How's the layout? Would you play here? Need opinions please!
- Thread starter drenkel
- Start date
Thanks again for all the tips. Here are some pics of the revised layout based off your input. I did lose one pool table but I gained a lot more seating.
I lost the lounge and put in a segregated place for the 9 footers for serious play. I added openings / half walls in this area so it don't feel closed off.
By moving the 9 footers I was able to add a lot more seating and space out the 7 footers in the main area. Tons of seating now, and it looks like it will flow better.
On the left side I lost a table, but that allowed me to put in plenty of seating over there as well.
Any more thoughts or opinions?
I lost the lounge and put in a segregated place for the 9 footers for serious play. I added openings / half walls in this area so it don't feel closed off.
By moving the 9 footers I was able to add a lot more seating and space out the 7 footers in the main area. Tons of seating now, and it looks like it will flow better.
On the left side I lost a table, but that allowed me to put in plenty of seating over there as well.
Any more thoughts or opinions?
You should do almost anything not to lose a table. The reason is, a pool room has only so many peak hours in the course of any given week. There will be many times when you will have half the tables open and it will look like it doesn't matter but that is not how it works.Thanks again for all the tips. Here are some pics of the revised layout based off your input. I did lose one pool table but I gained a lot more seating.
I lost the lounge and put in a segregated place for the 9 footers for serious play. I added openings / half walls in this area so it don't feel closed off.
By moving the 9 footers I was able to add a lot more seating and space out the 7 footers in the main area. Tons of seating now, and it looks like it will flow better.
On the left side I lost a table, but that allowed me to put in plenty of seating over there as well.
Any more thoughts or opinions?
When you get busy you need to be able to pump every dollar out of every peak hour you can. There will be times you wish you had 30 tables. When all is said and done you may only really be in the black by Saturday that is when you make "YOUR" money the rest of the time you are just making the nut.
You figure it out. Take your perspective cost of operating and you may find you spend the first three weeks of every month trying to pay the bills before there is anything is left for you. When you get all this on paper it can be sobering if not frighting. I had a friend who owned a very popular bowling alley. He told me at the end of the year all he really sees as profit is what the bar produced. I could not believe it till he showed me the figures. A business can often be a money churn, giving the illusion of making profit because a lot of money goes through your hands but in reality makes very little.
I think in this case the lost table is worth it. I have plenty of seating for league now which is really big in my town. By having the proper seating I should be able to get the majority of all the league games at my venue, which will completely pack the house Tue. & Wed. If I don't get the leagues in there I will be very slow on those two days.
I'm still concerned about the location of the restrooms. It's a PITA both to the person and the other players to have to walk past so many other tables to get to the head. I suppose a lot depends upon existing plumbing though. (at my age and in my health, trips to the restroom can be exhausting 
).
).
Unfortunately I have to leave the bathrooms just where they are. You'd have to knock part of the building down just to get a backhoe in there to dig down 8' below the slab. After rebuilding everything and paying the astronomical fee the plumbers would want I wouldn't be able to afford the pool tables =P
Is depending on getting those leagues an important part of your business plan? Will not getting them put you in any jeopardy or just an inconvenience? This is not referring to the lost table anymore but to having to depend on an unknown factor you may have no control over that may jeopardize your business. Why are you so sure that those two nights would be so slow without the leagues? If that is the case what do you predict for Monday and Thursday, is there a reason they would be better? I am also curious, you have a lot of what most would call bar tables, are you buying these tables or are they being put in by a vendor with a split?
If we don't get the leagues it would not put us in jeopardy. However, I do want them badly because I've done the research on other places in my area and if you are not league friendly you are always slow on Tue & Wed. I'm pretty confident we can win the league business though. We will have many things going for us the competition don't: Better tables, Full Bar, Cheap Beer ($1.50 drafts vs their $3.00 bottles), and a bigger and better venue. The main place in town all the league games are being played at right now, uses fold up tables and chairs squished along the walls to pack them in like sardines. They all go there though because there isnt a better option. Soon they will have an alternative
I predict Monday to be very slow, Thursday should be good though. We are going to do some activities, have drink specials and other fun stuff to get people in the doors that night. Friday & Sat should be packed because of the tourneys.
No split on the tables, I'm buying them directly from Diamond. All the profits will be mine.
Last edited:
I have an anecdote, then a question. Years ago when Disco became popular I owned a place a seriously thought about making into a disco. I did some research and was shocked to learn the truth. I went to discos outside my area and actually interview the owners, some would talk to me and many would not. What I learned was it was a total illusion. The places were packed wall to wall with people who were not spending any money. They paid a cover and two drink minimum and that was all you got from them as they danced and hooked up at your expense. These places began to close one after another. I met one guy who had an already failed disco he turned into a country and western place. He told me it was the best thing he ever did it was a complete different kind of clientele then he was used to but they spent with both hands.
My point is, do leagues really spend money? Are they really the vein to a gold mine or an illusion? I have a feeling they are not the big score people on the outside would think from just looking. A lot of activity does not necessarily mean money in you pocket. I am in a few minutes going to a small bar tournament they have every Thursday night near me and I can tell you, none of the people who come in spend a dime and they don't come back during the rest of the week. I hope you don't think I am giving you a hard time or anything but there are a lot of guys on here who have been doing this stuff or a long time.
I don't think your giving me a hard time at all. I really appreciate your comments because you give me perspective, and make me think of things I might not have though of otherwise.
I've sat and watched league nights at the other places here in town.
1) They are selling a beer a minute
2) They are selling a soda every 5 minutes
3) The tables average 12-14 games per hour (.75 cents per)
4) League lasts about 5 hours per night
Over a 5 hour period profit appears to be:
Beer = $300
Sodas = $60
Table Time = $845
Estimated gross profit just from league business: $1205 per session
At 8 sessions a month that's $9640
The competition only has 9 tables, and if you try to go in there as a casual player you are turned away because all the tables are reserved for league. I will be able to better service the leagues, AND still be able to provide tables for the regular players.
I've sat and watched league nights at the other places here in town.
1) They are selling a beer a minute
2) They are selling a soda every 5 minutes
3) The tables average 12-14 games per hour (.75 cents per)
4) League lasts about 5 hours per night
Over a 5 hour period profit appears to be:
Beer = $300
Sodas = $60
Table Time = $845
Estimated gross profit just from league business: $1205 per session
At 8 sessions a month that's $9640
The competition only has 9 tables, and if you try to go in there as a casual player you are turned away because all the tables are reserved for league. I will be able to better service the leagues, AND still be able to provide tables for the regular players.
I haven't played on many leagues, but usually the tables were open up for league night even practice, N/C. Your players are going to have to pay out $845. in table time for league night? Do all the other places charge? Did I misunderstand what you were saying,
how many players will be this divided among?
League play is not free in my area. All the other places charge for this. The place with only 9 tables gets 70+ people in there for league Tue & Wed.
I would offer free practice only to the teams I sponsor.
Something else to think about.... you will quickly find out who your serious and/or regular players are. Think about giving them a club membership or something so they can afford to come in and practice. In the long run, they will spend a lot more on a few drinks over time than they would if they weren't even there because they couldn't afford to practice.
I'm getting the Diamond Smart Tables. There is a key that can be turned to make it free flow the balls. All the regular players will be offered hourly rates to make things affordable for them.
Something else to think about.... you will quickly find out who your serious and/or regular players are. Think about giving them a club membership or something so they can afford to come in and practice. In the long run, they will spend a lot more on a few drinks over time than they would if they weren't even there because they couldn't afford to practice.
Actually, here in Japan, every pool hall has membership available. You pay like 20 or 30 bucks as a one time membership fee but that knocks a buck fifty off each hour of your table time. It pays itself off pretty quick if you play a lot. It also attracts the people that are first time customers, think it would be cool to have a members card, then hardly ever show up again. You may also want to consider separate pricing for men and women. That is standard here in Japan too. Women are like 2 bucks per hour cheaper than men.
MULLY
I'll look into the membership idea, thanks for the tip.
Can anyone else comment on the layout? Look good now?
If you have the time, you should come visit us in New York City. We just celebrated our 1 year anniversary at Society Billiards & Bar and although we are an entirely different type of room, I'm sure you can get a few ideas. Our website is www.societybilliards.com.
It's difficult for me to get a sense of what's right and wrong from this diagram. You appear to have a lot of extra space in my opinion. So much so, I think you should consider adding a few pooltables and perhaps a pro shop with lathe.
I think I know where the bar is but I'm not sure where you plan on storing your beer. The further away the beer kegs are from the bar, the more beer you'll lose when it comes time to cleaning the lines.
I also hate the walls. From a manager's perspective, this is only going to lead to trouble. Every scumbag that walks into your place is going to immediately take advantage of all the blindspots. If you don't need them, get rid of them.
Overall, I do like the intimacy you're creating. The grouped pool tables breaks up the room nicely. Each area has a sort of arena feeling to it. I grew up playing in rooms that simply had two long rows of tables so seeing a lay-out like this is refreshing.
Good luck to you. Like I said, you're welcome to visit us in NYC. We're a fully modern facility from front to back. Perhaps we can have a casual meeting and discuss some of the things you'll want to consider and avoid.
Looking at your plans and how you said earlier that you would like to get the leagues in your area to be playing at your place, you said that there were 70 players in the league so I figure that is 14 5 person teams that would take up 7 tables.
Where would they all sit and where would they play? If you use the main room for all the league play then the extra tables more than likely wouldnt be able to be used by customers because of the crowd and no seating for the extra tables because league players and whoever else (spouses, friends, whomever) would be using those seats.
If there are 70 players, Im sure some come with wifes and girlfriends so that is even more than 70 seats needed around 7 tables.
Didnt know if you thought about maybe having a two level grandstand style seating against the back section of the main room and maybe a two level section facing each way (back to back) instead of the chairs in those sections. Unfortunately neither website has photos of them, but like the ones at Hardtimes Billiards in Bellflower California or Q-Masters in Virginia.
Just an idea of getting more seating without loosing a lot more valuable space.
Where would they all sit and where would they play? If you use the main room for all the league play then the extra tables more than likely wouldnt be able to be used by customers because of the crowd and no seating for the extra tables because league players and whoever else (spouses, friends, whomever) would be using those seats.
If there are 70 players, Im sure some come with wifes and girlfriends so that is even more than 70 seats needed around 7 tables.
Didnt know if you thought about maybe having a two level grandstand style seating against the back section of the main room and maybe a two level section facing each way (back to back) instead of the chairs in those sections. Unfortunately neither website has photos of them, but like the ones at Hardtimes Billiards in Bellflower California or Q-Masters in Virginia.
Just an idea of getting more seating without loosing a lot more valuable space.
There are 143 chairs on the floor now. Plus take into consideration that people will be shooting, and others will be wondering around. I think we could comfortably fit 175-200 people in here. There are only 5 people on a team with an alternate. I've tried to arrange the tables so there are at least 10 chairs near each table. Do you really think I need more seating still?
The room is 8500 SQFT. The wall that separates the main room from the three tables on the left is a main support and can not be removed. I am cutting 3 6' arches into it to open it up, but I can't do much more without compromising the integrity of the structure.
I agree, I grew up playing on 9 footers as well. You have to provide what your market demands though
Last edited: