Ian Anderson's statement about missing players

Article in the Manila Standard Today

Hurting the sport of billiards
By Ronnie Nathanielsz

WE have consciously sought to stay away from the debilitating quarrel between two factors in Philippine pool, that at times has degenerated into a level of arrogance and meanness that cannot but hurt the sport and distress the millions of Filipinos, who support the sport in its various formats.

That?s because close friends of many summers are positioned on either side and if we have any interest at all, it?s in trying to bring the two factions together in the interest of the sport, the many fine players that the country has bred and a public that should never be deprived of seeing the very best represent the Philippines.

This should be the underlying principle, whether it be in regional competitions such as the Southeast Asian Games and Asian Games or pro tournaments like the Guinness 9-Ball Tour, the World Pool Championships and the recent World 10-Ball Championships.

However, while in Cebu to cover two excellent boxing promotions back-to-back in Talisay and Naga City, we read a Standard Today story quoting World Pool Association president Ian Anderson who, when asked about the absence of pool legends Efren ?Bata? Reyes, Django Bustamante, former World Pool Champions Ronnie Alcano and Alex Pagulayan and reigning world no. 1 Dennis Orcollo, replied that the quality of play will not diminish and that they are not the only top world players. He went on to state that the absence of Reyes, Bustamante and Pagulayan ?won?t matter in the event.?

If Anderson dared watch television, he would have realized that their absence did matter because the crowds were sparse to say that least, so much so that at one point, Ted Lerner had to seat the few fans behind him and ask them to make a much noise as possible.

Besides, for Anderson to downgrade the likes of Reyes, who is acknowledged as the greatest pool player of all time and a Time magazine awardee is an affront to all of us, who have thrilled at the exploits of The Magician and others and enjoyed their demeanor both at the table and away from it. The flag-waving overseas workers, who crowned venues in the Middle East and Europe, whenever Reyes and his buddies play is a testament to their admiration for the quality of their game and affection for such simple, down-to-earth individuals, who are a tribute to our country. Of course, Anderson had to probably say that he said because the WPA earns a percentage of the prize money as sanction fees and he knows, at least for the present, where his bread is buttered.

To stage a $400,000 tournament in Manila amid the absence of the superstars of Philippine pool was like giving good money away to the foreign players without a decent fight with the notable exception of Demosthenes Pulpul.

It becomes even more questionable when the major sponsors were government owned or controlled entities such as Pagcor and the Department of Tourism, who skimp in support of our national sports programs, but somehow found the funds to support this tournament, which did nothing to enhance the reputation of the Philippines being the epicenter of pool. That honor was deservedly earned as a result of the tremendously successful World Pool Championships, staged by Raya Sports, headed by Yen Makabenta in 2006 and 2007 when our best players completed, with Ronnie Alcano being crowned champion in 2006 and Roberto Gomez finishing runner-up in 2007.

The crowds were there in full force, particularly at the PICC in 2006, while nowhere near those numbers showed up at the 10-Ball Event.

If government supports such events with substantial funding, it is incumbent on those responsible to find out, who is playing and whether we can get the kind of exposure that justifies the investment. Beyond that, if government considered it an investment, then rather than follow the example of GSIS president Winston Garcia, who refuses to provide details of foreign investments with the money of its members claiming confidentiality, they need to release information because the public has a right to know.
 
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monski said:
Maybe the WPA should step in... to help resolve everything...

Monski, did you understand this part of the above article from Ronnie Nathanielz?

"However, while in Cebu to cover two excellent boxing promotions back-to-back in Talisay and Naga City, we read a Standard Today story quoting World Pool Association president Ian Anderson who, when asked about the absence of pool legends Efren ?Bata? Reyes, Django Bustamante, former World Pool Champions Ronnie Alcano and Alex Pagulayan and reigning world no. 1 Dennis Orcollo, replied that the quality of play will not diminish and that they are not the only top world players. He went on to state that the absence of Reyes, Bustamante and Pagulayan "won't matter in the event.?"

WPA step-in to resolve? They stepped-in alright but not to resolve but to also belittle the Filipino Champions! YOUR CHAMPIONS MONSKI! Do you understand that!!!!
 
winners and losers

win: Plong Plong Pulpul, international debut

lose: raya/wpa, poor venue attendance (don't know about the tv numbers)

win: Jherico Banares, very impressed with his confidence and game, international debut

lose: wu chai ching, good run though

win: daz deserves to win because he outlplayed wu, also he's been busting his arse in tournaments and money games in the philippines for some time too.

lose: philippine pool, big names not in tournament

win: local philippine room action during event, big names not in tournament matching up with the influx of international palyers

lose: big names not in tournament, possible payout

The WPA and Raya stating that the big names won't be missed in a champinonship tournament without the best local palyers, who also happen to be some of the best players in the world, is political spin at it's finest!!!!

Imagine the English Premier tournament without Manchester United?

What about the MLB playoffs if the Dodgers, Red Socks, Devil Rays, et al sitting out the season?

What about the NFL palyoffs without the Patriots, Cowboys, Steelers, Broncos & Giants?

The other argument that absence of the big name players allows others to come out, i.e. Banares and Pulpul etc. is also false. The proof is the World Nine Ball championships in '06. I was there. That tournament was a coming out party for not only Ronnie Alcano but Jeff Deluna and Jherome Pena too. All of this while the big name Filipino players were playing in the tournament too. In '07, wasn't there but watched, we all got to see Roberto Gomez make his run. Efren et al were in that tournament too.

Too make such statements is showing an unwillingness to try and reach accross to figure out a resolution to the conflict. It's flipping the finger and saying "We don't need you and you won't be missed!"

Not a good message, too much pride. Both sides are guilty in this department.

kano
 
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I know about the statement. I did not like that either. They are my champions. I even have Efren in my signature.

However, I still would like to see them play in the WPA because the players and the WPA want them to play. I don't want them to lose out on the opportunity to get a fat paycheck.

Ian even said that he prefers to have them play. So, I don't think he was belittling them. He was just trying to UP the credibility of the tournament imo. Anyway, the winner can still proudly say that he's a world champion. It was a tough field of players.

I was hoping that WPA can help smooth things out.

My feeling is Makabenta still wont step down from BSCP. And he will still keep on promoting the world event. He has staged several already. So I don't think he will step down.

What I'm thinking about right now... with the conclusion of the WTB:

1) Was the event run professionally?
2) Did the players get paid?
3) Is there any impropriety in business practice similar as previously hurled against him (alleged)?

If everything was well run, maybe the BMPAP has already succeeded. Its relevance underscored. BMPAP will still be needed in the interest of its members.

Having said that, this may now be the opportunity to heal wounds for the good of the sport and the players. If the WTB was run credibly and professionally, maybe BMPAP can also see a way of working it out with YM with WPA supporting both camps. Maybe everyone can have a role to play in the future.

Just my thoughts on the matter.
 
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monski said:
I know about the statement. I did not like that either. They are my champions. I even have Efren in my signature.

However, I still would like to see them play in the WPA because the players and the WPA want them to play. I don't want them to lose out on the opportunity to get a fat paycheck.

Ian even said that he prefers to have them play. So, I don't think he was belittling them. He was just trying to UP the credibility of the tournament imo. Anyway, the winner can still proudly say that he's a world champion. It was a tough field of players.

I was hoping that WPA can help smooth things out.

My feeling is Makabenta still wont step down from BSCP. And he will still keep on promoting the world event. He has staged several already. So I don't think he will step down.

What I'm thinking about right now... with the conclusion of the WTB:

1) Was the event run professionally?
2) Did the players get paid?
3) Is there any impropriety in business practice similar as previously hurled against him (alleged)?

If everything was well run, maybe the BMPAP has already succeeded. Its relevance underscored. BMPAP will still be needed in the interest of its members.

Having said that, this may now be the opportunity to heal wounds for the good of the sport and the players. If the WTB was run credibly and professionally, maybe BMPAP can also see a way of working it out with YM with WPA supporting both camps. Maybe everyone can have a role to play in the future.

Just my thoughts on the matter.



I guess you haven't been keeping up on the news monski. They (Ian/Yen/Raya/BSCP) were singing
a different tune months ago but decided that they wanted the top Filipino pool players to participate
in their tournament at the 11th hour, exactly 2 and a half weeks before the tournament started, you
know why? Because they can't find enough sponsors to get the ball rolling. Without the Pinoy big names,
the sponsors won't commit, no ROI. The BMPAP and the players themselves have their own schedules
to keep, like the BMPAP have their own tournaments the whole year round, and some of the players have
committed themselves to play overseas. Since they (BMPAP players) know months ahead that they are
not welcome, they went through with their planned schedule, which some of them coincided with the
Raya's WTB tournament.
 
Are you responding to this? I'm still hoping that the camps can work it out...

---------------
What I'm thinking about right now... with the conclusion of the WTB:

1) Was the event run professionally?
2) Did the players get paid?
3) Is there any impropriety in business practice similar as previously hurled against him (alleged)?

If everything was well run, maybe the BMPAP has already succeeded. Its relevance underscored. BMPAP will still be needed in the interest of its members.

Having said that, this may now be the opportunity to heal wounds for the good of the sport and the players. If the WTB was run credibly and professionally, maybe BMPAP can also see a way of working it out with YM with WPA supporting both camps. Maybe everyone can have a role to play in the future.

Just my thoughts on the matter.
---------------------
 
Up until now, I still cannot think of Jay's underlying secret reasons that had brought about the BSCP/Raya vs BMPAP row.

My summary is that WTB was what it came to be:

1] The top players and their managers did not like the way they were treated by Makabenta.

2] The Sanctioning bodies (WPA, POC, PSC) did not listen to the complaints and automatically cuddled Makabenta without inquiries whatsoever.

3] BMPAP had nothing to reconsider because Makabenta was too proud to personally rectify things. If BMPAP was asked to reconsider, it came in the form of official statements saying all players were invited. No formal invitation was sent to BMPAP to join WTB.

4] Makabenta did not prepare well for the WTB.
a) He had not enough sponsors and spot commercials.
b) There were no pre-tournament announcements on print nor TV media to draw in the audience. The absence of top players was not the only reason for empty seats.
c) TV production was below standard.
d) Tables were not prepared well. On the first day, slow moving balls were curving like crazy.

5] Instead of being upfront and factual about how things were happening, Makabenta maintained a facade from the start, from all his AZ articles and statements to the obvious effort to deceive the audience in "upgrading" the event.

6] Andersen's joining Makabenta in making it appear that the WTBC was indeed a successful world tournament shows the power of persuasion of Makabenta. Admirably, he did a lot of persuading in getting the Philippine government into sponsoring the WTB. That's a lot of bucks from a third world government!
 
Just as an FYI, I was told that Ian personally invited each of the BMPAP players and they were offered wildcards into the WTBC.

Mike

sputnik said:
3] BMPAP had nothing to reconsider because Makabenta was too proud to personally rectify things. If BMPAP was asked to reconsider, it came in the form of official statements saying all players were invited. No formal invitation was sent to BMPAP to join WTB.
 
AzHousePro said:
Just as an FYI, I was told that Ian personally invited each of the BMPAP players and they were offered wildcards into the WTBC.

Mike




Give us a time frame about the invite Mike, was this before or after they've realized that nobody's interested to invest in their tournament?
 
I don't know when the invitations were made. But you stated that the players were never invited. I was told that they were.

It was certainly in the best interest of the game of pro pool to have the top Filipino players in attendance at the event. And I believe that was the spirit in which the invitations were made.

I believe the WPA was trying to give the BMPAP players a way to play without them having to be viewed as accepting an invitation from the BSCP.

Mike

gopi-1 said:
Give us a time frame about the invite Mike, was this before or after they've realized that nobody's interested to invest in their tournament?
 
AzHousePro said:
I don't know when the invitations were made. But you stated that the players were never invited. I was told that they were.

It was certainly in the best interest of the game of pro pool to have the top Filipino players in attendance at the event. And I believe that was the spirit in which the invitations were made.

I believe the WPA was trying to give the BMPAP players a way to play without them having to be viewed as accepting an invitation from the BSCP.

Mike


Like you Mike, I really wish both groups can work this thing out, but if they can't come to terms, then so be it.
As long as Raya/Yen do their tournaments FAIRLY, LEGALLY and for EVERYBODY, and that includes the BMPAP
players, and can deliver on their prize money, I'm sure the pool players from all over the world will have no qualms
about going to too many tournaments that offers decent money, and this goes to BMPAP as well.

...and lastly, NO conflicting tournament schedules on both sides too please...
 
AzHousePro said:
I don't know when the invitations were made. But you stated that the players were never invited. I was told that they were.

It was certainly in the best interest of the game of pro pool to have the top Filipino players in attendance at the event. And I believe that was the spirit in which the invitations were made.

I believe the WPA was trying to give the BMPAP players a way to play without them having to be viewed as accepting an invitation from the BSCP.

Mike

The WPA invited, but in the case of BSCP/Raya, it was not an invitation two weeks into the tournament (before they got sponsors). It was part of negotiations. The two parties sat down and Raya wanted BMPAP players to play in the National 10-Ball and WTBC but BMPAP gave the condition that Makabenta should step down from BSCP. No deal. At that point, if Makabenta had the sponsors, it was most improbable that he would even try to negotiate for BMPAP players to join his tournament. Remember his condition in an official statement - that the payers, including Efren, should publicly apologize for putting him in a bad light before they can join his tournament? The meeting was a signal that Raya indeed at that time did not have sponsors and they were panicking.

I cited (in a thread somewhere) an argument wondering why BSCP was so important to Makabenta... and came up with the conclusion that the WPA accreditation was too important for him to drop so as to secure his WTB accreditation.

Water under the bridge actually, but lessons can be learned from this whole scene.
 
Is it just me or isn't the APBU repsonsible to sort out the issues between the utlimate constituents (the players) and the national member organization? Why is the WPA involved in this at all? They are one removed from the national organization as the BSCP is the member organization which belongs to the Asian Pocket Billiard Union which in turn is a member of the World Pool Association.

I can see a Raya Sports/WPA connection regarding sanctioning of a "World Championship". Which on the surface does have some smell of a conflict of interest when the owner of the promotional company also sits at the top of the sport's governing body. This has happened before with no disasatorous results though, as in when Mr. Tu from Taiwan produced the 9-Ball World Championships there.

I just don't understand how the APBU is not involved in handling the complaints of so many players in the Phillipines against their national organization. I don't know if this is their mandate but it cannot be in their best interests to have the Phillipine's top player boycotting WPA/APBU sanctioned events.

It seems to me that this would or should be one of the things that a World Pool Association and it's continental members should preside over.

Just thinking out loud.
 
JB Cases said:
Is it just me or isn't the APBU repsonsible to sort out the issues between the utlimate constituents (the players) and the national member organization? Why is the WPA involved in this at all? They are one removed from the national organization as the BSCP is the member organization which belongs to the Asian Pocket Billiard Union which in turn is a member of the World Pool Association.

I can see a Raya Sports/WPA connection regarding sanctioning of a "World Championship". Which on the surface does have some smell of a conflict of interest when the owner of the promotional company also sits at the top of the sport's governing body. This has happened before with no disasatorous results though, as in when Mr. Tu from Taiwan produced the 9-Ball World Championships there.

I just don't understand how the APBU is not involved in handling the complaints of so many players in the Phillipines against their national organization. I don't know if this is their mandate but it cannot be in their best interests to have the Phillipine's top player boycotting WPA/APBU sanctioned events.

It seems to me that this would or should be one of the things that a World Pool Association and it's continental members should preside over.

Just thinking out loud.

It actually is confusing. From the WPA constitution:

2.4 Autonomy
The WPA is organised democratically and refrains from involvement in the internal affairs of the continental and other organisations within the WPA membership. Similarly, other organisations will refrain from involvement in the internal affairs of pool-billiards. Only with just cause as determined by the Board or by a specific request will the WPA investigate with the intent to cure any problem.

2.5 General Statement
The WPA will not tolerate discrimination against a continent, organisation or individual for reason of race, colour, creed, religion, gender and is politically neutral.


I have been saying this time and again... what is so important with Makabenta's WTBC that Andersen has even gone outside of his mandate just to protect Makabenta? Or why did he even automatically side with Makabenta despite complaints against BSCP? Or why did the Board not see the Philippine situation as worthy of investigation? Why did he tolerate discrimination against an organisation (BMPAP) and not stay politically neutral? What wsa so important with WTBC that Andersen had to go out of his mandate to protect Makabenta's event? What was in it for him?

I am sorry but no amount of vouching for Andersen's character convinces me that Andersen comes out clean from his own infraction of the WPA constitution. Likewise, no amount of praise for Makabenta's abilities can convince me he got sponsorship from the govenment by presenting a project study of such inferior world championship that we had witnessed... and without the top Filipino idols playing a that!
 
sputnik said:
It actually is confusing. From the WPA constitution:

2.4 Autonomy
The WPA is organised democratically and refrains from involvement in the internal affairs of the continental and other organisations within the WPA membership. Similarly, other organisations will refrain from involvement in the internal affairs of pool-billiards. Only with just cause as determined by the Board or by a specific request will the WPA investigate with the intent to cure any problem.

2.5 General Statement
The WPA will not tolerate discrimination against a continent, organisation or individual for reason of race, colour, creed, religion, gender and is politically neutral.


I have been saying this time and again... what is so important with Makabenta's WTBC that Andersen has even gone outside of his mandate just to protect Makabenta? Or why did he even automatically side with Makabenta despite complaints against BSCP? Or why did the Board not see the Philippine situation as worthy of investigation? Why did he tolerate discrimination against an organisation (BMPAP) and not stay politically neutral? What wsa so important with WTBC that Andersen had to go out of his mandate to protect Makabenta's event? What was in it for him?

I am sorry but no amount of vouching for Andersen's character convinces me that Andersen comes out clean from his own infraction of the WPA constitution. Likewise, no amount of praise for Makabenta's abilities can convince me he got sponsorship from the govenment by presenting a project study of such inferior world championship that we had witnessed... and without the top Filipino idols playing a that!

What infraction was that? Did Anderson get involved in the BSCP issues? I mean I can see where the he would "support" the decision to sanction Raya Sport's presentation of the WTBC. But I don't see how that sanctioning involves the WPA in the dispute between the BSCP and the BMAPA (sp?).

I mean on one hand you have a promoter (Raya) offering to put on a tournament and asking for sanctioning. It's the WPA's job to review it and either grant or deny sanctioning. To me the WPA has no right to deny that sanctioning based on a dispute that some players have with their national organization. So it states in the bylaws you quoted, more or less.

My question is did the BPAMA (please get an EASY TO REMEMBER ACRONYM) appeal directly to the WPA to intervene? Did it appeal to the APBU? The answer is probably yes although what the procedure was is unknown. If so then the question is WHY didn't the WPA and the APBU decide to intervene and try to bring resolution?

My opinion on this is that when a sizable contingent of the world's elite players forgoes a payday (or potential) payday in the $400,000 (because you know full well that an awful lot of that money would have stayed in the Phillipines), when they boycott such a high profile event then it's pretty serious grievances that they have, whether they are right or wrong.

So in this instance it seems to me that this is the situation where the WPA/APBU should intervene.
 
So in this instance it seems to me that this is the situation where the WPA/APBU should intervene.

I agree. But why an instance based on hindsight? They shoud have intervened long ago.
 
sputnik said:
I agree. But why an instance based on hindsight? They shoud have intervened long ago.

Again we don't know all the circumstances. We don't really know what exactly the WPA/APBU was approached with or confronted with before the tournament began.

Apparently Ian Andersen appealed to the missing players and extended an invitation. However Ian Andersen and the WPA cannot force Yen Makebenta to resign.

I suppose that they could put pressure on the APBU to disenfranchise the BSCP but they might have felt that they were not in a position to take sides on the matter.

So should Ian Andersen withdraw the sanction for the tournament? Why should he do that if the BSCP and Raya are both in good standing with the WPA?

The only way to solve this is to get all parties to the table and hash it out. OR for the disgruntled group to do their own thing and force the other parties out of business.

Right now hindsight is all we have. So from here the players have stuck to their principles and proven that they will boycott BSCP events. I think it was pretty clear what the absence of those players did to the moral and financial draw of the tournament. So now it's up to all parties to renegotiate and see if resolution can be found. If not then let the group who is able to produce a better show win.

John
 
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