I have a new one-piece, maple snooker cue and want a lacquer finish on the butt. Someone mentioned seal and then lacquer. Why do I need to seal? And if I should, then which product do you recommend? Also which lacquer product do you recommend? And lastly, can you provide specific instructions? Someone told me I should apply a light coat, sand with 2000 grit paper to remove imperfections, and the recoat. I should recoat up to 3 or 4 times with a 2 day stretch between each coat. I should also make sure the room is relatively free of dust (might be difficult where I live). Thanks for any help.
I want to have a lacquer finish
- Thread starter dinkwater
- Start date
dinkwater said:
Lacquer is actually a poor finish but is fairly easy to apply. I would spray on 2-3 coats waiting about 20 minutes between coats, let it set a couple of days, flat sand and then do it all over again. keep doing this until all of the woods open grain and pores have been filled and the surface is perfectly smooth. Now this may take any where up to 50 or 60 coats, depending on how open the grain of the wood is and the amount of solids in the lacquer you are using.
By using a sanding sealer you are filling some of this open grain with a quick drying substance that also makes a good base for the lacquer to stick to. Lacquer doesnt stand up well in an environment where alcohol is present, it turns yellow as it ages and chips fairly easily in my opinion.
I wouldn't consider using lacquer on any surface that already has a finish on it without testing first. Lacquer is easily repaired as the next coat melts the coat underneath making one thicker coat. However, the drawback is that if the finish underneath is not lacquer, it gets melted anyway and instead of becoming one thicker finish it becomes one absolute mess.
Dick
Dick
I haven't yet done a cue in lacquer, but I've done many other wood projects,as well as cars, and I agree with Dick's post. Lacquer is a beautiful finish, can be sanded and polished mirror-smooth, very brittle, but is is easy to repair. Do you have access to spray equipment? There are some brush-on wood finishes (Deft comes to mind) but sanding out the brush marks coat after coat can be quite tedious. I've used Sherwin-Williams' furniture lacquer with good results on other wood projects, using a small touch-up spray gun. Ventilation is always important on any spray paint project, but lacquer fumes won't kill you like some of the hi-tech finishes. Many a car was sprayed up through the 80's with only a dust mask, if that. Dennis Dieckman in his "Dieckman's written word" articles used Dupont lacquer in a spray can for cues. I recently tried Minwax aerosol lacquer on a wood piece, and it was a horrible texture. Had to sand it all off and start over. Whatever you decide, buy yourself a wood dowel or two and practice your technique before you aim any paint at a treasured cue. Hope this helps.
Bill
Bill
billyjack said:
They make the Deft in spray bombs too, and It's really easy to work with & flashes quickly between cotes. I would'nt say it would be a first choice for cues given It's a Lacquer, but It does work & for someone starting out, limited on finish applications, with no sanding arbors, It may be an easy alternative that looks good when buffed & polished. You can spray the joint while screwed together, cracking It every 3 cotes or so, and It does'nt chip out on the edges like some finishes might. Like mentioned not a first choice, but personally I like it over CA finishes if those were the only options. They make a polyurethane also. I did a cue with the deft lacquer before that has yet to yellow (sealed with epoxy base). I have tried a poly before, forget the brand, but that one did yellow pretty quickly. Greg
dinkwater said:
Are you the bug in disquise?
Seriously drink, I fear you are underestimating the extent of
what you are asking for. The ammount of info required
is way too much for this venue
There are no simple no-brainer instructions for someone starting
at your level<eg. don't know what a sealer is>.
Applying a top class Lac finish is a process that can take lots of time
to master, even if one already knows how to do finishing.
If you don't have someone close who knows how to finish wood
with lac, your only option is trial-and-error - possible,
but not recomended.
If you MUST try - get some lac in spray cans, available at Lowe's,
WalMart, etc., and read the instructions.
Dale
pdcue said:
Alittle harsh there Dale But True
I could'nt begin to go into everything I did to get a good finish in one thread, That was achieved from alot of practice, experiementing, using different stuff, and different advice from several others on here. Sealing is another thread altogether also. If I had more time I would be more then happy to try and explain, but I don't have as much spare time right now as I use to, to start from ground 1. Archive searches here should bring some usefull info up though. The only thing I can really say Is that It's one of the few over the counter products here locally, that I've tried, that worked & put a nice, clear, finish on. It buffs out well with scratch & polishing compounds too. Not going to find all that goes into what I did on the back of the can though unfortunately, but I suppose It's a start. Anyone that's sprayed urethane succcessfully could do It though, as My methods were basically the same as using It.
Greg
Cue Crazy said:Alittle harsh there Dale But True
Greg
Greg, just what brand of canned spray product that you have had success with? I've never been able to get a hard finish with canned spray. Maybe I was putting on to thick of a coat but I've tried at least 10 brands with no success. I would like something quick and easy when making replacement shafts for people.
Dick
pdcue said:
Pdcue I must have an incrediable impact on you for you to keep bashing me. Dinkwater, basically what pdcue is saying, is that.............well never mind but it is offensive. What have I ever done to you. Its funny how things get back around to people. I remenber once how people were giving me lectures in safety and rncue came up with a missing finger. Now, that was a tragedy, but still pratical of how this old world works. I hope the finger is doing well. Pdcue you have a lot of experience in cue making no doubt, but remember you were once new as well. And this was way back when even a steady rest was top secreat. Please relax a little enjoy your gift of cuebuilding and spread you knowledge to those who want to learn the trait. I promise you, these are the things that will last forever, not the animosity!!
Cue Crazy said:Alittle harsh there Dale But True
Greg
Harsh is true, but in my own defense, normal, polite conversation
obviously wasn't penetrating.
You gave a good feel of just how much it takes to get even
a decent finish, and, as you know, your post doesn't even
cover the highlight reel.
Dale<restrained to a point>
i am with dick, i never a finish product in a spray can that was even close to what i wanted, i gave up on it 10 years ago though. there may be something out there now. all i ever wound up with was finishes that never got hard and some even remained sticky idefinitely.
mark smith
mark smith custom cues / beezers billiards
(479)970-0056
mark smith
mark smith custom cues / beezers billiards
(479)970-0056
pdcue said:
Ok, I'll bite! Can somebody here who has a clue please explaine to me what this man is talking about!
I have a retired uncle who cant read or write past a 5th grade level. Some how for the past 30 years he has managed to clear over $200,000 annually owning a construction company. It would take a lot of cue sticks to make that much. But like you said reading is handy, Who knows what he would have made if he were able to read. But then again perhaps his reading and illiteracy charity wouldn't be as helpful as it has been. Perhaps he would have been like everyone else and pissed it away.
Minwax water based polycrylic is about as easy and good of a finish as you will find in a spray can at Home Depot. What they mean by sealing the cue with epoxy is to mix up a little five minute epoxy and put on a rubber glove and wipe it into the pores of the wood filling them up and leaving very little on the surface. Now when you spray the polycrylic or laquer on the cue it won't have to fill up those pores and will save you a lot of coats. If you don't have a lathe to spin the cue on you are going to have to use a lot of elbow grease sanding up and down that cue between coats. There is no simple answer that is a no brainer. Finishing cues is one of the hardest things to master and it sounds like it is going to be the start of your cue work.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com
rhncue said:
The brand I had some success with was the Deft I mentioned, but I'm not sure if you would find It hard enough or not. It does seem to get harder over time, but maybe not hard like a urethane, altough Deft makes a polyurethane now in spray, I have'nt tried it out yet though. I did about 3 cotes at a time with the lacquer, cause I had no mandrels, and had to crack the joint inbetween, but I did load a good finish up overall. The whole cue seemed to be holding well, but it did take a hit in the buttsleeve, altough the hit it took there could possibly happen with a harder finish also. I have thought about a thin skim cote of CA over softer finishes in the past to harden the surface up, but have never tried it on this stuff. The cue I used the deft on My dad shot with, and I shot with for a while before selling at a discount, and the only mark on it was a small place in the sleeve simular to what I see from most finishes that take hits there. It did not chip out though, and looked like It could be fixed easy enough. I got the stuff at ACE, few bucks for a can, so may be worth experiementing with. I think you can buff it out quicker, but It will roll up some and load paper, so not the hardest at first, and would have to use controlled pressure while sanding. I let it harden for atleast a week or so to be safe, and not sure If it would be suitable for matching shafts given the time requirements, so Ca or something like that may still be more feasable. Still for a few bucks a can it may be worth trying out
Greg
This thread is starting to get quite funny actually. Its clear to me that finishing is not something I want tackle myself. I am actually quite capable and good with my hands having built my own subwoofer box, and helped build a house one summer. But, in any event, I have finally found a very good cue for myself and just want the lacquer finish done right once. I have enough information here to try it myself, and thank you all for the help but it sounds more time consuming then just spraying on some coats. There are two cuemakers in town. One I know charges 75 for something that isnt quite lacquer but something a little softer that can heal itself from being dinged (with a bit of heat).
P.S. Bubs. Thanks for sticking up for me. Yes, I am definitely a newbie. Maybe I will start a new thread about snooker extensions and recommended joint technology...ya.. that will definitely get some opinions..lol
P.S. Bubs. Thanks for sticking up for me. Yes, I am definitely a newbie. Maybe I will start a new thread about snooker extensions and recommended joint technology...ya.. that will definitely get some opinions..lol
bubsbug said:
Quick rundown here
Picture deft3 shows the ringwork after epoxy seal. You want this as smooth as possible, but It's not going to be perfect cause You apply By hand. I used a low rpm motor to apply and help level the system three clearcote epoxy off until it dried, West is probably better, but this stuff worked. As Chris mentioned gloves are the way I put It on. For alot of things I use latex, to keep glue and stuff off My hands, so I don't have to cut or sand some of it off, but in this case was afraid they would stick & wrap around the cue. My brother had a box of blue nitrile gloves in his truck that worked well one time, so that's what I use now. You can see in the picture that the epoxy sealer is not very smooth. That brings up picture deft4- this picture was taken after sanding the epoxy I believe. To achieve this I had to go through a serious of different grain paper. With each one I would sand with the lathe rotating, then stop it and sand lenth ways, then do the same proccess with the next coarse of paper down to 320 or 400. When I'm done the epoxy should be level with no shiny spots. anything low will be shiney and finish will not stick well, besides it not being leveled. The epoxy proccess will help seal off any grain & low spots as mentioned in this thread already, and also give a good base or primer to apply a finish.It will also save you alot of cotes of uneeded finish that It would take to fill and level the cue out, not to mention possible sand through problems or issues that may show up in the final product.
Applying the deft was done with the joints screwed together since I had no mandrels, and was also rotating from a string in the ceiling, with a shaft hanger holding the cue to the string. I figure I had about three cotes where I could still crack the joint clean, so I let it flash which happens fairly quickly, cracked the joint screwed it back together and sprayed 3 more. Sometimes I could load up the cue up, and get away with It, cause the spray goes on thin, but there's a fine line, and if you see white forming anywhere, you have to stop right there, and keep rotating the cue til It disappears. At that point I would also stop the session, let it cure and level it back out If needed before doing another session.
When I felt I had a thick enough finish, I would let it cure, the longer the better It sands. sand much Like I did the epoxy, only I would start with a lesser grit paper, and go into a finer one then I did with the epoxy. After that a simple buff with a cloth would do a world of good alone, but afterwards I polished with regular 3m scratch remover that you can buy at the autoparts place, buffed, then used some Meguiar's Scratch X, and that really brought the finish out. I know there are better products, but with the exception of the epoxy, everything else was aquired locally from hardware store or autoparts stores, so anyone could do It. It may not be the hardest finish, but for what It is, I have had the best results. Ofcoarse with the amount of work that goes into it, you mide as well be spraying auto clear, as that would be a much better finish. The last pictures are finished, and My camera lighting is not so good, but I assure the finish is clear & deeper then they show.
I've still only touched the surface here, but trying to give back alittle. Hopefully It should give the general idea, and save someone that has been kind enough to take their time out to explain these things to me & others in the past, from having to repeat it on here again. There should still be much usefull info in past threads, and oils asside, most methods are simular, just have to experiement with each finish and figure out that finish, cause they each have their issues & pains to deal with.
I would always recomend practicing on something of little or no value before doing anything. Just about anyway you go is no easy chore, and practice and experiementation is the best way, to aquire a refined method that works with any given type of finish. Remember with the deft I'm not saying that it's a class 1 finish, but for a hobbiest that just wants a decent looking finish It may be something worth trying. I would'nt use it on more cues then Your willing to refinish, because I don't know what the long term condition will be, and it's not the hardest finish that could be applied.
Good Luck
Greg
Picture deft3 shows the ringwork after epoxy seal. You want this as smooth as possible, but It's not going to be perfect cause You apply By hand. I used a low rpm motor to apply and help level the system three clearcote epoxy off until it dried, West is probably better, but this stuff worked. As Chris mentioned gloves are the way I put It on. For alot of things I use latex, to keep glue and stuff off My hands, so I don't have to cut or sand some of it off, but in this case was afraid they would stick & wrap around the cue. My brother had a box of blue nitrile gloves in his truck that worked well one time, so that's what I use now. You can see in the picture that the epoxy sealer is not very smooth. That brings up picture deft4- this picture was taken after sanding the epoxy I believe. To achieve this I had to go through a serious of different grain paper. With each one I would sand with the lathe rotating, then stop it and sand lenth ways, then do the same proccess with the next coarse of paper down to 320 or 400. When I'm done the epoxy should be level with no shiny spots. anything low will be shiney and finish will not stick well, besides it not being leveled. The epoxy proccess will help seal off any grain & low spots as mentioned in this thread already, and also give a good base or primer to apply a finish.It will also save you alot of cotes of uneeded finish that It would take to fill and level the cue out, not to mention possible sand through problems or issues that may show up in the final product.
Applying the deft was done with the joints screwed together since I had no mandrels, and was also rotating from a string in the ceiling, with a shaft hanger holding the cue to the string. I figure I had about three cotes where I could still crack the joint clean, so I let it flash which happens fairly quickly, cracked the joint screwed it back together and sprayed 3 more. Sometimes I could load up the cue up, and get away with It, cause the spray goes on thin, but there's a fine line, and if you see white forming anywhere, you have to stop right there, and keep rotating the cue til It disappears. At that point I would also stop the session, let it cure and level it back out If needed before doing another session.
When I felt I had a thick enough finish, I would let it cure, the longer the better It sands. sand much Like I did the epoxy, only I would start with a lesser grit paper, and go into a finer one then I did with the epoxy. After that a simple buff with a cloth would do a world of good alone, but afterwards I polished with regular 3m scratch remover that you can buy at the autoparts place, buffed, then used some Meguiar's Scratch X, and that really brought the finish out. I know there are better products, but with the exception of the epoxy, everything else was aquired locally from hardware store or autoparts stores, so anyone could do It. It may not be the hardest finish, but for what It is, I have had the best results. Ofcoarse with the amount of work that goes into it, you mide as well be spraying auto clear, as that would be a much better finish. The last pictures are finished, and My camera lighting is not so good, but I assure the finish is clear & deeper then they show.
I've still only touched the surface here, but trying to give back alittle. Hopefully It should give the general idea, and save someone that has been kind enough to take their time out to explain these things to me & others in the past, from having to repeat it on here again. There should still be much usefull info in past threads, and oils asside, most methods are simular, just have to experiement with each finish and figure out that finish, cause they each have their issues & pains to deal with.
I would always recomend practicing on something of little or no value before doing anything. Just about anyway you go is no easy chore, and practice and experiementation is the best way, to aquire a refined method that works with any given type of finish. Remember with the deft I'm not saying that it's a class 1 finish, but for a hobbiest that just wants a decent looking finish It may be something worth trying. I would'nt use it on more cues then Your willing to refinish, because I don't know what the long term condition will be, and it's not the hardest finish that could be applied.
Good Luck
Greg
