If I was KT...

TheOne

www.MetroPool.club
Silver Member
After some thought I thought I should submit a serious reply to Wayne's question about how we would set up our own IPT if we had the money. As much as I enjoyed the sarcasm in that thread here's my serious answer...

Summary
In summary I think that the IPT is fantastic, I have been calling for 8 ball on 9ft tables to be the "game of choice" for quite some time. The IPT have done a fantastic job with the events and venue so far, and as a web developer myself I think the website is probably their biggest triumph to date.

Tour Format
I would have 256 players on my tour because I don't think a tour of 150 players is big enough to accommodate all the greatest players in the world. Both the Euro tour and the US Open for example cope quite well with 256 player fields and given this is supposed to be a WORLD tour I think 256 players in the right number. However of course something has to give with regards to the tournament format given a field of this size if I want to fit all the games into the same 1 week tournament period. I like the round robin format but I would tweak this slightly to something similar to the WPC. I would have 32 groups of 8 players with the top half (4 players) in each group advancing to a 128 double elimination stage with longer races. The draw for the second stage would be based on group performance, with the best performers playing the worse performers. I believe this system would reduce the chances of players throwing matches which despite the win/loss index could still be a major issue at the latter stages of a tournament if both players are easily in the top 100 and 1 player has no chance of advancing from the group (given the sums of money towards the end of the tournament are so large). I also think that having a 2 player "final" makes better TV and is easier for the audience to follow, I would (if possible) make this a long race.


Selection Process
This is probably the IPT biggest failure, you only have to compare to current qualifying fields to the 150 selected members to realize this. I would have selected 128 players based on world rankings; hall of famers, TV ratings, but all would have a proven achievement and paid their dues. This would form half of the field, the other half I would open up as follows: I would have 3 qualifiers, 1 is Asia, 1 in Europe and 1 in the USA. Entry would be $1000 on a first come first served basis with a 256 limited field. The Top 32 from each of the 3 regional qualifiers would be on the tour. Finally in each venue throughout the year I would hold a qualifier in the week before the event, giving the locals and other players that missed the cut a chance to play in an IPT event, 32 spots, 1 qualifier in each of the 32 groups of 8. So in Summary:

  • 128 Invited Players based on Rankings/Achievements
  • 32 European Qualifiers
  • 32 Asian Qualifiers
  • 32 American Qualifiers
  • 32 Open spots for each IPT event

1st Event
I love the idea of the KOTH and I understand that he needed a top money earner to kick the tour off. However I don't believe he chose wisely in his selected two. I would have chosen the following 4 players:

  • Efren Reyes (current 8 ball WPC at the time)
  • Wu (Current 9 ball WPC at the time)
  • Ronnie O Sullivan (World Snooker No1)
  • Allison Fisher (Women’s World Number1)

I would have paid whatever I had to too make sure these 4 players where invited to the first event as they are all world champions and it would have added extra legitimacy not to mention a fantastic event in itself. The winner of this mini tournament to launch the IPT would be KOTH.

KOTH
After the first event I would have sent 128 golden invites to my chosen 128 players, players that had paid there dues and earnt the right to be involved in the first IPT tournament proper. This invite would contain a DVD of the 1st event, and details of the 13k + 100k guaranteed money and the IPT vision. Each player would have 14 days to accept the invitation or forfeit his/her spot and I would invite somebody else. I would hold the 3 regional qualifiers after the invites had gone out.

First Year Events
I would have an Asian, European, and American Event in the first year plus the World Championship and KOTH events. At the end of the year the bottom 128 ranked players would have to re-qualify to keep their cards.

Conclusion
In summary I agree with much of what KT has done, what I would change would be the selection process and the tournament numbers and format.

So to conclude if I was KT:

  • More players would get the chance to play on the IPT stage.
  • Every single player on the tour would have earnt the right to be there.
  • Every player in the world would have a chance to stake their claim.
  • Qualifiers would be reasonably priced with a 1 in 8 chance of winning a spot.
  • 32 spots would be available at every IPT event to give anyone who hasn’t made the cut a chance to experience the IPT. These qualifiers would also provide cover for "no shows" to ensure a full field at every event.
  • The first event would have pitted the current worlds best from different cue sports together for the right to be called IPT KOTH.
  • The current 8 ball and 9 ball WPC would not have to qualify and possibly miss out on the tour altogether!
  • 50% of the players would be invited and 50% would be qualifiers.
  • 50% of every event would be double elimination and 50% round robin.
  • 50% of the players would have to qualify at the end of the year
 
You have way too much time on your hands to waste on this exercise in futility.

No Mike Sigel as the star attraction?

No American's in the opening match?

128 people to qualify? That's 64 qualifiers. Seems to me if you do one a week you can't accomplish this in a year. And you will be interfering with every single other tournament out there. How will you justify that?

Not as easy as it looks, is it?

And I really couldn't follow your post.

Back to the drawing board.

Better yet, leave the business aspects to the professionals.

Jake
 
jjinfla said:
You have way too much time on your hands to waste on this exercise in futility.

No Mike Sigel as the star attraction?

No American's in the opening match?

128 people to qualify? That's 64 qualifiers. Seems to me if you do one a week you can't accomplish this in a year. And you will be interfering with every single other tournament out there. How will you justify that?

Not as easy as it looks, is it?

And I really couldn't follow your post.

Back to the drawing board.

Better yet, leave the business aspects to the professionals.

Jake

LOL Jake, you just made my day, it took you a long time to come up with something wrong with it and when you did it was a mistake on your part! :rolleyes:

If you read it again you will see in a number of times I mention 3 qualifiers (1 in asia, 1 in europe, and 1 in USA) not the 80+ that KT is currently holding. 32 players would qualify from each qualifier, better for the players, less work for IPT, better for Europeans and Asians.

I thought about including an American but I liked the idea of the 4 I chose, however I would have no problem including Gabe Owen who was the current US Open Champion at the time or Jonny Archer who I think was UPA No1 ranked at the time. Past Champions like Sigel, no thanks. Anything else? :confused:
 
It took me a long time to try and figure it out. Too much thinking for me.

I think the IPT will have 5 + 25 qualifiers. I haven't figured out how they are going to get through those 25 qualifiers before the first tournament. I like your idea of more people qualifying in a qualifier. But qualifiers do bring in money. At least they do if KT doesn't keep giving it away as fast as it comes in. But I think top 4 finishers to qualify would be nice. Or even top 6. And depending on the size of the field maybe even more.

Two more qualifiers and then we will see how they plan on handling the qualifiers for the first tournament which is only about 5 months away.

Entry fee then will only be $1,000. Did I say only?

Jake
 
jjinfla said:
It took me a long time to try and figure it out. Too much thinking for me.

I think the IPT will have 5 + 25 qualifiers. I haven't figured out how they are going to get through those 25 qualifiers before the first tournament. I like your idea of more people qualifying in a qualifier. But qualifiers do bring in money. At least they do if KT doesn't keep giving it away as fast as it comes in. But I think top 4 finishers to qualify would be nice. Or even top 6. And depending on the size of the field maybe even more.

Two more qualifiers and then we will see how they plan on handling the qualifiers for the first tournament which is only about 5 months away.

Entry fee then will only be $1,000. Did I say only?

Jake

I probably made it over complicated, but as youve probably guessed what irks me as that it could have been soooo much better and fairer, but beggers can't be choosers I guess. But I still hope that he will listen to the players, and make changes for the two open events and the end of year Qualifiers.

I honestly don't believe he is trying to make vast sums out of the qualifiers as he is now starting to give quite a bit back. I think he thinks that he needs to limit the entries. However take it from me ALL the players would prefer 1 qualifier, with lower entry and more spots up for grabs.

As for the other qualifiers, there will be 25 quals each for the 2 open events + 25 qualifiers for the end of year quals (with 2 from each qualifier). Add these to the 5 2006 tour card quals and you get the 80+. I REALLY hope he changes the format of the end of year qualifier. If its going to be 2k+ per shot at 2 spots in will be very very harsh.

You know what often causes the clashes of opinion with regards to the IPT Jake. People are either looking at it as a "fan" or as a "player", I'm looking at it from both angles as Im not sure I'll try and play in it. You are obviously a fan, but I assume if you was a player who had dedicated his life to pool and achieved much you would be pretty dissapointed with having to go through the quals. Of course you would try because that's your dream, to earn a decent living and compete with the best at pool. However I'm sure you would prefer it if it was fairer and cost less.

For fans the IPT is fantastic, for the selected 150 its fantastic, for the pro's that missed out it sucks but at least they have a dream, more than they had before as somebody said.
 
Alison was the first female choice. She turned it down because she would only play with -

Simonis
Break from the side
Short race to 5

I think she is crazy for turning down a guaranteed 75k. I guess she, either, did not realize there was 75k for the loser or getting destroyed by Reyes was not worth 75k. I'd rack for Efren in front of millions for free :)
 
CaptiveBred said:
Alison was the first female choice. She turned it down because she would only play with -

Simonis
Break from the side
Short race to 5

I think she is crazy for turning down a guaranteed 75k. I guess she, either, did not realize there was 75k for the loser or getting destroyed by Reyes was not worth 75k. I'd rack for Efren in front of millions for free :)

I heard stories before that Allison was the first choice to play Mike. But I never heard it from anyone who I would trust. So I have to believe that it is just rumors. I also heard that she was tied in to previous commitments under contract that she could not break. But again, only rumors.

But not playing unless Simonis cloth is used only makes sense if she has a contract with Simonis.

I'm pretty sure she played on all kinds of tables and cloth when she played those challenge matches against Grady.

But she is on the Tour and will play in the first tournament.

Jake
 
Last edited:
TheOne said:
As for the other qualifiers, there will be 25 quals each for the 2 open events + 25 qualifiers for the end of year quals (with 2 from each qualifier). Add these to the 5 2006 tour card quals and you get the 80+. I REALLY hope he changes the format of the end of year qualifier. If its going to be 2k+ per shot at 2 spots in will be very very harsh.

.

My problem looking at the remaining qualifiers (27) prior to the first tournament is how in the heck are they going to fit them in before the tournament?

July 22 is only 21 weeks away. One week for the 4th qualifier; another week for the Weert qualifier. That leaves 19 weeks to fit in 25 qualifiers.

I know that I am old school and they teach new math now with circles, squares and triangles but tell me how they are going to fit in 25 qualifiers in 19 weeks? It just does not work in my math.

That sure won't allow KT to go flying in his new plane or sailing on his new ship. I would think he would like to relax a bit and enjoy himself from time to time. Plus he has his Natural Cures business to run.

And of course, qualifying in this first tournament only allows the player to play in just that one tournament. But if that player wins big and puts him in the top 100 money winners at the end of the year will that qualify him for 2007?

And yes I certainly am not anywhere near good enough at pool to even think about playing on the tour so you are correct in that I only look at it from a fan's viewpoint. And contrary to what people think I do not go gaga over any player. I just know which are the good ones and enjoy watching them. I never lose any sleep over their winning or losing a match. When I watch a match most of the time I really don't care who wins; I just want to watch some good pool. So I hope they both shoot their best.

As far as the players agonizing over trying to be on the tour that is true of every athlete on any pro team out there. it is hard to get on the team and then you have to worry about getting kicked off if your performance falters.

Jake
 
CaptiveBred said:
Alison was the first female choice. She turned it down because she would only play with -

Simonis
Break from the side
Short race to 5

I think she is crazy for turning down a guaranteed 75k. I guess she, either, did not realize there was 75k for the loser or getting destroyed by Reyes was not worth 75k. I'd rack for Efren in front of millions for free :)

That is just crazy, I would've sat in my seat and watched Efren run out from everywhere for a 75k payday. She should've put her pride aside and got her some of that bacon!
 
jjinfla said:
My problem looking at the remaining qualifiers (27) prior to the first tournament is how in the heck are they going to fit them in before the tournament?

July 22 is only 21 weeks away. One week for the 4th qualifier; another week for the Weert qualifier. That leaves 19 weeks to fit in 25 qualifiers.

I know that I am old school and they teach new math now with circles, squares and triangles but tell me how they are going to fit in 25 qualifiers in 19 weeks? It just does not work in my math.

That sure won't allow KT to go flying in his new plane or sailing on his new ship. I would think he would like to relax a bit and enjoy himself from time to time. Plus he has his Natural Cures business to run.

And of course, qualifying in this first tournament only allows the player to play in just that one tournament. But if that player wins big and puts him in the top 100 money winners at the end of the year will that qualify him for 2007?

And yes I certainly am not anywhere near good enough at pool to even think about playing on the tour so you are correct in that I only look at it from a fan's viewpoint. And contrary to what people think I do not go gaga over any player. I just know which are the good ones and enjoy watching them. I never lose any sleep over their winning or losing a match. When I watch a match most of the time I really don't care who wins; I just want to watch some good pool. So I hope they both shoot their best.

As far as the players agonizing over trying to be on the tour that is true of every athlete on any pro team out there. it is hard to get on the team and then you have to worry about getting kicked off if your performance falters.

Jake


Hey Jake, thanks for the rep btw :) Well this may be a bit radical and complicated, I don't know where to start really? Do you know algebra? Well lets say:

c = the number of contries in the world
r = the number of weeks remaining
t = total maximum free weeks to hold qualifiers

Therefore the formula would be......wait for it....

c * r = t

<jumps in the air, does a little jig and Eureka!>

So if you say we have 21 weeks left and lets just say we have 200+ countries in the world, well to be fair lets just do it on continents, and to be even more generous lets not even use them all, say 4?

Therefore:

t = 21 * 4 = 84

OK, so seriously I was told by an IPT player that there would be 25 qualifiers around the world for the open spots. Given the $1000 entry I don't think many players would want to play in them all so I doubt having a qualifier in europe the same weekend as the USA is going to matter much.

However I REALLY hope for the sake of the poor players that misssed out that he holds les qualifiers with more spots and lower entries.

As for the players agonizing about the pro tour, well I've thrashed it to death and even Im bored now but the difference is we have pro's fighting to the death to earn a spot that some average players where handed. It may have happened before in another sport but Im not aware of it?

Cheers
 
I know

it would probably not be fair to those already qualified, but with so little time left to qualify the rest, I would hold about 8 qualifiers and take the top
6 (top 7 on 2 of them) to get the 50. That seems feasible, but 25 more
does not.
 
A decent attempt at a better approach, although selecting the roster based on the motive of geographic balance is an arbitrary method, not one based on merit.

Here's how I'm getting started picking my roster of 150, which I think is plenty enough. Any player qualifies for my tour by meeting any one of the folowing criteria:

1) Top 16 ranked on the UPA Tour in either of the last two calendar years
2) Top 16 ranked on San Miguel Tour in either of last two calendar years
3) Top 16 by ranking on Eurotour in either of the last two calendar years
4) Top 16 by ranking on WPBA in either of the last two calendar years
5) Top 16 at either of the last two WPC events.
6) Top 8 in either of the last two World 8-ball championships
7) Top 8 in either of the last two US Open 9-ball events
8) Top 8 in either of the last two BCA Open 9-ball events
9) Top 8 in either of the last two Derby City 9-ball events
10) Top 8 in either of the last two Reno Open 9-ball events

This will fill most of my roster, and all other spots available will be filled through qualifiers. Far from perfect, but my roster is filled on merit.

Just like KT, I'll drop the bottom fifty every year, and make those spots available through the qualifier system.
 
The One,

I'm not sure but I suspect that somewhere in your formula you are dividing by zero. Anyway, you forget one thing, KT, Deno and his crew attend every qualifier.

Your selection process doesn't even take into account the BD rankings? Sacrilege.

Yes your roster is filled on merit but in my opinion that was not KT's intention when he filled his roster. I believe that he wanted to reward a lot of people and found this an easy way to do it. Also legal. And also profitable to his business. Which is Natural Cures.

In the future, if we ever get to the 2007 season, then the weaker players will fall by the wayside and be replaced by better players. By 2008 they wil be the cream of the cream.

Then too, one must always keep in mind that pool exists in a world of hustle and this too might just be one big hustle. KT might wake up one day and say okay, I've had my fun, now it is time to go play on my ship.

But for now the carrot is still out there.

Jake
 
CaptiveBred said:
Alison was the first female choice. She turned it down because she would only play with -

Simonis
Break from the side
Short race to 5

I think she is crazy for turning down a guaranteed 75k. I guess she, either, did not realize there was 75k for the loser or getting destroyed by Reyes was not worth 75k. I'd rack for Efren in front of millions for free :)


Whatever the story Allison sure did look happy, and stunning, at the KOH.
 

Attachments

  • 2005_1203IPTNov050089 (Small).JPG
    2005_1203IPTNov050089 (Small).JPG
    49.4 KB · Views: 228
jjinfla said:
You have way too much time on your hands to waste on this exercise in futility.

No Mike Sigel as the star attraction?

No American's in the opening match?

128 people to qualify? That's 64 qualifiers. Seems to me if you do one a week you can't accomplish this in a year. And you will be interfering with every single other tournament out there. How will you justify that?

Not as easy as it looks, is it?

And I really couldn't follow your post.

Back to the drawing board.

Better yet, leave the business aspects to the professionals.

Jake

Someone asked a question so Craig put some thought into coming up with a legitimate answer. I'm not sure how you can fault him for that. :confused: Doesn't it get tiresome just trolling for anything that can be taken as negative about the IPT? Maybe Craig isn't the only one with too much time on his hands.
 
Jimmy M. said:
Someone asked a question so Craig put some thought into coming up with a legitimate answer. I'm not sure how you can fault him for that. :confused: Doesn't it get tiresome just trolling for anything that can be taken as negative about the IPT? Maybe Craig isn't the only one with too much time on his hands.


Me negative about the IPT? Surely you jest.

As for my reply to The One I am sure that he knows better than to take anything I say seriously. I am just trying to stimulate him to bigger and better things.

Besides, if it wasn't for me he would die of boredom.

Jake
 
I must be losing my mind. I just realized that The One didn't write that post, SJM did. My bad. How do I get out of this predicament?

Can it be that The One and SJM think alike? Great minds and all that...

Well, I am sure that SJM also knows that I am just fooling around here passing time until my nurse comes to take me away. No harm intended. LOL

Jake
 
jjinfla said:
I must be losing my mind. I just realized that The One didn't write that post, SJM did. My bad. How do I get out of this predicament?

Can it be that The One and SJM think alike? Great minds and all that...

Well, I am sure that SJM also knows that I am just fooling around here passing time until my nurse comes to take me away. No harm intended. LOL

Jake


I would have sworn you meant Doctor? :D Yes SJM and I, well anyone who is either not already on the IPT or is just looking at it from a fans perspectice can see that the IPT could have done better. Yes eventually, in several years time we will get there if the system stays the same. The point I make and I will continue to make is why wait? Lets open the ALL the qualifiers up and make it fairer on the players, less events, more spots, less money! :D

PS
Cheers Jimmy, it does get tiring not being able to voice our opinions, I might move to North Korea for some free speach :)
 
TheOne said:
I would have sworn you meant Doctor? :D Yes SJM and I, well anyone who is either not already on the IPT or is just looking at it from a fans perspectice can see that the IPT could have done better. Yes eventually, in several years time we will get there if the system stays the same. The point I make and I will continue to make is why wait? Lets open the ALL the qualifiers up and make it fairer on the players, less events, more spots, less money! :D

PS
Cheers Jimmy, it does get tiring not being able to voice our opinions, I might move to North Korea for some free speach :)

You probably know that hindsight is 20/20. Of course, starting from NOTHING Kevin Trudeau has done quite well from my perspective. The challenge match and 4 consecutive very exciting tournaments. The line-up would have been much different if all poolplayers knew what they know now. There probably would have been another few thousand applications and some of the players now struggling to get in might have been shoo-ins (think Tang Hoa).

It seems KT is into rewarding believers in him and what he is doing, and he doesn't mind penalizing the non-believers. Hence, his choice of Mike Sigel, the man who taught him how to play pool and now it seems he is a good friend and advisor. It makes total sense that KT reward him and continue to reward him for his contributions. The non-believers who now believe, well they are being made to pay a high price but the $2000 a pop is probably about right based on supply and demand. If it was $500 a pop you would probably have about 200 players each qualifier and they just couldn't accommodate that many. If they limited the field like they have been then a lot of the top talent wouldn't be in the field.

Now that he has set the bar so high it means lowering it (say $500 entry) would create an uproar for those who have been paying $2000 a pop.

Some food for thought.

Wayne
 
  • Like
Reactions: sjm
TheOne said:
PS
Cheers Jimmy, it does get tiring not being able to voice our opinions, I might move to North Korea for some free speach :)
Listen mate!...I fought and died in 3 world wars so you could have your free speech!

If you don't like it, why don't you move to Hackistan:D

*Tongue almost poking through cheek*
 
Back
Top