"If you snooze..."

Tom In Cincy

Tom In Cincy

AKA SactownTom
Silver Member
In the other thread, (question for TDs about the 3 foul rule yada yada yada) this reminded me of the 8 ball question that doesn't have a clear cut rule, anywhere that I have seen.

In 8 ball, early in the game, player A is shooting at the stripes group. Player B takes a long time during his turn and ends up playing a very good safe. Player A comes to the table and takes a long time deciding what to do and then shoots a very tough SOLID group ball. Then misses at another shot.

Player B now comes to the table and starts to pocket balls in the Stripes group. Player B has made 3 stripes and then Player A realizes what has happened and calls a foul (shooting the wrong group of balls) on Player B.

What would you call as a tournament director?

I called that since the fouls had already happened and innings had already passed, the game is now in play. Player A has stripes and Player B has solids.. continue..

But, I didn't find anything in the rules (TE, BCA, APA, USPPA) books, that would cover this particular situation.

What would you call? and why?
 
Player b got called on it. Foul. Player a shoots.
Or everybody raises holy hell & you start game
over. Or......... What were we talking about?
 
I concur. Player A caught the foul by Player B, Player A's turn at the table. The opening rule covers that IMO..."Once a group of balls is legally pocketed, the shooter has that group of balls." Then "On a foul, incoming player has ball in hand." (if you're using the ball in hand rule) So according to these two rules, Player A gets his turn at the table and is shooting his balls (stripes).

Zim
 
Zim... Player A fouled also, Player B could have a legitiment protest.

You can't call a foul after the next shot has already been played, otherwise, Player A could wait until the last stripe is pocketed and then have ball in hand on the 8...

You snooze.. you lose your chance of calling FOUL.
 
Who ever calls the foul first, calls it!!! If Player B failed to notice or remember who was shooting what, but Player A did, good on him, bad on Player B. There's nothing to protest, they both forgot, but one remembered first and called it! Yes, he could have waited until he was on the last ball or even the 8 ball, but that's a risk he has to take. The fould has to be called just after a shot has occured, so if player A had to come to the table and was planning on missing on purpose and calling the foul after player B made more balls, then that is risky, because Player B could have called it on player A.
My original outcome still stands, IMO! He who catches first is the wiser!

Zim
 
Did this help? If I have misinterpreted the rules, please explain the best you can (anyone).

Thanks,
Zim
 
Zimmer,
I fail to see how either of these rules apply to the original example.

Both players played the wrong groups, neither called a foul when the fould was committed.

My ruling was to continue the game as is, no fouls.

I try to make decisions based on the rules and the best interest the tournament.

The players were very understanding about my reasoning. But, were upset that they both made the same mistake and didn't catch it when it happened.

I've yet to see anything relating to the 'you snooze, you lose' about calling fouls after there has been subsequent shots.

I'm still curious what other TDs would do in this situation and why?
 
player A can call the last foul. he lost the opportunity to call it on previous shots, but on the last shot he saw, as long as player B hasn't made another shot, he can call on the last one...

if B switched and shot his own ball before A noticed and called it, B is still good to go, but A is up a couple of balls...

right?
 
I guess it would have to be taken game by game and would depend on the attitudes of both of the players.

I wasn't saying either of us was wright or wrong. The two rules I listed can be interprited loosly. You made a good call IMO! I or any of the other TD's were there, good call!!!

Zim
 
player a has ball in hand, it is in apa rules somewhere, I don't have them handy, I used to be captain and read the rules thoroughly. a similar situation happened in my other league , player b ran to almost the 8 ball when player a realized and called foul
 
By APA rule, player A has ball in hand. He's not required to call the foul at any special time, excepting it has to be before player B realizes the mistake and contacts his proper OB. Although unsportsmanlike, player A can allow player B to run the rest of the balls out for him.

One interesting thing about the APA rule, though - if the fouling player finishes the wrong category and legally contacts the 8-ball, it's no longer a foul. They don't say anything about whether you win for pocketing that 8-ball, though. :)
 
I'm not a TD and have never been one. Seems to me, from a player's perspective, I would rather the game be restarted whether I'm player A or B. It just seems like the fairest thing to do. Can't the TD simply say that it's my tournament, my rules?

There was a guy in Sacramento by the name of Terry Stonier, God rest is soul, and he ran great tournaments! What everyone liked about him was that he was fair and he didn't tolerate any crap. He didn't run it out of a rule book either.

I got disgusted with the bar leagues because many of the players were sticklers for the rules. They'd get to the point of rediculousness. They'd take a win any way they could get it even if they had to invoke some obscure rule that might take 30 m;inutes to find in the rule book. I can't stand that kind of behavior!! I don't want to win a match unless I deserve to win. How do you feel good about a win that only came about by some stupid rule? BTW, I didn't get out of the leagues because I didn't do well in them, our team terrorized everyone! I just couldn't stomach that prevailing attitude of winning no matter how you have to do it.
 
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