hustle spots

V

Varsity2016

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
what types of spots are really hustle spots...

like in pool hall junkies the guy gives him 3 balls off the break

i was also wondering how big of a spot is the call 8, can i give someone the call 8 that i play a little bit better than or is it too big of a spot
 
Varsity2016 said:
what types of spots are really hustle spots...

like in pool hall junkies the guy gives him 3 balls off the break

i was also wondering how big of a spot is the call 8, can i give someone the call 8 that i play a little bit better than or is it too big of a spot
Click to expand...

A hustle spot is usually less then the player (sucker) needs to win. Giving weight is the best, it multiplies the number of players you potentially have to play. In most cases it is easier then playing really tough action even since the spot can't make the lesser player a better player or smarter player it just means he may win a few more games then he would have won without it but that is about it. It used to be called "Lamb Killing" and is most of the time easy money. For a really high powered player, they can offer weight to even good players that are not used to being offered weight and can't resist giving it a try usually losing their money. Spots are an important part of the game it is how games happen. Without spots no one would ever play since you usually know who is the better player. I laugh when I hear players say "I never give spots" they would get to play a whole lot more if they did.
 
Andrew Manning said:
I can't figure out why that would be. Can anyone enlighten me?

-Andrew
Click to expand...


IMO, if you are good enough to be giving someone that kind of spot, you most likely wanna get that ball off the table quickest, and unless my college math is off, 5 comes before 6....

And if you're giving someone the 5, the likelihood that they can consistantly run to the 5 are probably fairly small, so either way, you're still sittin in a good position
 
BigRed said:
IMO, if you are good enough to be giving someone that kind of spot, you most likely wanna get that ball off the table quickest, and unless my college math is off, 5 comes before 6....

And if you're giving someone the 5, the likelihood that they can consistantly run to the 5 are probably fairly small, so either way, you're still sittin in a good position
Click to expand...

I see, so what you're saying is if they're really bad, the only way they're likely to win is if you have a poorly-timed miss and leave them on their money ball, or with a very easy run to it. And if you're decently good, you're more likely to miss after the five ball than before it. I guess that makes sense, but it seems like it would only be valid logic if the other player really couldn't reliably run two or three balls.

-Andrew
 
Andrew Manning said:
I see, so what you're saying is if they're really bad, the only way they're likely to win is if you have a poorly-timed miss and leave them on their money ball, or with a very easy run to it. And if you're decently good, you're more likely to miss after the five ball than before it. I guess that makes sense, but it seems like it would only be valid logic if the other player really couldn't reliably run two or three balls.

-Andrew
Click to expand...
The 5 is a shorter run then the 6 and a bigger spot. I don't understand what he is saying.
 
macguy said:
The 5 is a shorter run then the 6 and a bigger spot. I don't understand what he is saying.
Click to expand...


Yes it is, but if you're giving someone the 5, i'd imagine that one of two things are true:
1. You are a consistant rack runner and/or
2. Your opponent is very weak


It is also easier for you to get to the 5 ball and either clear it off the table or play safe than it is to get to the 6 ball and clear it or play safe
 
BigRed said:
Yes it is, but if you're giving someone the 5, i'd imagine that one of two things are true:
1. You are a consistant rack runner and/or
2. Your opponent is very weak


It is also easier for you to get to the 5 ball and either clear it off the table or play safe than it is to get to the 6 ball and clear it or play safe
Click to expand...

Has no bearing, it only matters how much easier it is for the player getting the spot, how you play doesn't matter. The great thing about getting the 5 is no matter when the player getting the spot comes to the table he is only a few balls from the win. You have to play pretty good to give up the 5 to anyone even a sucker you can almost never miss or you will lose.
 
macguy said:
Has no bearing, it only matters how much easier it is for the player getting the spot, how you play doesn't matter. The great thing about getting the 5 is no matter when the player getting the spot comes to the table he is only a few balls from the win. You have to play pretty good to give up the 5 to anyone even a sucker you can almost never miss or you will lose.
Click to expand...


The sooner you get to the money ball however, the better your chances of winning..... It's easier to play safe when you have the 6-9 to hide behind, hope to get either a good shot or ball in hand to run out the rack..... It may not seem like much, but it's a hell of a lot easier to hide either the cue or the 5 behind 4 balls, then it is to hide the six or the cue behind 3 balls......

When giving up anything other than maybe the 8, it's more important to be ready to play safe on the money ball or ball before the money ball than it is to worry about running out....
 
And what you shoulld learn ...

from reading these posts is that if you are playing a
rack runner with every open shot he gets, you better
negotiate 'games on the wire' rather than a 7 or 8 ball
spot because more than likely, you may only get a
chance to get to the 7 or 8 once or twice a set.
 
BigRed said:
The sooner you get to the money ball however, the better your chances of winning..... It's easier to play safe when you have the 6-9 to hide behind, hope to get either a good shot or ball in hand to run out the rack..... It may not seem like much, but it's a hell of a lot easier to hide either the cue or the 5 behind 4 balls, then it is to hide the six or the cue behind 3 balls......

When giving up anything other than maybe the 8, it's more important to be ready to play safe on the money ball or ball before the money ball than it is to worry about running out....
Click to expand...
Using your logic would you then say the 3 would be a smaller spot the the 7?
 
BigRed said:
The sooner you get to the money ball however, the better your chances of winning..... It's easier to play safe when you have the 6-9 to hide behind, hope to get either a good shot or ball in hand to run out the rack..... It may not seem like much, but it's a hell of a lot easier to hide either the cue or the 5 behind 4 balls, then it is to hide the six or the cue behind 3 balls......

When giving up anything other than maybe the 8, it's more important to be ready to play safe on the money ball or ball before the money ball than it is to worry about running out....
Click to expand...

I play friends who are way better than me often, and some of them will give me the breaks, and the wild 4 and 7. What happens in these matches is they will be forced to play a much tighter game as I'll have the extra money balls on the table. Thus they play more safeties and that forces me to deal with that. It's really helped my kicking and jumping game and makes the match much tougher, both for them and for me. I always learn a lot from those matches, and find the many areas of my game where I am weak. It helps me o recognize that and inspires me to improve. It's a win-win situation, even when I lose the matches. The experience is invaluable.

Flex
 
macguy said:
Spots are an important part of the game it is how games happen. Without spots no one would ever play since you usually know who is the better player. I laugh when I hear players say "I never give spots" they would get to play a whole lot more if they did.
Click to expand...

IMO, this statement belongs in the thread about what is wrong with pool. 30 yrs. ago there were plenty of people to play, and plenty who liked to gamble (like today). However, honor dictated, in most circumstances, that "I don't know you, you don't know me...let's post and gamble some." If I lost bad, we'd adjust the game, or I'd quit. Same with my opponent. Today's "lockup artists" won't play without 'negotiating' spots, and I've seen two players argue for hours, and then never match up anyway. There's no spots in ring games, and no spots in challenge table games...and that's where you see lots of action, and gutsy play.

Just to state, I'm not totally against spots. If a significantly weaker player wants to gamble, I'll offer strong weight, both to push myself, and give them a chance to win. Back in the mid-70's when Miz was at his peak, I ran into him in a poolroom, and asked him to play some 8-ball. I knew I couldn't beat him (and told him so), and asked for NO weight; but just to play 10 ahead for $100 (which was okay $$$ then). He figured he could win the $$$ in short order...however it took him 3 hours to win the $100, and I learned a TON just watching...which I used in later gambling sets with other players, to win that $100 back 10x over!

Another story...a few years ago, I was watching onepocketchump play Buddy Hall some cheap one-pocket ($10 a game), on the front table (which is shown on the big screen, for everyone to watch), at a room in Vegas, during the trade show. I don't remember if there was a spot or not, but think they were playing even. An idiot standing next to me said, "Doesn't that guy KNOW who he's playing? He's got NO chance...what a dope!" I turned to him, and put him straight in a heartbeat, telling him that John would learn a ton playing Buddy, and Buddy was being a gentleman to play that cheap. I think John quit $100 loser, but gained a lot of knowledge that night. John was also a class act, sending Buddy back to his hotel in a limo, after the match!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
macguy said:
Using your logic would you then say the 3 would be a smaller spot the the 7?
Click to expand...

Not so.... it's much more likely for a C player to run to the 3 than it is for him to run to the 5...

Odds are for a C player is that he's gonna mess up somewhere in the 3-4 range... rarely running through the 5 unless he gets a very favorable rack or makes some incredible shots for someone that would warrant getting the 5 ball.
 
Scott Lee said:
There's no spots in ring games
Click to expand...

Usually not, but I've played in ring games where the lesser player gets 2:1 on the 5-ball or even 2:1 on both the 5/9. I've also played in ring games where the clear favorite agrees to give up 20% of his marks (we use hashmarks to tally the score) at the end. I've even done both in the same game (bad player gets 2:1, good player gets 80%.)

I've been playing captain (one-pocket) lately with two stronger players. When it's my break, I get 10-8. Everything else is even.

Punchline: you can make spots and adjust odds in anything, if you're so inclined.

Cory
 
Scott Lee said:
Another story...a few years ago, I was watching onepocketchump play Buddy Hall some cheap one-pocket ($10 a game), on the front table (which is shown on the big screen, for everyone to watch), at a room in Vegas, during the trade show. I don't remember if there was a spot or not, but think they were playing even. An idiot standing next to me said, "Doesn't that guy KNOW who he's playing? He's got NO chance...what a dope!" I turned to him, and put him straight in a heartbeat, telling him that John would learn a ton playing Buddy, and Buddy was being a gentleman to play that cheap. I think John quit $100 loser, but gained a lot of knowledge that night. John was also a class act, sending Buddy back to his hotel in a limo, after the match!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

I was there, too (thanks for the memory). In fact, John was playing a friend of mine $10/game in which he had a chance to at least break even when Buddy walked in. John quit that game to play Buddy...smart move-for all the knowledge he gained and the story's he can now tell it was the right thing to do. After all, he wasn't playing high to begin with so clearly he wasn't in it for the money that night.

Dave
 
Scott Lee said:
IMO, this statement belongs in the thread about what is wrong with pool. 30 yrs. ago there were plenty of people to play, and plenty who liked to gamble (like today). However, honor dictated, in most circumstances, that "I don't know you, you don't know me...let's post and gamble some." If I lost bad, we'd adjust the game, or I'd quit. Same with my opponent. Today's "lockup artists" won't play without 'negotiating' spots, and I've seen two players argue for hours, and then never match up anyway. There's no spots in ring games, and no spots in challenge table games...and that's where you see lots of action, and gutsy play.

Just to state, I'm not totally against spots. If a significantly weaker player wants to gamble, I'll offer strong weight, both to push myself, and give them a chance to win. Back in the mid-70's when Miz was at his peak, I ran into him in a poolroom, and asked him to play some 8-ball. I knew I couldn't beat him (and told him so), and asked for NO weight; but just to play 10 ahead for $100 (which was okay $$$ then). He figured he could win the $$$ in short order...however it took him 3 hours to win the $100, and I learned a TON just watching...which I used in later gambling sets with other players, to win that $100 back 10x over!

Another story...a few years ago, I was watching onepocketchump play Buddy Hall some cheap one-pocket ($10 a game), on the front table (which is shown on the big screen, for everyone to watch), at a room in Vegas, during the trade show. I don't remember if there was a spot or not, but think they were playing even. An idiot standing next to me said, "Doesn't that guy KNOW who he's playing? He's got NO chance...what a dope!" I turned to him, and put him straight in a heartbeat, telling him that John would learn a ton playing Buddy, and Buddy was being a gentleman to play that cheap. I think John quit $100 loser, but gained a lot of knowledge that night. John was also a class act, sending Buddy back to his hotel in a limo, after the match!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...


The thing is though guys sit around the pool room and don't play because they all want to win. If they would make a game even if it is just a dead even game they break even at at every time least they would be playing as well as being tough for when a road player does come around or they want to compete in a tournament. In your case if you hung in Miz's room I don't think you would be playing everyday even, it may have been fun once but you would need weight to play the game every day. I would say three hours is about right for a 10 ahead. If he beat you 2 out of every three games it would take around 30 games to get the $100 at $10 a game depending how fast you guys played 2 to 3 hour is about right around 10 games an hour or so. He gave you a pretty good beating.
 
Last edited:
You're missing the point...

macguy said:
In your case if you hung in Miz's room I don't think you would be playing everyday even, it may have been fun once but you would need weight to play the game every day.
Click to expand...

The point is, that I had enough RESPECT for a world champion player, that I just wanted to play with him. I did not then, nor would I now, ask for weight...against ANYBODY...even Efren. I'd consider it an honor just to play them, and if I couldn't afford to lose whatever we were playing for, I wouldn't have asked to play in the first place. That's just the difference between you and me! I've played many former and current champion players, and NEVER asked for a spot. If I got one in a handicapped tournament, that's the decision of the TD, not mine.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top