How Would You Handle This?

[SUPERSTAR]

The implication here is that you seen or heard of every other pro level player in New york pulling moves. That's a cutting and blanket criticism of the players in NYC. Rest assured, there are several other pro level players in New York that always compete with the highest level of integrity. Let's start the list with Dan Barouty.

With due respect, your post, a cheap shot at the ethics with which New Yorkers compete, is thoroughly unacceptable to me.

Your misunderstanding my point.
Because N.Y. city is one of the TOUGHEST cities in the coutry is what i'm talking about.
SCHOOL OF HARD KNOCKS.

I am in no way implying that those New Yorkers are bunch of cheating crooks.
Not by any means.
Just that it is a tougher city to learn pool in and as a result, they have been EXPOSED to more moves so they inherently know them, where some wetbdhindtheears newbie that hasn't left his local pool hall might not know a single move.
Do you follow my point?

 

[sjm]

Your misunderstanding my point.
Because N.Y. city is one of the TOUGHEST cities in the coutry is what i'm talking about.
SCHOOL OF HARD KNOCKS.

I am in no way implying that those New Yorkers are bunch of cheating crooks.
Not by any means.
Just that it is a tougher city to learn pool in and as a result, they have been EXPOSED to more moves so they inherently know them, where some wetbdhindtheears newbie that hasn't left his local pool hall might not know a single move.
Do you follow my point?

That may be what you meant, but it sure isn't what you wrote.

Your point that New Yorkers are more exposed to the moves than most is one I agree with.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

That may be what you meant, but it sure isn't what you wrote.

Your point that New Yorkers are more exposed to the moves than most is one I agree with.

Then my apologies for giving you that impression. I will go back and edit whatever it was that might have led you to believe that.

 

[sjm]

Then my apologies for giving you that impression. I will go back and edit whatever it was that might have led you to believe that.

Accepted in full, Superstar. Overall, yours was a pretty good post, and I think you make a very valid point. I just got caught up in one generalization that bothered me. That's just me, I guess. Thanks for following up with me with such diplomacy..

 

[lewdo26]

Your misunderstanding my point.
Because N.Y. city is one of the TOUGHEST cities in the coutry is what i'm talking about.
SCHOOL OF HARD KNOCKS.

I am in no way implying that those New Yorkers are bunch of cheating crooks.
Not by any means.
Just that it is a tougher city to learn pool in and as a result, they have been EXPOSED to more moves so they inherently know them, where some wetbdhindtheears newbie that hasn't left his local pool hall might not know a single move.
Do you follow my point?

New York. One of the toughest cities to learn pool in... hmmm... I don't know what you're basing your thesis on, but I think New York gets more of a rep for being tough than it is in reality. And the reason for that is... TV.

There is one poolroom in this town where the action gets tough. There is action elsewhere but mostly in neighborhood poolhalls which rarely receive players from other boroughs.

Everything else is friendly business. Those days are gone. If you're looking for "toughest" you'll have to go well west of the Hudson. But really, you might have to go all the way across the Pacific you know where...

 

[Cane]

Absolutely!!!

Quite the contrary, I would not only play the guy again but set up camp in his room and play him till he could not stand the sight of me.

I agree with macguy on this one... I'd become the biggest thorn in this guy side he could ever imagine. I'd also probably be looking around the room before a crucial shot to make sure his buddy isn't approaching the table.

One more thing, I'd NEVER give this guy another chance to get back even on one set. You worked a long time to get him stuck ($60 table time anywhere is a pretty lengthy session) and no way I'd let him off the hook on one set. Normally, I might, but if I felt there was even the slightest chance that his buddy intentionally sharked me, I'd get him stuck and keep him stuck and if he wanted to get even, he'd have to play for the same money all night long to get a chance to see daylight.

Bob

 

[Nostroke]

Now granted, that not saying a word and beating him would definitely have the effect that you are looking for, presenting yourself in a fashion that comes off as a class act. I understand what your saying.

BUT, in the case of guys that are notortious for pulling blatant moves on a constant basis.
Some of those guys will never be defeated just by losing.
You have to OUT MOVE them for it to register.

Now if your looking to just win the cash, then your method is by far the correct choice. But if your looking to win the cash and psychologically defeat them, then some moves might be in order, depending on the person.

I'll refer to a post i put up a while ago about Earl vs. Ginky.
In my experience, i have NEVER known a New Yorker, that doesn't have it in their power to pull a move if need be.
They don't do it all the time. Not by any means, but i think that just as a rule, they have been exposed to a lot of moves, and as a result, have them in their arsenal if need be. It's in their blood, but they can choose to use it or not.

I think that the ONLY 2 New Yorkers that i have never ever seen pull a move or heard of pulling a move, would be Tony Robles, and Steve Lipsky, which go down in my book as some of the top class acts to ever play the game.
I'd put Jonathan Smith up there as well, as he has always been extremely polite, but i haven't dealt with him as much, so i don't know for sure, but i have never witnessed or heard of anything to the contrary.
this is not to say that all New Yorkers are cheating thugs. I am only referring to the New Yorkers that i have come into contact with, and by moves, i am not just talking about blatant cheating, but the ability to not take crap from people trying to pull moves on them, and throwing it back in their faces. As in the following example.

Back to Ginky. In tournaments, he has been one of the most polite, well mannered and behaved individuals i have ever seen in tournament play.
I think that he is an an excellent role model for aspiring players that would want to emulate his behavior at the table, and just let his play state his position on things, just like Tony, or Steve, or Efren, etc etc.

So back in the day, Earl was playing Ginky on the feature table at the U.S. Open, and after every racking of the balls, Earl was banging the table and causing the 1 to roll out, and then would complain how it wasn't a good rack and make Ginky rack again. This went on a bunch of times and was quite ridiculous. If Earl hadn't banged on the table with his fist, the 1ball never would have rolled out to begin with and he could have just broken the balls. So finally. Ginky won a rack, and as he was on the sidelines waiting for Earl to rack the balls for him, he turned to his buddies with a big smile, and made a fist, and gestured that he was gonna do the pounding himself by shaking his fist up and down.

So when he went to check the balls, they were fine, and then he began the same fist pounding right next to the 1 ball, and it rolled out, to which he had a huge smug smile on his face, and shook his head from side to side...in a "NOPE, this rack isn't good" gesture.
The crowd laughed, and Earl eventually stopped the ridiculous pounding.

Now despite the fact that Ginky lost the match, he WON the move battle, and caused Earl to stop the behavior, and even after the match, people were laughing at Earl and complimenting Ginky. It wasn't demeaning to Ginky, but on the contrary...what he did was JUST and well deserved. Anyone on the sidelines watching would agree.
Now that incident hasn't tarnished Ginky in the least. I know it wasn't a full blown shark attempt, but at the same time, if he were on the recieving end of a full blown shark attempt, and he did one back. I don't think anyone would fault him.

Now i understand that we're not talking about a professional venue, and that this was a money game in a pool hall, but that's my whole point.

While I myself would go down the "get even" path, some people would choose against it.
It all depends on the situation, and i am only bringing in my point of view, which may be the right way or the wrong way.

The only one who should be concerned as to which way is best for him is Cuetecasaurus, as each method has it's appropriate time and place.

It's up to him to decide.

Good post man-I was there for the Earl/Ginky thing and it was a great moment. As i recall though, Earl didnt stop his stupididty eventually, he stopped it immediately. I've seen a ton of Earl matches and this was the only one where Earl receive his just deserts from a move standpoint. It was the hilight of the Open for me that year.

But again in this case, if the guy actually touched the table as I shot, It would be pretty tough to get me to pay up. That is over the line of reasonableness, even in a bar. I think i properly get the shot over but i probably would settle for playing the game over.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

Good post man-I was there for the Earl/Ginky thing and it was a great moment. As i recall though, Earl didnt stop his stupididty eventually, he stopped it immediately. I've seen a ton of Earl matches and this was the only one where Earl receive his just deserts from a move standpoint. It was the hilight of the Open for me that year.

RIGHT! Earl was doing it to him, and it was PERFECT when Ginky finally had enough of it, and finally busted his chops!
Earl looked like a kid that just got scolded and told to go sit in the corner.
He definitely wasn't happy. HE WAS RED, which made it even funnier.