How Would You Play This? 8ball CSI 2014 Finals

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So, I've been watching a lot of barbox 8ball lately and decided to watch this gem. Deuel and Appleton play near flawless pool for most of the set only to have it come down to an unfortunate ending. Appleton gets hooked, fails to get out and Deuel wins. The camera angle isn't great for evaluation but wondered what others thought of Appleton's approach here. Would you have done things differently? Hindsight is always 20/20. I'll admit right now, there's a strong likelihood I would have gone the same way he did but given the outcome, I think there may have been a few other options available to him.

Thoughts?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yZ8o1JGrSA&t=5685
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
Low left on the 9-ball....same pocket...three rails for the 8-ball in the side.
...this gives you a huge area to park whitey in.
 

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Low left on the 9-ball....same pocket...three rails for the 8-ball in the side.
...this gives you a huge area to park whitey in.

I think you're referring to the 14-ball. The 9-ball is off the table. As well, wondering how you might play the 11-ball since it's the position on the 14 that got him in trouble in the first place.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
I think you're referring to the 14-ball. The 9-ball is off the table. As well, wondering how you might play the 11-ball since it's the position on the 14 that got him in trouble in the first place.

Aha, it was indeed the 14-ball...I made a Cyclopian mistake. :eek:

I'm gonna play the 11-ball the same way....going this route, you never
get hooked.
High right gets you ideal position, but sometimes leaves you kicking.
 

DAVE_M

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My first thought was to draw the cue ball back a few inches, then thought how hard it would be jacked up over the 8. So I thought of low left to get behind the 14 and shoot it in the same corner as the 11; or shoot high right and try to run into the 2. Darren judged the speed badly, that's all. As they say, once you're out of line, it's hard to get back in line.
 

nine_ball6970

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So, I've been watching a lot of barbox 8ball lately and decided to watch this gem. Deuel and Appleton play near flawless pool for most of the set only to have it come down to an unfortunate ending. Appleton gets hooked, fails to get out and Deuel wins. The camera angle isn't great for evaluation but wondered what others thought of Appleton's approach here. Would you have done things differently? Hindsight is always 20/20. I'll admit right now, there's a strong likelihood I would have gone the same way he did but given the outcome, I think there may have been a few other options available to him.

Thoughts?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yZ8o1JGrSA&t=5685

Low left and float the cue ball over just above the 5. Play last ball top right corner and you have 8 straight in the side.

I do not like the way he played it because the angle is too steep trying to thread between his ball and the 2. Speed control has to be absolutely perfect and you are back cutting pretty much no matter what. I do not like shooting that shot with all of the traffic he has to contend with.
 

efirkey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's hard to question a champion like Appleton. He is probably the best 8 ball player on the planet.
 

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's hard to question a champion like Appleton. He is probably the best 8 ball player on the planet.

While I agree with you about Appleton's abilities, I don't think you should ever feel uncomfortable questioning any pro's decisions. Appleton is a great player and I would never question that. He failed to get out and truthfully, I don't think he had to fail. I think that's fair.
 

Aaron_S

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't have a problem with the way Daz played the 11-ball. I think I would have played the same shot, but I might have tried to play it a little tighter to the 2-ball, knowing that glancing off of the right side of it wouldn't be fatal. The speed certainly wouldn't have been as critical as it was on the angle he played.

Two other viable shots I'm seeing right now are:

1) Play the 11 with high inside, pass between the 4 and the left long rail, and try to hit the window between the 8 and 2. I would use the left side pocket as a target for position on that shot, as it appears to be in the middle of the window.

2) Stun or spin into the 5, replacing it with the cueball and leaving a long cut up in the corner.

I would be fine with someone choosing either of those shots as well.

Where I think Darren made a mistake is on the 14-ball. That is, assuming there is room to pocket the 8 between the 4 and 2 - at this camera angle it looks like you could drive a truck through there. Given how much he had to turn the cb loose on the back cut, I think the better shot would have been to play the 14 in the bottom left at pocket speed and come up 2 rails for the 8 in the same hole. I think that cut is every bit as easy as the back cut, and it would have given him a lot of room to run with the cueball with virtually no chance of getting hooked.

Aaron
 

Aaron_S

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Low left and float the cue ball over just above the 5. Play last ball top right corner and you have 8 straight in the side.

I do not like the way he played it because the angle is too steep trying to thread between his ball and the 2. Speed control has to be absolutely perfect and you are back cutting pretty much no matter what. I do not like shooting that shot with all of the traffic he has to contend with.

I don't mind this shot either, but I think if I try to float over I go all the way to the rail and play the 14 in the left side pocket. I think that gives you a little more running room with the cueball, you don't have to worry about being jacked up over the 5, and you still have no difficulty in getting on the 8, even if you do get frozen to the rail.

Aaron
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would have played the entire rack differently. I feel that the way he played it, he was asking for trouble near the end of the rack, and he got what he was asking for.

That said, when he shot that ball into the corner (three balls left), he should have drawn back up towards the side pocket and took the ball near the 8 as his second to last ball.
 

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't have a problem with the way Daz played the 11-ball. I think I would have played the same shot, but I might have tried to play it a little tighter to the 2-ball, knowing that glancing off of the right side of it wouldn't be fatal. The speed certainly wouldn't have been as critical as it was on the angle he played.

Two other viable shots I'm seeing right now are:

1) Play the 11 with high inside, pass between the 4 and the left long rail, and try to hit the window between the 8 and 2. I would use the left side pocket as a target for position on that shot, as it appears to be in the middle of the window.

2) Stun or spin into the 5, replacing it with the cueball and leaving a long cut up in the corner.

I would be fine with someone choosing either of those shots as well.

Where I think Darren made a mistake is on the 14-ball. That is, assuming there is room to pocket the 8 between the 4 and 2 - at this camera angle it looks like you could drive a truck through there. Given how much he had to turn the cb loose on the back cut, I think the better shot would have been to play the 14 in the bottom left at pocket speed and come up 2 rails for the 8 in the same hole. I think that cut is every bit as easy as the back cut, and it would have given him a lot of room to run with the cueball with virtually no chance of getting hooked.

Aaron

I like running into the 5. Honestly, that's probably the way I would go. My only concern there is insuring I hit the top of the 5 and not the bottom. If I hit the bottom, I'm likely frozen to the rail. Hit the top and I'm out like a fat kid at diet camp.
 

decent dennis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think you're referring to the 14-ball. The 9-ball is off the table. As well, wondering how you might play the 11-ball since it's the position on the 14 that got him in trouble in the first place.

Actuallhe got in trouble the shot before. With three balls on the table, after shooting one off ,if you can only see one of two, your in trouble
I would have slow rolled the last ball in the other corner pocket.
 

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would have played the entire rack differently. I feel that the way he played it, he was asking for trouble near the end of the rack, and he got what he was asking for.

That said, when he shot that ball into the corner (three balls left), he should have drawn back up towards the side pocket and took the ball near the 8 as his second to last ball.

Yeah, honestly I thought he was going to do something like this too. I was a little surprised he chose to break them open.
 

Aaron_S

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I like running into the 5. Honestly, that's probably the way I would go. My only concern there is insuring I hit the top of the 5 and not the bottom. If I hit the bottom, I'm likely frozen to the rail. Hit the top and I'm out like a fat kid at diet camp.

Yeah, I like that shot fine.

Would you have played the back cut on the 14 if you had ended up where he did? I know he was kinda unlucky getting hooked on the 8, but I'm still surprised he played it that way when he had a route with no traffic.

Aaron
 

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yeah, I like that shot fine.

Would you have played the back cut on the 14 if you had ended up where he did? I know he was kinda unlucky getting hooked on the 8, but I'm still surprised he played it that way when he had a route with no traffic.

Aaron

I simply don't see how he CAN'T get hooked playing the back-cut. There's just no window. Playing the 14 in the same pocket may not leave you perfect since your focus is on not scratching but you can insure you'll get a clear shot at the 8.
 

Aaron_S

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I simply don't see how he CAN'T get hooked playing the back-cut. There's just no window. Playing the 14 in the same pocket may not leave you perfect since your focus is on not scratching but you can insure you'll get a clear shot at the 8.

Well, he points at the foot rail where he thinks he going to hit, and he put inside on the cueball. I think he believed he could shorten it up a bit and come between the 4 and the long rail. I don't know why the thought he could hit the foot rail there, since it appeared he over cut the 14 and still landed 4-6" to the left of his mark. I'm sure he didn't think he was going to run into balls, but it was a colossal misjudgment for an elite player.

Aaron
 

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
I like running into the 5. Honestly, that's probably the way I would go. My only concern there is insuring I hit the top of the 5 and not the bottom. If I hit the bottom, I'm likely frozen to the rail. Hit the top and I'm out like a fat kid at diet camp.

...assuming the 5 doesn't tie up with the 14 or 8. Drawing or stunning into the 5 is going to require decent speed. The 5 becomes a loose cannon.
 

railbird99

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Where I think Darren made a mistake is on the 14-ball. That is, assuming there is room to pocket the 8 between the 4 and 2 - at this camera angle it looks like you could drive a truck through there. Given how much he had to turn the cb loose on the back cut, I think the better shot would have been to play the 14 in the bottom left at pocket speed and come up 2 rails for the 8 in the same hole. I think that cut is every bit as easy as the back cut, and it would have given him a lot of room to run with the cueball with virtually no chance of getting hooked.

Our vantage point doesn't allow us to see the exact angle, but I'm pretty sure the issue with cutting the 14 in the other corner is the scratch. That's if he just rolled it in using center or top. I'm sure if it wasn't a scratch shot, that's the shot he would have chosen, rather than taking such a thin cut and flirting with the traffic on the other side of the table.

I still like cutting the 14 in that corner like you said, but it probably required hitting with a little more speed and drawing the cue ball to the side rail to miss the scratch (and maybe a little outside english), then coming off the short rail back up for a less than ideal cut on the 8 in the left side.

I think that was the shot, given we got to see how the angle on the other shot played out. I think Darren was confident in how he saw the angle, but in reality he misjudged it.
 

dabarbr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Low left on the 9-ball....same pocket...three rails for the 8-ball in the side.
...this gives you a huge area to park whitey in.

I agree. That's the way I thought He was gong to play the last ball before the eight. No traffic going that way. Maybe he thought the cut too great to be able to reach the long rail with the cue ball. To me it looked like it was doable.
 
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