I love 9-ball but...

Yeah maybe. Ultimate Pool maybe onto something. A regionalized team component could add something. Oklahoma v Minnesota v Texas etc..
I'll tell you, it's entertaining to watch. Especially the TV tables. You will also see players you've never heard of shooting lights out. I think that some of the pro events get stale seeing the same few guys play each other all the time.
 
I am about to mention two aspects of billiards and pool which I have never seen mentioned before because I think dealing with them may gain a wider public for pool.

Pool is not a manly game.

There. I’ve said it. Pool doesn’t require muscle strength or physical contact. You don’t get to crash into your opponent. Nobody goes to the ER after the match. Putting pool before the public is like trying to turn an international piano competition into mass entertainment. The only really manly thing pool players do is, after winning a tournament, sometimes jump on the table and laughably pretend to be a great ape. “Here, hold my beer“ is secretly written on the heart of every man. There is, however, no need for anyone to hold your beer when you shoot pool. You can just set it on the rail.

We think of pool as being masculine because of its historical associations. But only the competitiveness and the risk taking of the associated gambling were really manly. Manliness is about speed and force and danger. Pool is about small muscles and eye hand coordination. One of the thrills of pre-league pool was the demi monde flavor. There was a reason “The Hustler” was in black and white and not color. But none of that was part of the substance of the game. It was all extraneous.

Consider for a second how you would react if someone came to you and said he had two business propositions. One is investing in a network series about men who quilt. The other is for a series about a group of men who have no common language trying to build a cottage. I think you would leap on the second, precisely because there is a chance someone could go to the ER.

So, to get to the second point, how to account for the immense popularity of snooker in Britain. ( I have to confess that I could have never imagined anyone could make such a repetitive game popular. Anyone for popularizing balkline billiards? ) I think personalities made the game, and the broadcasting included interviews with the competitors, who turned out to have remarkable personalities. There were the good, the bad, and the ugly. There was Jimmy “The Whirlwind” White and Alex “Hurricane” Higgins. They lived up to their names. There was Dennis Taylor, the Welshman who survived having a coal mine cave in on him and then worked as a physically imposing figure after that as a policeman. And he, like the first two, could tell a story and hold an audience. Think Ronnie Allen grafted onto Willy Mosconi. Then Barry Hearn got lucky with the “good,” the nice young men you wouldn’t mind your daughter bringing home to Thanksgiving dinner. Paul Jones and Stephen Hendry. And it turned out they could both talk. Pool is going to have to have some spice added to the actual game itself, because the game itself is like watching pianists practise scales. Joshua Filler and Lee Van Corteza won’t make pool fly no matter how well they play. Dennis Hatch, Alex Pagulayan, and Fedor Gorst just might.
 
that's misleading as a lot of players in open events are not pros or not top 100 in the world.
Focus on TV table statistics that usually feature the top players and you'll get a better number.
It's literally from streaming tables, so if anything it's inflated the other way
 
You don’t get to crash into your opponent. Nobody goes to the ER after the match. Putting pool before the public is like trying to turn an international piano competition into mass entertainment.
Now explain the popularity of golf with this theory. I don't watch it much but I don't ever remember seeing golfers shit talking their opponents like it's the WWF. Golf is the most sedate thing there is. There's a reason the term "golf clap" exists. People at classical piano concerts applaud more than at golf.
 
I am about to mention two aspects of billiards and pool which I have never seen mentioned before because I think dealing with them may gain a wider public for pool.

Pool is not a manly game.

There. I’ve said it. Pool doesn’t require muscle strength or physical contact. You don’t get to crash into your opponent. Nobody goes to the ER after the match. Putting pool before the public is like trying to turn an international piano competition into mass entertainment. The only really manly thing pool players do is, after winning a tournament, sometimes jump on the table and laughably pretend to be a great ape. “Here, hold my beer“ is secretly written on the heart of every man. There is, however, no need for anyone to hold your beer when you shoot pool. You can just set it on the rail.

We think of pool as being masculine because of its historical associations. But only the competitiveness and the risk taking of the associated gambling were really manly. Manliness is about speed and force and danger. Pool is about small muscles and eye hand coordination. One of the thrills of pre-league pool was the demi monde flavor. There was a reason “The Hustler” was in black and white and not color. But none of that was part of the substance of the game. It was all extraneous.

Consider for a second how you would react if someone came to you and said he had two business propositions. One is investing in a network series about men who quilt. The other is for a series about a group of men who have no common language trying to build a cottage. I think you would leap on the second, precisely because there is a chance someone could go to the ER.

So, to get to the second point, how to account for the immense popularity of snooker in Britain. ( I have to confess that I could have never imagined anyone could make such a repetitive game popular. Anyone for popularizing balkline billiards? ) I think personalities made the game, and the broadcasting included interviews with the competitors, who turned out to have remarkable personalities. There were the good, the bad, and the ugly. There was Jimmy “The Whirlwind” White and Alex “Hurricane” Higgins. They lived up to their names. There was Dennis Taylor, the Welshman who survived having a coal mine cave in on him and then worked as a physically imposing figure after that as a policeman. And he, like the first two, could tell a story and hold an audience. Think Ronnie Allen grafted onto Willy Mosconi. Then Barry Hearn got lucky with the “good,” the nice young men you wouldn’t mind your daughter bringing home to Thanksgiving dinner. Paul Jones and Stephen Hendry. And it turned out they could both talk. Pool is going to have to have some spice added to the actual game itself, because the game itself is like watching pianists practise scales. Joshua Filler and Lee Van Corteza won’t make pool fly no matter how well they play. Dennis Hatch, Alex Pagulayan, and Fedor Gorst just might.
I've heard that the popularity of snooker also had to do with color televisions. I'm not fully versed on it, just some snippet that stuck in my mind. It makes sense, it's a pretty game and would be good to showcase the new color broadcast format, a nice thing to see while awing at your new colour set. The British style of television programs probably helped. A government ran broadcasting network and needing to fill time slots. I'm sure it was waaay cheaper to film a snooker match than make a new sitcom.

In time it became distinctly British and permeated the culture.

Here we are more about westerns, cowboys and gunfights. Pool culture here sort of co-opted that ideal. And that's what made it so neat. We talk crap about bar pool (rightfully so), but getting into a shouting match with someone over some made up on the spot rule sure is more exciting than the sterilized game itself. :)
 
Now explain the popularity of golf with this theory. I don't watch it much but I don't ever remember seeing golfers shit talking their opponents like it's the WWF. Golf is the most sedate thing there is. There's a reason the term "golf clap" exists. People at classical piano concerts applaud more than at golf.
Golf ties into the ego. If you are a cultured person you can play golf. If you are uncultured you are denied entry into the country club. Sure there are municipal courses but I'd wager that 50% of golfers do it for the prestige, even if subconsciously. This isn't all golfers, but golf is known as a high class and wealth game. Social ties are made on the course. You watch golf to study that world and try to emulate it. Sure the game is kind of neat seeing what pros come up with, but even watching it on the screen you feel a bit higher class... one of them.

The most popular golf movies of all time were Tin Cup and Happy Gilmore. I'd guess the audience of those films are multitudes wider than watching a normal tournament on tv. That isn't a coincidence.
 
I am about to mention two aspects of billiards and pool which I have never seen mentioned before because I think dealing with them may gain a wider public for pool.

Pool is not a manly game.

There. I’ve said it. Pool doesn’t require muscle strength or physical contact. You don’t get to crash into your opponent. Nobody goes to the ER after the match. Putting pool before the public is like trying to turn an international piano competition into mass entertainment. The only really manly thing pool players do is, after winning a tournament, sometimes jump on the table and laughably pretend to be a great ape. “Here, hold my beer“ is secretly written on the heart of every man. There is, however, no need for anyone to hold your beer when you shoot pool. You can just set it on the rail.
So is it possible coke usage is partially to justify shrunken packages?
 
Despite WNT elevating the game and the PLP being a great format - I too think that in the end the current games lack something.

I am currently in the process of starting a business. That takes most of my energy, time and money. But if it succeeds and I got time and money available, I will get together a team of gamedesigners and pool players and do our best to create a new poolgame.

Broadly I see two outlines for possible new games:
- old style game with new game mechanisms that create much more continuous tension for players and viewers. It would reward complex shots and risk taking.
- a digitally enhanced game where an app is needed. It would have something like powerups for balls, automatic score calculation, avatars battleing, etc. This would be more something for Asian teenagers that the average AZ member.
(a bit like lightspeed arena, boardgame)
 
that's misleading as a lot of players in open events are not pros or not top 100 in the world.
Focus on TV table statistics that usually feature the top players and you'll get a better number.

aren't the stats from L64 onwards? and only the TV table
 
I am about to mention two aspects of billiards and pool which I have never seen mentioned before because I think dealing with them may gain a wider public for pool.

Pool is not a manly game.

There. I’ve said it. Pool doesn’t require muscle strength or physical contact. You don’t get to crash into your opponent. Nobody goes to the ER after the match. Putting pool before the public is like trying to turn an international piano competition into mass entertainment. The only really manly thing pool players do is, after winning a tournament, sometimes jump on the table and laughably pretend to be a great ape. “Here, hold my beer“ is secretly written on the heart of every man. There is, however, no need for anyone to hold your beer when you shoot pool. You can just set it on the rail.

We think of pool as being masculine because of its historical associations. But only the competitiveness and the risk taking of the associated gambling were really manly. Manliness is about speed and force and danger. Pool is about small muscles and eye hand coordination. One of the thrills of pre-league pool was the demi monde flavor. There was a reason “The Hustler” was in black and white and not color. But none of that was part of the substance of the game. It was all extraneous.

Consider for a second how you would react if someone came to you and said he had two business propositions. One is investing in a network series about men who quilt. The other is for a series about a group of men who have no common language trying to build a cottage. I think you would leap on the second, precisely because there is a chance someone could go to the ER.

So, to get to the second point, how to account for the immense popularity of snooker in Britain. ( I have to confess that I could have never imagined anyone could make such a repetitive game popular. Anyone for popularizing balkline billiards? ) I think personalities made the game, and the broadcasting included interviews with the competitors, who turned out to have remarkable personalities. There were the good, the bad, and the ugly. There was Jimmy “The Whirlwind” White and Alex “Hurricane” Higgins. They lived up to their names. There was Dennis Taylor, the Welshman who survived having a coal mine cave in on him and then worked as a physically imposing figure after that as a policeman. And he, like the first two, could tell a story and hold an audience. Think Ronnie Allen grafted onto Willy Mosconi. Then Barry Hearn got lucky with the “good,” the nice young men you wouldn’t mind your daughter bringing home to Thanksgiving dinner. Paul Jones and Stephen Hendry. And it turned out they could both talk. Pool is going to have to have some spice added to the actual game itself, because the game itself is like watching pianists practise scales. Joshua Filler and Lee Van Corteza won’t make pool fly no matter how well they play. Dennis Hatch, Alex Pagulayan, and Fedor Gorst just might.

might be true, but my point is not about making the game more popular, a subject that we can talk about for years by itself, but more about what game the pro player should play; it can't look so easy. The statistics that were brought here (which I don't agree with) show a 30% break and run at a tournament. Does snooker have 30% 147 breaks in a tournament? They are celebrating centuries because it's that hard to make.
 
Three disparate points.

1. The promotion of The MosconI Cup is more or less an admission that pool lacks manliness. Spectators acting like tribal soccer hooligans, even if unconvincingly, must mean there are some really physically gifted guys somewhere nearby competing in a show of strength and coordination. That’s a fallacy.

2. Pool and golf share a feature which militates against wide popularity. If you haven’t actually played them you cannot understand how difficult they are. Whenever anyone says to me that he finds golf on television boring I immediately ask him if he has ever tried to hit a golf ball.

3. Suggested rules for PROFESSIONAL nine ball which should be tried as a complete package.

a. Breaker is required to drive at least two balls beyond the head string.

b. The first player to shoot after the break must push out. After that, one foul ball in hand.

c. No jump cues.

d. Alternate breaks.

e. Win by two, as in tennis.
 
Last edited:
Dear Boogieman—

To your points about golf and the elevation of snooker to a national phenomenon in Britain.

Have you ever clocked the commercials on a golf broadcast? Mercedes, Land Rover, De Beers Diamonds. They’re like the advertisements in high end publications such as “Vanity Fair” or ”The Economist,” in which you can learn where to buy a six thousand dollar wristwatch or a seven hundred dollar T-shirt.

As for snooker, it is almost impossible to imagine how low snooker was socially in Britain before it came on TV. If you went into any snooker room the mark of Cain was on you. In the eighties I was invited to the University of Glasgow for a week. Glasgow was just starting to make a comeback from a long period of violent criminality. Indeed, Glasgow was synonymous with organized crime. (It has greatly recovered in the meantime.). We’re talking serious “Peaky Blinders,” here, including the razor blades. “The Glasgow Smile” refers to a slash with a razor that makes the victim appear ever after as if he is horribly smiling. My hosts were stunned that I had gone to a local snooker parlor on my second night, and they pleaded with me never, ever to do it again.

The place was like an outer circle of Hell.

There is an old English crime picture called “The Blue Light,” a blue light bulb being the sign of a police station in England. In this movie a jewel robbery occurs and the police need to talk about the unusual MO with an expert jewel thief. To find him they go, naturally, to a snooker parlor.
 
Last edited:
I really do love 9-ball; it's been my favourite game to play for many years, but I think it's time that it won't be played anymore at the pro level.

It's too easy, and even with the 9 on the spot and breaking from the box, it took the pros a minute and a half to adjust their break and run out.

9-ball was picked up for pro events because it was fast and exciting and looked great on TV, while 14.1 was boring to the average TV viewer who changed the channel, but today nobody watches pool on TV; we stream it, and the die hard fans will watch any game. So let them play 10-ball, 8-ball, 14.1, rotation, or whatever; just stop pro 9-ball.

Just my 2 cents.
I agree.nine ball is just way too easy for the pros, they need to spot all balls made on the break and no jump cues. that may help in making more,difficult
 
People watch snooker by the millions in the UK, and it's not fast, at all. Watching 9-ball is a snoozer for me. If people want fast action, they'll watch MMA and the hell with pool to begin with. Hell, golf gets high ratings and it's slow as molasses.
Why are you on a pool forum?? Lots of mma stuff out there.
 
Same here. I shoot hi-dollar pcp air-rifles and that's about as niche as it gets. The fact that televised/streamed pool lags behind cornhole tells you all you need about its viability as a widely viewed game. Pickleball, a game barely five yrs old, SMOKES pool in viewership #'s.
Brings tears to one's eyes.
 
I feel the same way. 9 ball is too easy.

8b is another animal. I've been playing with a seasoned 14.1 player and he's quite a challenge to play. I can wipe the floor with him in 9b but he has the advantage in 8b. We call shots and everything which I find quite distracting. It gets in a way of my routine so I just point at the pocket with my cue.
 
Pros should probably play one pocket because it tests all of the skills except for a steady diet of masses that probably only the traditional disciplines in carom require. That or they can play nine ball.

I just don’t agree at all with the argument that 9 ball is too easy. It just isn’t.
I got the wild 7 for those who think it is.
 
Hey, if you can get people to watch Cornhole, they'll watch anything. People throwing a bag in a hole.
A good friend of mine has a damn fine job making bank. He told me he makes more at Cornhole than at work. Only been throwing bean bags for 3 years. Hearing him talk about the intricacies of the throw put me down.
 
So, to get to the second point, how to account for the immense popularity of snooker in Britain. ( I have to confess that I could have never imagined anyone could make such a repetitive game popular. Anyone for popularizing balkline billiards? ) I think personalities made the game, and the broadcasting included interviews with the competitors, who turned out to have remarkable personalities. There were the good, the bad, and the ugly. There was Jimmy “The Whirlwind” White and Alex “Hurricane” Higgins. They lived up to their names. There was Dennis Taylor, the Welshman who survived having a coal mine cave in on him and then worked as a physically imposing figure after that as a policeman. And he, like the first two, could tell a story and hold an audience. Think Ronnie Allen grafted onto Willy Mosconi. Then Barry Hearn got lucky with the “good,” the nice young men you wouldn’t mind your daughter bringing home to Thanksgiving dinner. Paul Jones and Stephen Hendry. And it turned out they could both talk. Pool is going to have to have some spice added to the actual game itself, because the game itself is like watching pianists practise scales. Joshua Filler and Lee Van Corteza won’t make pool fly no matter how well they play. Dennis Hatch, Alex Pagulayan, and Fedor Gorst just might.

could be we have of a british / american / euro perspective on characters. players now come from all over the world and because of the language barrier we don't really know how much "character" they have, or how popular they are in asia / other target markets for pro pool. those new asian pros may be real stars on tiktok or other social media. i for one would be clueless, i have gmail and that's about it

Glasgow was just starting to make a comeback from a long period of violent criminality. Indeed, Glasgow was synonymous with organized crime. (It has greatly recovered in the meantime.)

it was real bad in the mid 2000's too, the murder capital of europe. don't know how it is now but it's probably overshadowed by the ongoing drug epidemic in scotland
 
Back
Top