How would you level this Gold Crown???

[Ben at Muellers]

Glen, you are exactly right about the MDF and particle board. However, I have not ran into very many situations of different thickness with MDF or particle board backed slates because they are a nominal thickness 3/4" The problem that I usually see with those slates is either water damage or being stapled to death in some commercial environment that they were not meant to be in. When ever I replace a set of those backers it is almost always with poplar and run through the wide-belt sander.

Any time I have ran into the problem that Donny was dealing with it has been someone that either bought a mismatched table from a billiard hall or bought the table from someone who bought a mismatched table from a billiard hall.

The only exceptions that I can think of have to do with a broken slates.

In any case the tables are either commercial or antique and have poplar backed slates which allows you to fix the problem with a wide-belt sander.

 

[realkingcobra]

Glen, you are exactly right about the MDF and particle board. However, I have not ran into very many situations of different thickness with MDF or particle board backed slates because they are a nominal thickness 3/4" The problem that I usually see with those slates is either water damage or being stapled to death in some commercial environment that they were not meant to be in. When ever I replace a set of those backers it is almost always with poplar and run through the wide-belt sander.

Any time I have ran into the problem that Donny was dealing with it has been someone that either bought a mismatched table from a billiard hall or bought the table from someone who bought a mismatched table from a billiard hall.

The only exceptions that I can think of have to do with a broken slates.

In any case the tables are either commercial or antique and have poplar backed slates which allows you to fix the problem with a wide-belt sander.

As far as I'm concerned, every table manufacture that uses MDF or Particle board for the slate liners...is screwing over the end buyer, because with the exception of Diamond...not one manufacture out here services the tables after the sale...so they don't have to deal with the problems of the slate liners falling apart, swelling up, or falling off in chunks...because they all feel like that's a problem created by who ever works on the tables...the "mechanic's"...and it's NOT!

Diamond is the only pocket table manufacture to date that I'm aware of that has DROPPED the use of MDF or PARTICLE board for the slate liners, in fact Diamond has changed directions entirely by designing all the tables they build to have the cloth glued down instead of stapling it...because that system...never needs replacing or repair:grin: I may have had something to do with that...I'm not really sure though:wink::wink:

Glen

 

[Donny Wessels]

You can make all of the slates match by finding someone in your area with a 36" wide wide-belt sander. Run the thicker slates through the wide-belt, slate side down, sanding the wood backer until it is the same size as the smaller one and then run all 3 pieces to make them exactly the same. I do this every time I install new wooden backers on a set of slates, works fantastic. A 36" wide-belt sander is a fairly common tool in professional wood shops and a lot of them will rent time. If you are lucky enough to find a couple in your area go with the one that has a Timesaver or SCMI unit.

Ben, I rarely do slate liner replacements, it sounds like you have more experience than me. But if your using poplar wood, wouldn't be easier to run the boards through a planer before gluing them to the slate.

 

[Ben at Muellers]

Donny

I do run all the boards individually over the jointer through the planer and wide-belt before I do any jointery (either mortise and tenon or pocket screws depending on what I am working on). Then I assemble the backer frames and pass them through the wide-belt. Finally I attach the frames to the slate via the backer screws and then pass the slate and wooden backer through the wide-belt until I get an even hit on all of the wooden backers. This probably sounds like I am taking a lot of material off but a pass through the wide-belt only takes off .015" to .001" depending on how aggressive you want to be.
With a lot of the old antiques the slates were actually slightly different in thickness and they would adjust the wooden backers to accommodate for the difference. So if you replace the backers you have to run them through the wide-belt so that the pins will line up because everything is referenced off the top of the slate.
On the Gold Crown you were dealing with it looked like the smaller slate was about an 1/8" (.125")smaller that would mean you would have to pass the larger slates through the wide-belt about 8 or so times each before you passed all 3 slates through making them all exactly the same thickness.

Holy crap this my 3rd post today. That's an all time record for me.

 

[realkingcobra]

Donny

I do run all the boards individually over the jointer through the planer and wide-belt before I do any jointery (either mortise and tenon or pocket screws depending on what I am working on). Then I assemble the backer frames and pass them through the wide-belt. Finally I attach the frames to the slate via the backer screws and then pass the slate and wooden backer through the wide-belt until I get an even hit on all of the wooden backers. This probably sounds like I am taking a lot of material off but a pass through the wide-belt only takes off .015" to .001" depending on how aggressive you want to be.
With a lot of the old antiques the slates were actually slightly different in thickness and they would adjust the wooden backers to accommodate for the difference. So if you replace the backers you have to run them through the wide-belt so that the pins will line up because everything is referenced off the top of the slate.
On the Gold Crown you were dealing with it looked like the smaller slate was about an 1/8" (.125")smaller that would mean you would have to pass the larger slates through the wide-belt about 8 or so times each before you passed all 3 slates through making them all exactly the same thickness.

Holy crap this my 3rd post today. That's an all time record for me.

If I was going to run them slates though a wide belt sander to true them up so to speak, in stead of trying to match the end slates to the center slate for thickness, I'd glue some 3/16" plywood to the center slate, then bring it down to the same thickness of the end slates, that way I wouldn't be removing hardly any MDF from the end slates to get them all the same thickness:wink:

 

[Ben at Muellers]

Glen

If those slate backers are MDF I would totally agree with your last post. I was under the assumption that the backers were poplar. I think we both can agree that MDF has no business being a slate backer on any commercial table.

 

[realkingcobra]

Glen

If those slate backers are MDF I would totally agree with your last post. I was under the assumption that the backers were poplar. I think we both can agree that MDF has no business being a slate backer on any commercial table.

I assure you they're backed with MDF, if you look at the slate with the chip in it, you can even see were the MDF is already starting to split down the middle. And if you feel like MDF shouldn't be used on commercial tables, why would you think it's OK to use on home style tables, unless they're junk tables from the start. MDF is really only good for about 4-5 recoveries in the first place, then from inserting pocket screws and stapling into the side of it, it blows apart. As far as I'm concerned, it's the weakest link on most all pool tables today. Tables can be built cheap enough already that MDF or particle board don't have to be used, all it does is sabotage the table down the road, especially with mechanics that don't know what they're doing in the first place.