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I can't stand the APA.. So I joined.
- Thread starter fast&loose designs
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I made it through one and half sessions and had to quit. Hope you can do better.
League player, sir.
I agree. After many years of hearing fellow players on the Boston Billiards in-house league (which I operated and managed for many years out of the now-defunct Danbury, CT branch) complain about APA, I developed a very negative outsider's point-of-view about the APA in general. (And, I got to see -- firsthand -- how some of these players would attempt sandbagging techniques to try to exploit the Boston Billiards' handicapping system, the attempts of which always failed because of the checks and balances built into the system.)
Over the years, I'd been courted to join many APA teams (general APA), and I'd always politely declined, preferring the in-house leagues.
This year, however, it came to light that the APA Masters leagues were starting up in my area in June, and I was immediately courted by two teams. Because this is the Masters division, I'm thinking seriously about joining, even though there are some rules I'm not fond of -- e.g. there is no such thing as a 3-foul rule in APA Masters (although 9-ball is played the usual way "normal 9-ball" is expected to be played -- i.e. pocketing the 9-ball is a [W]in, not the [IMHO] silly ball-count method).
I'll keep my options (and my opinions) open, and will try to enjoy the experience.
-Sean
So on an APA team you must have extra players every week and you may not play?
its not easy to play a higher handicap every week ...say an 8 or 9 level and stay under the 23 handicap.
So on an APA team you must have extra players every week and you may not play?
You don't have to have extra players, so long as the ones you do have all show up each week, and you can play them all and still meet the 23 requirement. Unless its Masters.
If you can't field a team of five at 23 or under, you will forfeit as many matches as you can't play. So it makes sense to have more players, of varying skill levels, in order to field a team each week.
I'm free, I'm free !!!!!! :dance:
So on an APA team you must have extra players every week and you may not play?
Unless you play for someone cool like me who sends a team text out every week to the players That will be in the line up of the 5 players who will play. hence curbing one of the bigger apa problems here which is players burning out since the apa NEVER ENDS!! lol seriously if you make the playoffs here you never get a week off.
I'm not a huge fan of the apa but I have fun playing 9 ball and enjoy the people in the league so I continue.
I thought about it for a while and I'm still guessing on how you teammates not showing up has anything to do with the APA. Just asking.
his post just goes to show you that some people that play in apa have other priorities than a trip to vegas.
kinda the same thing last year with my team. 4 players did not show the 1st night and we had to forfiet a match to the team that we came back and faced in the finals and lost too.this was 8 ball
we did qualify for vegas in 9 ball and 3 players chose not to go...including our 2 highest ranked players.
the rest of us went and had a great time. we did not place as high as we possibly could have with our 2 best players but as they say ...shit happens.
Some of your points I agree with. The one I don't is team members and captains not doing what's expected of them. That's more of a reflection on the type of people that are on your team then a reflection of the apa. One thing is for sure....the apa is strictly team oriented. You can get in singles play, but you have to be a member of an active team to do it. That's the part I don't like. They should have a singles program separate from the team format. No one to rely on but yourself.
i can sympatiize with your complainys completely but yet i dont blame the apa organization.
the 1st team i joined was drama filled like you would not believe. my g/f got me on it. when the season was over i told her i was quitting. once she found out why she and a friend of hers decided to leave also and form a new team. that lasted for a year and a half until i told them i wanted a serious team. they turned the captains duties over to me.
i brought in a couple of guys and we wound up going to vegas.
it got to be too much headace and i turned the team back over to my g/f and her friend. i now just play my matches when she throws me out and coach when a couple of new players ask for a time out. only 2 weeks into the new session so far but i am loving just showing up and not having to deal with being a captain.
i dont worry about trying to qualify for vegas any more...been there done that.
gettin back to what i joined league for. just playing pool and having fun.
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God bless ya!
Pretty sure I am taking a break from APA for at least a session. I don't much care fot the team I joined, there's no team here. Everyone has their quirks on this team, I won't even start. The rep and LO update the web-site every 17 days or so. The houseman issa S/L6
Everyone sandbags it seems. just tired of it except I get tp play a few on the side. :wink:
Pretty sure I am taking a break from APA for at least a session. I don't much care fot the team I joined, there's no team here. Everyone has their quirks on this team, I won't even start. The rep and LO update the web-site every 17 days or so. The houseman issa S/L6
Everyone sandbags it seems. just tired of it except I get tp play a few on the side. :wink:
I've done APA for years. Captain, co-captain, player. Whatever. I always start a new session reminding the team that it isn't all about winning, (of course we're gonna try), it isn't about a trip to Vegas. What it is about is having fun, being social, and improving your game. The APA skill levels are just a measurement that you can use to see how you are improving, and allows the captains to match you up competitively.
I'm currently on two teams, one consists of my daughter, my girlfriend, and a handicapped young man who works very hard. Optimism is high, reality not so much, but we're there every week, cheer each other on,and have fun doing it.
I enter the singles competition each year, haven't made it to Vegas, but came way close twice. (I was beat out by a guy considered a semi-pro around here, and it was very close... no regrets).
APA isn't perfect, it isn't going to make you any money (unless you become an LO), It is what it is. Playing in it is what you make of it.
I'm currently on two teams, one consists of my daughter, my girlfriend, and a handicapped young man who works very hard. Optimism is high, reality not so much, but we're there every week, cheer each other on,and have fun doing it.
I enter the singles competition each year, haven't made it to Vegas, but came way close twice. (I was beat out by a guy considered a semi-pro around here, and it was very close... no regrets).
APA isn't perfect, it isn't going to make you any money (unless you become an LO), It is what it is. Playing in it is what you make of it.
***** UPDATE *****
So I was gonna update this every week or so and I fogot. Here are my thoughts now:
Overall, I'm having fun. I'm captaining a 9 ball team (no 8 ball for me). I'm not learning anything new, not really being challenged for the most part, but it's fun.
I'll start with the negative so I can finish with positive.
First off, what's up with no push outs? I nearly pushed on about 6 different occasions only to quickly remember it isn't allowed.. Why? That rule heavily favors the non-breaker in my opinion, unless the breaker is an 8 or 9 that gets B&Rs at least once every 6 racks. I don't see what the rule tries to accomplish.
Second, why no jump cues? Without going into the age-old argument of kicking v jumping, isn't the APA's main goal to recruit new, MOSTLY younger players? Do they not realize that these guys are coming into the sport TODAY, not pre-1990 where jumping was incredibly scarce? It would seem to me that it should be in the APA's best interest to employ rules that ENCOURAGE players to join, and those new players are coming into a sport that has exciting things like jump cues and low deflection shafts. Billiard organizations need to stop IMPEDING progress and start EMBRACING change. Also, let's not forget that there are cue manufacturers who rely on jump cue sales. Helping manufacturers helps the sport. Believe it.
Third, why the hell is there no scoring app? Chances are that today, there will be at LEAST one, if not more than HALF of the players on any given team that have smartphones. Why is the APA wasting valuable money on printing and time-consuming scribbling, submitting, and data-entering all scores and stats? This is 2014, APA! You call yourself the "Governing Body of Amateur Pool," but you won't invest the time and money into developing an app that would not only save printing and data entry costs, but make the game more EXCITING? It seems to me that it would be the most effective way to score and keep stats - in REAL TIME! Is there an app being developed currently? If so I'm eager to see it. If not, get on it! And furthermore, can you PLEASE make a score sheet that is easier to understand? If you've been playing for years you probably don't mind - but those things are impossible to learn! APA - if you need a well-designed score sheet (assuming the app isn't coming any time soon) talk to me, I'm a designer
Fourth - and this is more of a question than a complaint - why are there so few Skill Levels, and why are they based on a curve? It would seem logical that the more Skill Levels there are, the more accurate one's handicap can be. And the steps in between each level are not even consistent! Moving from a level 1 to a 2 increases ball count by 5; increase from a level 8 to a level 9 is 10?! That's double! It seems logical to create steps on a straight line - not a curve. This means that you can have a VERY strong 8 who won't be a 9 until he really brings his game strong. So he plays EVEN with a WEAK 8, even though there should be some weight there. Is there a reason for this limited number of levels, and the fact that they're on a curve? In my opinion, the curve should go the OTHER way, making it hard to move from a level 1 to a 2 and easier to move from a level 8 to a 9, because the higher levels have something the lowers don't (other than skill) - CONSISTENCY.
But like I said - overall I'm having fun. The guys on my team are cool, they're friendly, and almost ALL of them are in this to learn how to play, not to learn just how to win and flaunt themselves at the bar on a Saturday night. I think, for the most part, that is what is making it fun for me. That, and the fact that I know some of the players on different teams in my division. It's good to see old friends and make some new ones.
Also, I think it's cool that the bars in which we play, the owners and employees treat us with a lot of respect. They understand that we're helping their business, and go out of their way to make sure that the APA players get what they need. On a few occasions I've been given a discount after our matches on table time and on snacks.
I'll see how this season pans out and if I want to play again next season. So far so good - the ball bangers haven't annoyed me too much yet.
So I was gonna update this every week or so and I fogot. Here are my thoughts now:
Overall, I'm having fun. I'm captaining a 9 ball team (no 8 ball for me). I'm not learning anything new, not really being challenged for the most part, but it's fun.
I'll start with the negative so I can finish with positive.
First off, what's up with no push outs? I nearly pushed on about 6 different occasions only to quickly remember it isn't allowed.. Why? That rule heavily favors the non-breaker in my opinion, unless the breaker is an 8 or 9 that gets B&Rs at least once every 6 racks. I don't see what the rule tries to accomplish.
Second, why no jump cues? Without going into the age-old argument of kicking v jumping, isn't the APA's main goal to recruit new, MOSTLY younger players? Do they not realize that these guys are coming into the sport TODAY, not pre-1990 where jumping was incredibly scarce? It would seem to me that it should be in the APA's best interest to employ rules that ENCOURAGE players to join, and those new players are coming into a sport that has exciting things like jump cues and low deflection shafts. Billiard organizations need to stop IMPEDING progress and start EMBRACING change. Also, let's not forget that there are cue manufacturers who rely on jump cue sales. Helping manufacturers helps the sport. Believe it.
Third, why the hell is there no scoring app? Chances are that today, there will be at LEAST one, if not more than HALF of the players on any given team that have smartphones. Why is the APA wasting valuable money on printing and time-consuming scribbling, submitting, and data-entering all scores and stats? This is 2014, APA! You call yourself the "Governing Body of Amateur Pool," but you won't invest the time and money into developing an app that would not only save printing and data entry costs, but make the game more EXCITING? It seems to me that it would be the most effective way to score and keep stats - in REAL TIME! Is there an app being developed currently? If so I'm eager to see it. If not, get on it! And furthermore, can you PLEASE make a score sheet that is easier to understand? If you've been playing for years you probably don't mind - but those things are impossible to learn! APA - if you need a well-designed score sheet (assuming the app isn't coming any time soon) talk to me, I'm a designer
Fourth - and this is more of a question than a complaint - why are there so few Skill Levels, and why are they based on a curve? It would seem logical that the more Skill Levels there are, the more accurate one's handicap can be. And the steps in between each level are not even consistent! Moving from a level 1 to a 2 increases ball count by 5; increase from a level 8 to a level 9 is 10?! That's double! It seems logical to create steps on a straight line - not a curve. This means that you can have a VERY strong 8 who won't be a 9 until he really brings his game strong. So he plays EVEN with a WEAK 8, even though there should be some weight there. Is there a reason for this limited number of levels, and the fact that they're on a curve? In my opinion, the curve should go the OTHER way, making it hard to move from a level 1 to a 2 and easier to move from a level 8 to a 9, because the higher levels have something the lowers don't (other than skill) - CONSISTENCY.
But like I said - overall I'm having fun. The guys on my team are cool, they're friendly, and almost ALL of them are in this to learn how to play, not to learn just how to win and flaunt themselves at the bar on a Saturday night. I think, for the most part, that is what is making it fun for me. That, and the fact that I know some of the players on different teams in my division. It's good to see old friends and make some new ones.
Also, I think it's cool that the bars in which we play, the owners and employees treat us with a lot of respect. They understand that we're helping their business, and go out of their way to make sure that the APA players get what they need. On a few occasions I've been given a discount after our matches on table time and on snacks.
I'll see how this season pans out and if I want to play again next season. So far so good - the ball bangers haven't annoyed me too much yet.
after reading the first post, I gather that you are mostly just trolling for APA chicks to take under your wing, and "tutor" them 
all the other reasons given are a cover
all the other reasons given are a cover
apa isn't really for advanced players I feel...more for beginning to intermediate players so they keep jump cues and push shots out of it. I feel it gives the opponent a better chance of getting back to the table with a shot.
I enjoy shooting apa... couldn't care less if I ever goto vegas lol. I go with other leagues. I understand its strengths and weakness so I go and have fun and hang with my friends and play some pool and the stuff that used to irritate me I just laugh off.
I enjoy shooting apa... couldn't care less if I ever goto vegas lol. I go with other leagues. I understand its strengths and weakness so I go and have fun and hang with my friends and play some pool and the stuff that used to irritate me I just laugh off.
Yup, I just use APA as an excuse so the wife will let me get together with the boys and have a few drinks once a week. "Honey, it's important, the team needs me!"
Then I get there and my entire team keeps yelling at me to hurry up and finish my match so we can all go out and get drunk.
Then I get there and my entire team keeps yelling at me to hurry up and finish my match so we can all go out and get drunk.
Try APA masters division! I guarantee you will get the competition you are looking for! lol.
I do like it better then the money leagues in my area. A few bad apples but apa here is pretty good.
Right, it evens the playing field more. I do think the push out should be added. No pro skills involved with it.
I think the problem with the APA isn't the org itself or its rules, although some of them should be clarified a little more.
The problem is with the individual league operators. I have played under three of them.
The first one, Bruce Barthlette, was awesome. Singles tourneys all over the place, fair rules and great division reps that he regulated.
The second one McAleer up in Hudson Valley was good too.
I don't play anymore because of the third, in North East PA. He is an idiot. Doesn't know how to run a business, has helpers who no one talks to each other, and his bylaws are confusing and contradictory. I might play again if I ever move out of the area.