Ideal spin question
- Thread starter TrumanHW
- Start date
Listen. In order to maintain air-speed velocity, a swallow needs to beat its wings forty-three times every second, right?
For practical puposes you could say none but depending on the angle you have and the speed you use there is no answer without a diagram... 1 degree is an angles as is 89 degrees.....
Lets treat these as facts:
The object ball isn't on the rail
Its close enough so that making it travel parallel the rail will pocket the ball
The object ball and cue ball weigh identical amounts.
What spin should the cue ball have at contact with the OB?
Still depends on the incoming angle and speed... as contact english can offeset, add to, or overcome what was on the cueball at conatct........
If I want a true perpendicular line I use whatever amount of inside is require to offset the english created by contact.... Interesting question but the answer is variable shot to shot.....
That is a piece of advanced insight. I was skeptical as to how quickly someone would get it.
But yes, every time you see the cue ball's cut a ball and though the player struck center ball...the cue ball generally has some outside spin--induced by the cut.
I got on to this thought by thinking about CIT...and how much it accounts for. I'm thinking that the OB gets a little inside (if center ball or other variable induces it) ... but that the "throw" is a lump sum of the spin...at the point in the OB path where it converts to top; so it's not just the changed separation angle distinct from the line of centers...but also where the cut converts; think of hitting a ball with low with side spin; where the low comes off you get an extra arc.
LA is SO humid...once the balls get dirty on our standard 4-1/8th in pockets it's hard.
Given how sharp you were on noting the necessity of inside to mitigate the CIS on the CB with a spinless ball....maybe you see other flaws in my above belief.
All of this depends on if and where you need to move whitey, but to just cinch the ball on a loose to normal pocketed table, spin it with low outside. If the table it tight Im throwing it in with inside.
Chuck
One alternative is to acknowledge and allow the cut-induced spin to pull the CB back off the rail, but counter it with a bit of rolling or top spin as needed. It depends on the shot.
If I need the CB to travel perpendicular to the rail, but I also need to clear another ball that's close to the OB, I'll even add some outside and use additional top to balance it out.
Good thread! I love learning about this advanced stuff.
-Blake
If I need the CB to travel perpendicular to the rail, but I also need to clear another ball that's close to the OB, I'll even add some outside and use additional top to balance it out.
Good thread! I love learning about this advanced stuff.
-Blake
One alternative is to acknowledge and allow the cut-induced spin to pull the CB back off the rail, but counter it with a bit of rolling or top spin as needed. It depends on the shot.
If I need the CB to travel perpendicular to the rail, but I also need to clear another ball that's close to the OB, I'll even add some outside and use additional top to balance it out.
Good thread! I love learning about this advanced stuff.
-Blake
Then allow me to add to the premise;
If the ball bounces back at all it runs in to a ball that'd be impeding it. I DO agree that to cinch it you use a little high outside which gets you a near perpendicular overall path between the two short rails.
But what I mean is if you need the ball to travel table length, perpendicular, precisely...and the angle is only about 20 degrees so you'll be creating some CIT throw which has an equal and opposite effect to the CB of adding CIT outside spin. The answer I was confirming was that a modicum of inside kills that effect.
Excellent.
Perhaps if you needed more than one table length of travel (1.5x for example), you would need to reduce the amount of inside to offset the reduced CIT due to the higher speed.
I'm not 100% sure about that, but I'd enjoy hearing your thoughts on it.
Thanks,
-Blake
Interesting. I'm assuming we're talking about playing position on a second ball on the same short rail.
This question was just to get the first fact in agreement with those here; that cutting a ball puts spin on the cue ball...even if there was none on it. Equal and opposite forces, obviously.
But the second part that I'm looking to discuss now is exactly what throw is; if it's two things or one... then the simplest version to examine is a spinless ball hitting it.
Is it a static percent of reduced cut based on speed and cut angle? Or is it a reduced cut followed by a slight curve when the spin eventually converts to follow?
When I initially read this I had no idea what you meant, but after reading subsequent posts I think what you meant is that you want the CB to rebound perpendicularly off the rail.
Please reword all this.