out of bathroom windows and such, but those situations usually happened in SHADY areas in the middle of nowhere.
If i'm in a pool hall/bar, where i feel that the owner, or bartender or whomever is in charge, might whip out a shotgun, and tell me that i'm not welcome and blindly back his parton, those are the places that i stayed away from, and if it happened in one of those joins, i might have kept quiet.
It all depends on the pool hall, and if it was a classy joint, or a hole in the wall.
If you know the owners or not. (if they like/respect you)
Is the guy your playing known to pull stunts or not.
The crowd, and if they seemd to be in POSSE formation.
Whole lot of factors to take into consideration.
Since you didn't say anything, i would definitely pull a move next time like quitting if you're up. Or bring a whole bunch of friends that shark him constantly when he is shooting.
Once it is brought to his attention, he might have some sort of inward respect for the fact that it is deserved and just. He might not, but at least he will know that YOU know. Regardless of if a fight starts or not.
I'm pretty sure that most pool players that i know, keep a running tally of moves pulled on people as well as against.
I know that i never pull moves, unless the situation calls for them, and something has been done against me first, and it has to be a bit extreme.
If it's someone i don't particularly get along with, and then i will pull moves at any given opportunity if they start, because in my mind, they deserve it.
I know that eventually, they will be looking for payback, and when i am on the receiving end of THAT move, i am in fact smiling knowing that they just tried to even the score and i deserved it as well.
If you were to play him again, i'd have people with you, or have it happen at a cuetecasaurus friendly establishment, and know that you have a whole bunch of outs in that setting.
Just plan it carefully whatever you do, and be prepared for anything.
Do you have a lot of contact with the guy you were playing. or is it rare that you guys hooked up to play?
I think you did the right thing in your situation, by doing nothing, be glad you broke even and were not on the other side of that 400.00. As you yourself said, your not a big guy and in the future I would suggest you do not go to unfamiliar rooms to gamble big money alone. It just is not a wise thing for anyone...I also would not gamble with this guy again and if he approaches you to do so, I would be honest about why.
I do agree with Nostroke, in that situation I would have asked to replay the entire game, since it seems everyone agreed you'd been overtly sharked.
If your opponant was on the up and up, I could not see how he could refuse that?
I do agree with Nostroke, in that situation I would have asked to replay the entire game, since it seems everyone agreed you'd been overtly sharked.
If your opponant was on the up and up, I could not see how he could refuse that?
It's a sad story, but by doing NOTHING, you acted wisely. You don't really know that the sharking was intentional.
The best lesson you can take away here is to allow anybody wishing to pass by your table to do so prior to your shot, and to begin your pre-shot routine again once they have passed. That should help ensure that you are psychologically right when its time to strike the cue ball.
If, in your heart of hearts, you believe this sharking was arranged, don't play this guy ever again.
The best lesson you can take away here is to allow anybody wishing to pass by your table to do so prior to your shot, and to begin your pre-shot routine again once they have passed. That should help ensure that you are psychologically right when its time to strike the cue ball.
If, in your heart of hearts, you believe this sharking was arranged, don't play this guy ever again.
macguy said:
I completely understand your point about busting him and having your good play be the factor that ultimately shuts him up.
I'm just a twisted person. What can i say.
I'd quit winners specifically to get under his skin, and then torture him with that fact, till he got so irrate, that he was begging me to play, and THEN i'd try to bust him. But i can guarantee that i'd have tons of moves ready to whip out at any given time.
That's just how i think. EYE FOR AN EYE.
There is quite a lot to be said for having a temendous amount of power over people. To walk into a place, and know that there are certain people going out of their minds cause they want to show you up can be quite advantageous. It is definitley entertaining.
Of the most successful gamemakers i know, Barking/Chirping/Insulting were key elements. Or they pulled a good move, and then they Barked/Chirped/Insulted them about that fact, which then set up some pretty huge scores.
But it all started with getting under their skin and pushing their buttons.
But only Cuetecasaurus can be sure what actions might be suitable for his situation.
Do you mind saying where this happened and who it was?
macguy said:
Now granted, that not saying a word and beating him would definitely have the effect that you are looking for, presenting yourself in a fashion that comes off as a class act. I understand what your saying.
BUT, in the case of guys that are notortious for pulling blatant moves on a constant basis.
Some of those guys will never be defeated just by losing.
You have to OUT MOVE them for it to register.
Now if your looking to just win the cash, then your method is by far the correct choice. But if your looking to win the cash and psychologically defeat them, then some moves might be in order, depending on the person.
I'll refer to a post i put up a while ago about Earl vs. Ginky.
In my experience, i have NEVER known a New Yorker, that doesn't have it in their power to pull a move if need be.
They don't do it all the time. Not by any means, but i think that just as a rule, they have been exposed to a lot of moves, and as a result, have them in their arsenal if need be. It's in their blood, but they can choose to use it or not.
I think that the ONLY 2 New Yorkers that i have never ever seen pull a move or heard of pulling a move, would be Tony Robles, and Steve Lipsky, which go down in my book as some of the top class acts to ever play the game.
I'd put Jonathan Smith up there as well, as he has always been extremely polite, but i haven't dealt with him as much, so i don't know for sure, but i have never witnessed or heard of anything to the contrary.
this is not to say that all New Yorkers are cheating thugs. I am only referring to the New Yorkers that i have come into contact with, and by moves, i am not just talking about blatant cheating, but the ability to not take crap from people trying to pull moves on them, and throwing it back in their faces. As in the following example.
Back to Ginky. In tournaments, he has been one of the most polite, well mannered and behaved individuals i have ever seen in tournament play.
I think that he is an an excellent role model for aspiring players that would want to emulate his behavior at the table, and just let his play state his position on things, just like Tony, or Steve, or Efren, etc etc.
So back in the day, Earl was playing Ginky on the feature table at the U.S. Open, and after every racking of the balls, Earl was banging the table and causing the 1 to roll out, and then would complain how it wasn't a good rack and make Ginky rack again. This went on a bunch of times and was quite ridiculous. If Earl hadn't banged on the table with his fist, the 1ball never would have rolled out to begin with and he could have just broken the balls. So finally. Ginky won a rack, and as he was on the sidelines waiting for Earl to rack the balls for him, he turned to his buddies with a big smile, and made a fist, and gestured that he was gonna do the pounding himself by shaking his fist up and down.
So when he went to check the balls, they were fine, and then he began the same fist pounding right next to the 1 ball, and it rolled out, to which he had a huge smug smile on his face, and shook his head from side to side...in a "NOPE, this rack isn't good" gesture.
The crowd laughed, and Earl eventually stopped the ridiculous pounding.
Now despite the fact that Ginky lost the match, he WON the move battle, and caused Earl to stop the behavior, and even after the match, people were laughing at Earl and complimenting Ginky. It wasn't demeaning to Ginky, but on the contrary...what he did was JUST and well deserved. Anyone on the sidelines watching would agree.
Now that incident hasn't tarnished Ginky in the least. I know it wasn't a full blown shark attempt, but at the same time, if he were on the recieving end of a full blown shark attempt, and he did one back. I don't think anyone would fault him.
Now i understand that we're not talking about a professional venue, and that this was a money game in a pool hall, but that's my whole point.
While I myself would go down the "get even" path, some people would choose against it.
It all depends on the situation, and i am only bringing in my point of view, which may be the right way or the wrong way.
The only one who should be concerned as to which way is best for him is Cuetecasaurus, as each method has it's appropriate time and place.
It's up to him to decide.
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In the situation that started the thread... I'd say, chalk it up to a learning experience. You may not *know* 100% that your opponent got this guy to shark you - unless you were there listening to the conversation, there's no sure way to know. But - now you know who this guy (the sharker) is. The next time you play this one guy, you'll know to a) keep an eye out for his buddy, and more importantly, b) keep an eye out for someone ELSE that your opponent may have waiting in the wings.
If you suspect someone is trying to shark you - tell the guy to keep quiet, move away, whatever. You're the shooter - you should have that right. Maybe try and out-shark the shark, if someone is being persistent - make like you're going to take the shot, but stop short, and see if your suspected shark *does* try and pull something funny. You'll know for sure at that point.
And IMHO, the best revenge you can have on your opponent, if he's trying to get other folks to mess you up, is to not *let* it mess you up. Clean his clock on the table, in a calm cool manner. Let him be the one to get flustered.
If you suspect someone is trying to shark you - tell the guy to keep quiet, move away, whatever. You're the shooter - you should have that right. Maybe try and out-shark the shark, if someone is being persistent - make like you're going to take the shot, but stop short, and see if your suspected shark *does* try and pull something funny. You'll know for sure at that point.
And IMHO, the best revenge you can have on your opponent, if he's trying to get other folks to mess you up, is to not *let* it mess you up. Clean his clock on the table, in a calm cool manner. Let him be the one to get flustered.
SUPERSTAR said:
The implication here is that you seen or heard of every other pro level player in New york pulling moves. That's a cutting and blanket criticism of the players in NYC. Rest assured, there are several other pro level players in New York that always compete with the highest level of integrity. Let's start the list with Dan Barouty.
With due respect, your post, a cheap shot at the ethics with which New Yorkers compete, is thoroughly unacceptable to me.