I don't think new cloth is necessarily good for pro tournaments.

[davidbehrens]

Throughout the past decade or so, most of the biggest pool tournaments (including all of the recent Matchroom events) have been played on new cloth, often under TV lights. In these matches, a constant storyline is how the resultingly slippery conditions affect play. Balls slide in off the rail. Sidespin doesn't take. Jumping is easier. Drawing the ball over distance is effortless--sometimes too much so, as speed control is precarious.

Why do we romanticize these conditions and just assume all of these complications are good for the game? No other sport is like this. Even snooker is relatively consistent when it comes to repeatable practice vs. match conditions. Matchroom has recently moved toward 4" pockets to combat imperfect pots, but the most noticeable shots in that category are often shots that slide in off the rail. I think that a 4" pocket with brand new cloth is actually more forgiving to that type of shot than a 4.5" pocket with worn-in cloth. And, in general, having match conditions that are as similar as possible to practice conditions would improve the standard of competitive play.

I'd be very curious to hear everyone's thoughts. Here are some potential solutions I was able to come up with:

--Find a way to treat new cloth so that it quickly becomes broken in without needing to be played on.
--If that isn't possible, have people play on new cloth for a full week before a tournament starts so that the cloth is broken in by then.
--Wait for cloth manufacturers to design a cloth that plays more consistent after being broken in and/or affected by other factors.
--Find a way to redesign TV lights so that gameplay isn't as affected by the heat they give off.

Would love to see if anyone else feels this way.

 

[chalkdust]

I think the tables and the balls should be allowed to become dirty (played in) so to speak. Over the course of a tournament the conditions will get tougher as will the competition.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Does anyone on here actually play pool, or just mentally masturbate with all of the wonderful ideas that will make pool more appealing to THEM?

 

[Texas Carom Club]

Does anyone on here actually play pool, or just mentally masturbate with all of the wonderful ideas that will make pool more appealing to THEM?

i dont

 

[Fatboy]

I haven’t played pool in years, but I’ve played for decades. And know pool.

 

[Black-Balled]

I play with myself mostly.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

i dont

Sorry, I just laugh when people use circular logic to start their diatribes. “No other sport is like this”. Please. Hockey, they get a flood every period, and a clean during commercial breaks. Basketball, they sweep the floor during TV breaks. Golf, the greens are immaculate for the pros. Rec hockey? Maybe a flood between 2nd and 3rd period. Rec basketball, you sweep your own floor. Golf, you play the course the way it is. So to start with the attitude of “no other sport” is ridiculous.

 

[chalkdust]

I think the OPs is, rather than turning pool tables into snooker tables maybe the pros should play in conditions us mere play in.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

I think the OPs is, rather than turning pool tables into snooker tables maybe the pros should play in conditions us mere play in.

Right. They play at the highest level on new equipment, but somehow he thinks they’ll slow down playing on beat up crap? Does he know all of these guys played on beat up crap when they were elevating their game? They’re PROS. The equipment won’t get the better of them.

 

[Jedco]

In order to better simulate real world conditions, I think they should play on a 7' Valley with old cloth and someone's drunk girlfriend standing in your way. Loud rap music and the occasional vape cloud would help, as well.

 

[Quesports]

Why play pool when you can pretend you do?

 

[Black-Balled]

I can recall the first really big tournament.i played.

New balls, new cloth...how in the hell could I ever adjust to such conditions?

 

[chalkdust]

Right. They play at the highest level on new equipment, but somehow he thinks they’ll slow down playing on beat up crap? Does he know all of these guys played on beat up crap when they were elevating their game? They’re PROS. The equipment won’t get the better of them.

With that said, why make the pockets smaller?

 

[pw98]

Right. They play at the highest level on new equipment, but somehow he thinks they’ll slow down playing on beat up crap? Does he know all of these guys played on beat up crap when they were elevating their game? They’re PROS. The equipment won’t get the better of them.

It will slow them down significantly. Just go to any weekly amateur tournament the week before the cloth is changed then go back a week later when there is new cloth. The ability to runout is increased significantly for the players that know how to play on new cloth.

He isnt talking about making them play on beat up crap. He just wants balls that are hit poorly to rattle in the pocket without resorting to making the pockets 4 inches. He also wants it to be a little harder to draw the ball. Thats it. As it is right now with 4 inch pockets the game is fundamentally changed. It might not seem so as much when watching these pros because they are on brand new cloth, but if you added worn in cloth, rails that arent so fast and no tv lights to the 4 inch pockets you would quickly understand what I am getting at.

Basically on these pockets the game isnt pool in the sense that we have always played it as: It is a game where the player who can hit the ball hardest accurately always wins. It is also a game where the player who has the most time on these size pockets wins as well because if you are used to playing on 4.5" pockets there is going to be no hope for you without significant practice on the 4 inch pockets because you will set up for and get position on a shot that was fine on the looser table quickly to realize that position is useless on the 4 inch pocket table.....(and this is where hammering the ball with a bazooka comes in)

 

[Quesports]

I have always thought that playing on new cloth for the pros was not representative of pool as most of us know it.

Continuously shots go in that have contacted a rail a full diamond away from the pocket. Those shots almost never go on a heavily played table, especially a Diamond..

 

[sjm]

I'm on board with some of the premise of the thread. On worn cloth, 4" plays quite a bit tougher than on new cloth, and there's no question that many more balls would be missed. but I'd suggest that with new cloth, which is the norm today in major events, 4" is still tight enough to test the elite players.

I agree with Chalkdust, who noted "Over the course of a tournament the conditions will get tougher as will the competition." By the time the business end of an event is reached, the tables play plenty tough enough.

With truly worn cloth and 4" pockets, the game would be appreciably more difficult, and I don't think the pro game needs to go there.

 

[MitchAlsup]

Throughout the past decade or so, most of the biggest pool tournaments (including all of the recent Matchroom events) have been played on new cloth, often under TV lights. In these matches, a constant storyline is how the resultingly slippery conditions affect play. Balls slide in off the rail. Sidespin doesn't take. Jumping is easier. Drawing the ball over distance is effortless--sometimes too much so, as speed control is precarious.

If you practiced on Simonis 760 you would have good control on the slick new Simonis 860.

Why do we romanticize these conditions and just assume all of these complications are good for the game?

Because it is better than playing on a table where 2 feet from the edge of the rail to the head of the rack is missing.

No other sport is like this. Even snooker is relatively consistent when it comes to repeatable practice vs. match conditions.

Few really powerful strokes in Snooker--more than 1 in 10 is a power stroke in pool and these tend to be as hard as a player can hit..

I'd be very curious to hear everyone's thoughts. Here are some potential solutions I was able to come up with:

Roll a dice the day before the tournament begins:
1,2: Simonis 300
3,4: Simonis 760
5,6: Simonis 860
and then set up all the tables according to the dice roll.

 

[JCL]

It will slow them down significantly. Just go to any weekly amateur tournament the week before the cloth is changed then go back a week later when there is new cloth. The ability to runout is increased significantly for the players that know how to play on new cloth.

He isnt talking about making them play on beat up crap. He just wants balls that are hit poorly to rattle in the pocket without resorting to making the pockets 4 inches. He also wants it to be a little harder to draw the ball. Thats it. As it is right now with 4 inch pockets the game is fundamentally changed. It might not seem so as much when watching these pros because they are on brand new cloth, but if you added worn in cloth, rails that arent so fast and no tv lights to the 4 inch pockets you would quickly understand what I am getting at.

Basically on these pockets the game isnt pool in the sense that we have always played it as: It is a game where the player who can hit the ball hardest accurately always wins. It is also a game where the player who has the most time on these size pockets wins as well because if you are used to playing on 4.5" pockets there is going to be no hope for you without significant practice on the 4 inch pockets because you will set up for and get position on a shot that was fine on the looser table quickly to realize that position is useless on the 4 inch pocket table.....(and this is where hammering the ball with a bazooka comes in)

Have you ever play in 4", in my opinion you have no idea what you are saying

 

[chenjy9]

Does anyone on here actually play pool, or just mentally masturbate with all of the wonderful ideas that will make pool more appealing to THEM?

That wasn't what they meant when they told me to stroke my shaft?!

 

[tomatoshooter]

Roll a dice the day before the tournament begins:
1,2: Simonis 300
3,4: Simonis 760
5,6: Simonis 860
and then set up all the tables according to the dice roll.

There should be the chance of rolling old school slow felt, too. I do think adapting to conditions, within a reasonable range, should be part of the game.