How Would You Play This? Tough Leave on the 9

Jude Rosenstock

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This shot was provided to me by George "Ginky" SanSoucci which should be a hint to anyone that has seen what he does best.


The game is 9-ball though obviously, this could apply to any game where the last ball will win/lose it for you.

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Edited out because I don't know what I'm doing with CueTable...
 
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Something like this should be sufficient. A safe in this scenario is the best play I think. The key, however, is not catching the sidepocket at all with the 9 ball and of course the speed control to put the 9 against the rail and the cue ball against the other rail.

Once I learned these types of safties (object ball on long rail and striking with enough angle to put it on the bottom rail), they became invaluable. JMO.
 
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BigCat said:

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Something like this should be sufficient. A safe in this scenario is the best play I think. The key, however, is not catching the sidepocket at all with the 9 ball and of course the speed control to put the 9 against the rail and the cue ball against the other rail.

Once I learned these types of safties (object ball on long rail and striking with enough angle to put it on the bottom rail), they became invaluable. JMO.
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Two major tournaments in a row I played that shot against Ernie Martinez (the cue maker) and in both cases I laid it down perfectly and he made the 9 from there. Once was an honest bank, the other he missed the bank but it went in after some extra rails. Both times it was hill-hill. Once was in the finals of a tourney and the next was to see who won the hill of the Co. state open 9-ball tourney. We both lost to James Hilzier after that match.

I still play it the same way when it comes up though. Good call.

Cheers,
RC
 
BigCat said:
Something like this should be sufficient. A safe in this scenario is the best play I think. The key, however, is not catching the sidepocket at all with the 9 ball and of course the speed control to put the 9 against the rail and the cue ball against the other rail.

Once I learned these types of safties (object ball on long rail and striking with enough angle to put it on the bottom rail), they became invaluable. JMO.
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Wow, that didn't take long. This answer is absolutely correct. Excellent shot, sir.
 
RRfireblade said:
Unless I'm missing something , is it not just a dead bank ?
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There's simply no way to avoid the doube-kiss (by design). There are other offensive and defensive plays one could consider but the one posted by BigCat is probably best.
 
Hard tell from the drawing then. Looks like a firm bank to shorten it slightly. Guess I'd have to see it in person.
 
Hi Jude:

I saw it and didn't have a chance to ask what you or Ginky thought of this...

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What's her name again? looks like you have a good student!
 
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cuetable said:
Hi Jude:

I saw it and didn't have a chance to ask what you or Ginky thought of this...

CueTable Help



What's her name again? looks like you have a good student!
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If safe is the game , then there are a few ways to achieve the same result. What ever you feel comfortable with under pressure IMO. :)
 
cuetable said:
Hi Jude:

I was there playing on the next table. I didn't have a chance to ask what you or Ginky thought of this...

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What's her name again? looks like you have a good student!
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I asked Ginky about this play since it's a very common one. His response was simple - You should commit to playing safe and not try the two-way shot here.

I tried it a couple times and frankly, there is a reasonable chance you'll leave a negative result.
 
cuetable said:
Hi Jude:

I saw it and didn't have a chance to ask what you or Ginky thought of this...

CueTable Help



What's her name again? looks like you have a good student!
Click to expand...


Wow, I had this EXACT same leave on the eight ball in league tonight. I marked the bottom right corner pocket, just in case, and I made sure I banked it short. Perfect outcome, eight ball on the rail at the middle diamond, cue ball about 6 inches off the rail at the middle diamond. I expected my opponent to bank me safe on the long rail in the same manner as he was a decent shot. Instead he fired for a full table bank and hung it, easy shot for the win for me.
 
cuetable said:
Hi Jude:

I saw it and didn't have a chance to ask what you or Ginky thought of this...

CueTable Help



What's her name again? looks like you have a good student!
Click to expand...

This is how I'm playing it. Play the cross corner bank, though, and favor the short side. My guess is that the cue ball will go another 18-24 inches on, more or less, the path shown. I'll rarely pass up a two way shot for a straight safety unless the straight safety offers much better defense than the pro-side miss would, which is clearly not the case here. This is really all about your own comfort zone, and if you are as comfortable with this two way bank as I am, you should go for it. If you're not, I agree with the choice recommended by Jude.
 
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sjm said:
This is how I'm playing it. Play the cross corner bank, though, and favor the short side. I'll rarely pass up a two way shot for a straight safety unless the straight safety offers far better defense than the pro-side miss would, which is clearly not the case here. This is really all about your own comfort zone, and if you are as comfrotable with this two way bank as I am, you should go for it. If you're not, I agree with the choice recommended by Jude.
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At the risk of sounding completely pool-ignorant, I know you guys will be gentle after I ask this question:D My question is in regards to the term "two-way shot". My assumption, as I am not sure of the definition, is that this means you are trying to make the shot, while knowing that if you miss you will still leave a safety? Is this what it means?

Thanks in advance!:confused:
 
lodini said:
At the risk of sounding completely pool-ignorant, I know you guys will be gentle after I ask this question:D My question is in regards to the term "two-way shot". My assumption, as I am not sure of the definition, is that this means you are trying to make the shot, while knowing that if you miss you will still leave a safety? Is this what it means?

Thanks in advance!:confused:
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A two-way shot is a shot that could have two positive outcomes. Typically, this means a positive offensive and positive defensive outcome. In otherwords, if you miss this shot, you likely will not leave much.
 
lodini said:
At the risk of sounding completely pool-ignorant, I know you guys will be gentle after I ask this question:D My question is in regards to the term "two-way shot". My assumption, as I am not sure of the definition, is that this means you are trying to make the shot, while knowing that if you miss you will still leave a safety? Is this what it means?

Thanks in advance!:confused:
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That is exactly what it means. And in this case the reason that the two way shot is bad is because you will hang the ball near the pocket on a near miss more often than pocketing the ball IMO.
 
Yes. Basically if you do make it your good with position and/or if you miss it , the opponent is hooked or safe some way.
 
lodini said:
At the risk of sounding completely pool-ignorant, I know you guys will be gentle after I ask this question:D My question is in regards to the term "two-way shot". My assumption, as I am not sure of the definition, is that this means you are trying to make the shot, while knowing that if you miss you will still leave a safety? Is this what it means?

Thanks in advance!:confused:
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Yes, that is, in rough terms, what it means. In more general terms, any shot in which more than one foreseeable outcome may be favorable would qualify. For example, I might try to carom in the nine as I pocket the three ball, and that could qualify as a two way shot.

Hey, thanks for paying us a visit here in NYC. Hope you had fun. Come back soon.
 
cuetable said:
Hi Jude:

I saw it and didn't have a chance to ask what you or Ginky thought of this...

CueTable Help



What's her name again? looks like you have a good student!
Click to expand...

I like this shot as well. For me, it's easier to leave the 9 in the right place using the 2 rails, rather than cutting it thinner like in the first version of the shot that was posted. The CB control part is quite easy in both cases, but a little safer in the second one. In the first case, nerves could make you over-stroke it or you could hit a little too thick, and taking the CB two rails to the left end all the sudden contains some risk of scratch.

I don't think you can call it a 2-way shot, though. If you want to give the 9 a good chance to drop cross-corner, you're increasing the risk of hitting the pocket jaws and selling out by quite a lot. You have to focus on missing (on the short side of course) in order to be sure you don't leave an easy direct shot.

-Andrew
 
Can someone post a JPEG of Judes layout?

Since changing computers I have not been able to view Cuetable.
Strange.... i have tried almost everything.
 
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