If someone did this to my cue...

[macguy]

Johnny V

First, that was not an ivory ferrule, it was LBM or another linen based micarta material.

Second, 400 grit paper will not remove any significant amount of material unless you really press hard, or you sand for a long time. Used properly, you won't see any scratches from it either. We do go finer with our cue shafts, but our ferrules are maple and are not as hard as the LBM material is.

Tiger does excellent work. I have seen there work first hand on many occasions and found absolutely nothing wrong with it.

I understand that many people have gone on rants against using any sandpaper on a cue shaft. Well, the fact is that used properly it is a tool that can positively affect on the outcome. If it is used improperly, it can certainly ruin a cue shaft.

You should go to there booth at just about any of the big events and just watch what Elio can do. I'm sure that you will change your mind about this thread.


Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com

Your kidding right? The SOB spends more time sanding the ferrule then he dose the tip. 400 is a very corse paper and will take the ferrule down pretty quick. After a few retippings by that guy it will be a half MM smaller. There is no reason to sand the ferrule at "ALL". What is it you are defending? The guy did a terrible job and doesn't even seem to know it.

 

[macguy]

The cuemaker that puts on tips for me cuts the side of the tip and shapes it with a cutting tool on his lathe. The cutting tool never touches the ferrule. He only uses a very very find sand paper to burnish the sides of the tip/ferrule. I get excited if I loose 1/10 of a MM when someone puts on a tip. I play with 13 MM tips and when they get down past 12.85 I get new shafts. It doesn't like like it takes very long have the guy on the video to get down to 12.85!!!

You should get excited, at that rate after 10 retips you will be down a full MM. You should lose "Nothing" that would even be perceivable in the ferrule when getting a re-tip.

 

[RBC]

Your kidding right? The SOB spends more time sanding the ferrule then he dose the tip. 400 is a very corse paper and will take the ferrule down pretty quick. After a few retippings by that guy it will be a half MM smaller. There is no reason to sand the ferrule at "ALL". What is it you are defending? The guy did a terrible job and doesn't even seem to know it.

I'm kidding?

Do you know how long it would take to remove a half mm? 1 mm is .03975", so a half mm is .0198" or so. If you sand properly with 400 on the ferrule, you would do good to remove .001" with the time he spent on the ferrule. Sure, you could really squeeze down and speed that up, but that is not what he did, or what should be done. I have done thousands of tips for people for many years. If I gave a shaft back without removing the scratches from the ferrule, they would not be happy. You have to remove the scratches that come from chalk, poor use of a tip shaper, and many other things. If you are just replacing the tip only then they still will be upset if the ferrule has scratches on it. I always clean and seal the shaft with a tip replacement. It's just good customer service.

The image that shows the lip behind the ferrule is a different shaft and tip. Not only do they say that it is, it is obviously a different tip and ferrule. The first tip is a Sniper. I know this because I can recognize it, but also because they said so in the video. The second is obviously a different tip. It is brown, not blue.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com

 

[RBC]

It is not a knock... I am just saying if my tip looked like the one in the video I would be upset. Do you agree that the tip @ 3:23 in the video is UUUUUUGLY??? Not knocking just stating fact. If you like a shoulder on your shaft so be it.

If it was a video editing blunder then that is all I am point out. I could give a shiz less who did it.

Johnny V

You mentioned the image at 3:23. You do know that you are looking at a different tip don't you? The image changes at about 3:09. The image prior to that has no lip. He has shown you a complete, start to finish, tip replacement of a Sniper tip. He is done at 3:07 and there is no lip. At 3:11 the image switches and he says "This is the way the Tiger Break Jump looks when it is done with the blade....." He is having you look at the tip. The lip at the shaft indicates that this cue shaft still has other work. He is using this image to show you what the tip looks like. He absolutely did not sand that ferrule down to create that lip. When you build a conventional cue shaft, you install the ferrule and cut it to size with the lathe before you finish sanding the shaft to finish size. This cue shaft is not done yet. He is showing you what the tip looks like, not the rest of it.

Watch it again and I think you will see what I am talking about. Maybe he could have done his video different, but he is not a bad cue repair guy.

It just isn't so!


Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com

 

[Billiard Architect]

Johnny V

You mentioned the image at 3:23. You do know that you are looking at a different tip don't you? The image changes at about 3:09. The image prior to that has no lip. He has shown you a complete, start to finish, tip replacement of a Sniper tip. He is done at 3:07 and there is no lip. At 3:11 the image switches and he says "This is the way the Tiger Break Jump looks when it is done with the blade....." He is having you look at the tip. The lip at the shaft indicates that this cue shaft still has other work. He is using this image to show you what the tip looks like. He absolutely did not sand that ferrule down to create that lip. When you build a conventional cue shaft, you install the ferrule and cut it to size with the lathe before you finish sanding the shaft to finish size. This cue shaft is not done yet. He is showing you what the tip looks like, not the rest of it.

Watch it again and I think you will see what I am talking about. Maybe he could have done his video different, but he is not a bad cue repair guy.

It just isn't so!


Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com

Ok I watched it again and agree that is a different tip. He does not mention that he has more work to do on the shaft. If he is just talking about the tip then that would explain why he said "... and your done" @ 3:45.

I am not a cue repair man so I have a couple of questions.

1) If you were working on a shaft would you do the tip first and then work the shaft down to that size or would you do the shaft first and size the ferrule to the finished shaft. I would think the latter because it would be easier?

2) This is the first time that I have seen someone do a tip without wrapping or slipping a sleeve on the shaft to protect it from the jaws of the chuck holding the cue. (this one might be a knock, but I was asked to watch the video again and missed it the first time). I have done some lathe work and know what lathe jaws will do to a piece of wood.

Now you can tell me I don't have a clue in what I am talking about

JV

 

[macguy]

I'm kidding?

Do you know how long it would take to remove a half mm? 1 mm is .03975", so a half mm is .0198" or so. If you sand properly with 400 on the ferrule, you would do good to remove .001" with the time he spent on the ferrule. Sure, you could really squeeze down and speed that up, but that is not what he did, or what should be done. I have done thousands of tips for people for many years. If I gave a shaft back without removing the scratches from the ferrule, they would not be happy. You have to remove the scratches that come from chalk, poor use of a tip shaper, and many other things. If you are just replacing the tip only then they still will be upset if the ferrule has scratches on it. I always clean and seal the shaft with a tip replacement. It's just good customer service.

The image that shows the lip behind the ferrule is a different shaft and tip. Not only do they say that it is, it is obviously a different tip and ferrule. The first tip is a Sniper. I know this because I can recognize it, but also because they said so in the video. The second is obviously a different tip. It is brown, not blue.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com

400 is not a fine grit paper. I don't believe you should ever remove scratches with sand paper from a ferrule unless directed by the owner. You can clean it and the scratches will disappear and you can seal the ferrule so it will resist getting dirty again, but that is it. Same with the shaft. You don't clean the shaft unless they ask. Some players are very fussy about their shafts. I know one guy whose cue I used to work on, a US Open champion. He liked his shaft what most people would consider dirty. You can suggest cleaning the shaft but you should never tamper with someone shaft without their permission.
Yes, I know what that last line sounds like.

I don't mean to debate but I really believe that. I once cleaned a persons wrap without asking and they went nuts. That was years ago and I learned my lesson. Tim Scruggs told me he once cleaned a guys shafts and the guy swore the shafts were smaller. It was so bad Tim told me he had to make the guy two new shafts to get him off his back.

I have an old Rambow that I was getting a shaft made for years ago. It is pretty much worthless now. The guy replaced the joint for some reason. This idiot put a S.S. joint on the cue thinking he was up dating the cue. I still have it. If I posted a picture of it you would throw up if you are a cue lover.

 

[RBC]

Macguy and Johnny V

This whole thing started because a friend of mine who is a very good cue repairman, and his company were slandered for no reason.

I don't believe that was Johnny's intentions, but that is what came out.

I know that pool is a passionate hobby for most readers on here, but you have to keep in mind that some of us make our living at it, and this thread most likely would hurt Tiger's business, all because of a simple misunderstanding.

My only goal in replying to this thread was to support Tiger Products from an unintended wrong. Tiger is a leader in this industry and does many many great things for pool. Things that are good for everyone including myself and you guys too. That video was intended to show Tiger's customers that using a blade to trim the tip does not create excessive heat. Heat which causes layered tips to delaminate. It was not meant to say " Let me work on your shaft, this is how I do it". Tiger had a few customers who were having issues with their Sniper tips coming apart. Tiger put that out to help them.

Ok, I will now leave this thread alone. I don't want anyone to think that my intentions were negative. All I wanted to do was to stick up for Tiger in what looks to me like a misunderstanding.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com