I don't think new cloth is necessarily good for pro tournaments.

davidbehrens said:
--Wait for cloth manufacturers to design a cloth that plays more consistent after being broken in and/or affected by other factors.
Click to expand...
I think consistency is the main value of brand new cloth for tournaments. I don't think it's necessary for tables to play the same from one tournament to the next but if player A has already played 2 matches on a table that player B hasn't played yet, and they face off on that table, I don't think that's fair if the tables at the tournament don't play similarly.

As far as lights on the TV table, are they still using incandescent and halogen? LEDs don't put off near the heat.
 
I wonder whether just rubbing the cushion cloth with a ball could reduce some (most?) of the sliding. Maybe spend a few minutes rubbing each cushion after the table is set up. I wonder whether that would make the table play more consistently from start to finish of pro tournaments.

[Could be an opportunity for someone to devise a cushion-conditioning machine.]
 
davidbehrens said:
Throughout the past decade or so, most of the biggest pool tournaments (including all of the recent Matchroom events) have been played on new cloth, often under TV lights. In these matches, a constant storyline is how the resultingly slippery conditions affect play. Balls slide in off the rail. Sidespin doesn't take. Jumping is easier. Drawing the ball over distance is effortless--sometimes too much so, as speed control is precarious.

Why do we romanticize these conditions and just assume all of these complications are good for the game? No other sport is like this. Even snooker is relatively consistent when it comes to repeatable practice vs. match conditions. Matchroom has recently moved toward 4" pockets to combat imperfect pots, but the most noticeable shots in that category are often shots that slide in off the rail. I think that a 4" pocket with brand new cloth is actually more forgiving to that type of shot than a 4.5" pocket with worn-in cloth. And, in general, having match conditions that are as similar as possible to practice conditions would improve the standard of competitive play.

I'd be very curious to hear everyone's thoughts. Here are some potential solutions I was able to come up with:

--Find a way to treat new cloth so that it quickly becomes broken in without needing to be played on.
--If that isn't possible, have people play on new cloth for a full week before a tournament starts so that the cloth is broken in by then.
--Wait for cloth manufacturers to design a cloth that plays more consistent after being broken in and/or affected by other factors.
--Find a way to redesign TV lights so that gameplay isn't as affected by the heat they give off.

Would love to see if anyone else feels this way.
Click to expand...
Apologies if this comes off as overly critical.

This post shows how far pool has strayed from being a professional sport, and I think it’s great that Matchroom is following snooker’s standards.

Also, completely wrong re. snooker. Professionals have to create tournament conditions to practice, and even then, they can’t consistently maintain those conditions for practice. However, they have so many tournaments that they become used to those conditions. During tournaments, cloths are often replaced at least once, before the semis. If you aren’t a top pro, you play on tables that are completely different to tournament conditions. Tournament tables are much tighter than club tables, the cloth is different, not only a different ounce of cloth, but tournament cloth is often shaved and the tables are heated. They play so much faster than club tables. The difference is much greater than a club pool table compared to a tournament pool table.

Conditions also change in snooker tournaments as the tournament goes on. Expectations for high breaks are always greater when the tables have just been reclothed; balls slip in easier, cloth is more responsive. And just as in the Matchroom pool tournaments, The TV tables play differently to the outside tables. The top pros have a clear advantage when it comes to the final stages of a tournament because they always get the TV time, while lower ranked players only get to play on TV tables if they happen to make it deep or come up against a top 10, sometimes only top 4, player.
 
pw98 said:
It will slow them down significantly. Just go to any weekly amateur tournament the week before the cloth is changed then go back a week later when there is new cloth. The ability to runout is increased significantly for the players that know how to play on new cloth.

He isnt talking about making them play on beat up crap. He just wants balls that are hit poorly to rattle in the pocket without resorting to making the pockets 4 inches. He also wants it to be a little harder to draw the ball. Thats it. As it is right now with 4 inch pockets the game is fundamentally changed. It might not seem so as much when watching these pros because they are on brand new cloth, but if you added worn in cloth, rails that arent so fast and no tv lights to the 4 inch pockets you would quickly understand what I am getting at.

Basically on these pockets the game isnt pool in the sense that we have always played it as: It is a game where the player who can hit the ball hardest accurately always wins. It is also a game where the player who has the most time on these size pockets wins as well because if you are used to playing on 4.5" pockets there is going to be no hope for you without significant practice on the 4 inch pockets because you will set up for and get position on a shot that was fine on the looser table quickly to realize that position is useless on the 4 inch pocket table.....(and this is where hammering the ball with a bazooka comes in)
Click to expand...
Mike Dechaine rolled through Canada awhile ago, before he went pro in the US. He played on the club tables here and destroyed everyone in his path. Again, I’ll say it - if they’re pro, they are going to figure the table out very quickly, because they’ve either played, or gambled on, similar equipment when they were coming up. Maybe if you threw a Valley bar box at them with old rubber backed cloth and a drift, they may struggle. But that’s not even acceptable playing conditions for a decent league player.
 
AtLarge said:
I wonder whether just rubbing the cushion cloth with a ball could reduce some (most?) of the sliding. Maybe spend a few minutes rubbing each cushion after the table is set up. I wonder whether that would make the table play more consistently from start to finish of pro tournaments.

[Could be an opportunity for someone to devise a cushion-conditioning machine.]
Click to expand...
I met David Hodges years ago at the DCC. He is the man behind Quick Clean, a product for cleaning pool table felt.
I remember him saying that multiple cleanings with his product after the new felt was installed would almost eliminate the sliding factor. The Quick Clean website currently, says "Eliminates table slide experienced with new cloth". I am not sure if this relates to the slide on the bed of table as well as the rail sliding.

I have never tried using the product on new cloth to find out if this claim is accurate.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
Mike Dechaine rolled through Canada awhile ago, before he went pro in the US. He played on the club tables here and destroyed everyone in his path. Again, I’ll say it - if they’re pro, they are going to figure the table out very quickly, because they’ve either played, or gambled on, similar equipment when they were coming up. Maybe if you threw a Valley bar box at them with old rubber backed cloth and a drift, they may struggle. But that’s not even acceptable playing conditions for a decent league player.
Click to expand...
Of course a top pro is still going to destroy everyone. The better player will still win but they will rattle more balls with worn cloth than with brand new cloth. Its basically a fact.
 
pw98 said:
Of course a top pro is still going to destroy everyone. The better player will still win but they will rattle more balls with worn cloth than with brand new cloth. Its basically a fact.
Click to expand...
Sidespin also grabs better on worn cloth and rails. So, where they will see a slight drop in pocket size, their ways of playing shape actually grows. So, they may not rattle that many balls. I find it easier to run out on a table that’s slightly broken in, vs new cloth.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
Sidespin also grabs better on worn cloth and rails. So, where they will see a slight drop in pocket size, their ways of playing shape actually grows. So, they may not rattle that many balls. I find it easier to run out on a table that’s slightly broken in, vs new cloth.
Click to expand...
Pocketing balls on new cloth is not the problem - the pockets clearly play bigger. Playing position on new cloth, especially 2 and 3 cushion shape can be extremely challenging. Add to that it being virtually impossible to apply holding spin (opposite of running spin) on a cue ball coming off a cushion in an attempt to alter a cue balls’s rebound angle.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
Does anyone on here actually play pool, or just mentally masturbate with all of the wonderful ideas that will make pool more appealing to THEM?
Click to expand...


I play does that count❓❓❓❓


Think the reason the Cloth & Balls are new is what in trade is called trade out for advertising.

Or pimp the ball & cloth brand. Very common in radio advertising.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top