I'm So Sick of 9-Ball

[DaveK]

I feel like a drug addict when it comes to 9-ball...first of all I'm bored to death going around the table in quick circles day after day with somebody racking every couple of minutes, and it's made me lose my skills in other games. But it's an habit that I've got to break. Having seen the different threads on straight recently have refueled my interest in the game, even though you can't find anyone to play straight, but I want to go back to my roots of how I learned to play. Unfortunately, I can't play for shit any more and it's really disgusting. I can't spot patterns like I used to...I'm not planning ahead properly...and I'm sure as hell not leaving myself with the proper angles on many balls, especially the last one to break the racks open.

It's going to take time so the first thing I wanted to do was just get back in tune to where I can spot patterns and plan ahead. I'll get back into angles for breaking the rack in due time along with the strategizing. So I pulled out this Q-Skill Challenge that Allen Hopkins came up with that's kind of an off-shoot to Equal Offense or Fargo. It also gives you a way to rate or rank yourself. So here are the rules:

1. Rack fifteen balls on the Foot Spot, in any order, and place the cue ball ON the Head Spot. Break the balls. If you miscue or miss the cue ball completely, it is a foul. Re-Rack, break again and subtract one from your score. If you miscue and contact the rack, you may choose to continue shooting, leaving the balls where they lie and not take a foul.

2. If you scratch on the break, it is a minus 1, unless the cue ball goes off the table, then it is a minus 2. After a scratch on the break, you may place the cue ball on either the Head Spot of Foot Spot and shoot any ball on the table, or place the cue ball anywhere behind the Head String and shoot any ball above the Head String. On the break, if you scratch or the cue ball goes off the table, all balls made on the break stay down but do not count as points. If you do not scratch on the break, then all balls made on the break count as one point each.

3. After the break, if you do not have a shot or do not like the shot you have, you may choose one of three options. (a) Place the cue ball anywhere behind the Head String and shoot any ball above the Head String. (b) Place the cue ball on either the Head Spot or the Foot Spot and shoot any ball.
(c) Place the rack over the cue ball (where it lies) and move the cue ball anywhere inside the rack and shoot any ball. All of the options noted above are a penalty and incur a minus 1.

4. After the break, whether you made a ball or not, proceed to shoot, calling each shot. Try to run the table, shoting the ball in any order UNTIL THERE ARE FIVE BALLS REMAINING. If you do pocket ten balls, then the last five balls must be shot IN ROTATION (in numerical order starting with the lowest number ball). If you MISS A SHOT, the rack is OVER. There are no second chances or mulligans! The first ten balls score 1 point each, and the last five balls score 2 points each. On each rack you can score a MAXIMUM of 20 points.

5. When there are six balls on the table and you pocket two or more balls in one shot, they all stay down and are each worth 1 point. Shoot the remaining balls in rotation, in which each ball is worth 2 points each.

6. Ten racks comprise a session. In one session you can score a maximum of 200 points. The score from TEN SESSIONS (100 racks) determines your Official Rating. The highest possible Official Rating is a perfect score of 2000 points.

Here is the Rating System:

0-300 - Recreational Player
301-600 - Intermediate Player
601-900 - Advanced Player
901-1200- Developing Pro
1201-1600 - Semi-Pro
1601-1800 - Pro
1801-2000 - Touring Pro

You'll have to keep a running scorecard of each game and each session (10 games) for 10 sessions (100 games)

I feel like I have a lonnnnggg way to go yet because I've only been able to get into the mid-high range of Semi-Pro. I'm still making stupid ass mistakes and not planning properly on those last five balls, (along with just f*#king up on some easy shots within the first 10 to bring my game scores down. Besides this Rating System, I'd like to see DeadAim do it as well as some of you die hard better straight pool players and list your scores to give me something to shoot at. Give it a try, it's quite interesting, sometimes frustrating, and reveals your strengths and weaknesses. Remember...no mulligans and cheating.

OK turkeys, these are the DRIVERMAKERS rules, and this is the BUD Bowl. I don't think anyone would enjoy the insults from beyond should the spirit of our dear departed BREAKUP hear of any chickens who don't sign up, so work off your stuffing at the green table and post up your scores here : http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=121750

Dave

 

[supergreenman]

OK turkeys, these are the DRIVERMAKERS rules, and this is the BUD Bowl. I don't think anyone would enjoy the insults from beyond should the spirit of our dear departed BREAKUP hear of any chickens who don't sign up, so work off your stuffing at the green table and post up your scores here : http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=121750

Dave

Dave I see you're taking the subtle approach to being a tournament director this year.

Just few questions:
- are you cleaning the hairballs off your table this year before or after you do your sessions?

- How come the Breakup Drivermaker tournament isn't listed in the fall leisure section of the City of Saskatoon web page?
- Will you be using your cue with the Beaver hide tip this year?
- If I ship you chalk via canoe on the North Saskatchwan River will you get it in time to complete the tournament this year? I know you had problems finishing in time last year.
- Are you or have you ever used the services of your cat to cheat in this tournament?

 

[DaveK]

Dave I see you're taking the subtle approach to being a tournament director this year.

You'll be pleased to know that I'm not in charge of anything other than posting snide comments in some worthy (and some not-so-worthy) threads. This one is my favorite :

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=33527

Just few questions:
- are you cleaning the hairballs off your table this year before or after you do your sessions?

Before, after, and during .... just call me Johnny.

- How come the Breakup Drivermaker tournament isn't listed in the fall leisure section of the City of Saskatoon web page?

An oversight I'm sure.

- Will you be using your cue with the Beaver hide tip this year?

<snicker snicker> SGM said "Beaver".

- If I ship you chalk via canoe on the North Saskatchwan River will you get it in time to complete the tournament this year? I know you had problems finishing in time last year.

Those thieves in North Battleford notwithstanding, no. I'll finish this year for sure :thumbup:

- Are you or have you ever used the services of your cat to cheat in this tournament?

Hey, GREAT video ... I thought I saw my wife in the mall shot My cats know to stay away when I play ... it's late at night that they get to enjoy the green felt ... they will make nice mittens some day.

Dave

 

[ragoo1]

There has been a guy going around teaching a similar but easier game. It is like straight without leaving the last ball for the break. You break and shoot all 15 balls in any order for a max of 15 pts per rack. If you scratch it is minus 1 pt and you only get 14 pts if you run all 15 balls. All balls made on the breeak stay down. Any foul or miss is end of game and you only get pts for the balls that were made. I believe he said that Jason Smidt has been averaging between 136-145 on a 9 foot table in 10 racks.

He has a website and wants to start a pool league.

 

[hfelsh]

I posted this in the "other" thread linked above, but thought I'd ask it here as well.

4. After the break, whether you made a ball or not, proceed to shoot, calling each shot. Try to run the table, shoting the ball in any order UNTIL THERE ARE FIVE BALLS REMAINING. If you do pocket ten balls, then the last five balls must be shot IN ROTATION (in numerical order starting with the lowest number ball). If you MISS A SHOT, the rack is OVER. There are no second chances or mulligans! The first ten balls score 1 point each, and the last five balls score 2 points each. On each rack you can score a MAXIMUM of 20 points.

5. When there are six balls on the table and you pocket two or more balls in one shot, they all stay down and are each worth 1 point. Shoot the remaining balls in rotation, in which each ball is worth 2 points each.

I hate to bump an old(er) thread, but I'm wanting to use this "Q Skill Challenge" as a practice. However, I noticed a discrepency in the scoring methods; particularly regarding the 10th shot, and need clarification on two things.

1. Per rule #4, you must call each shot. What happens if you call a shot, pocket the called shot, but also drop *another* ball in a different pocket, without calling it? Do you spot the ball? Or does it too count as 1 point? Rule #5 seems to address this, but is ambiguous.

If the ball does not count as a point, does it stay down (meaning I can't score the maximum 20 points per rack), or does it get spotted?

2. Per rule #5, on the 10th shot, if you drop TWO (or more) balls, each is worth only 1 point. That means you cannot score the maximum of 20 points should you run the entire rack. For each additional ball you pocket on tha 10th shot, you end up losing (or rather, failing to gain) one point, albeit unintentionally.

Example: break, drop two balls, ergo your starting score is 2 points. Then pocket seven more balls (each worth one point), so your running score is 9. On the 10th shot, drop two balls (assuming I called BOTH shots, so regardless of my first question, they would count), and my score would be 11 points; then continue shooting per rule #5, with each ball being worth 2 points, and should I drop the remaining four balls (thereby running the entire rack), my total score would be 19, not a perfect 20, which would have been my score had I not pocketed two balls on the 10th shot.

Not that I run racks regularly, but for the rules and scoring sake, if someone runs the entire rack but dropped two (or more) balls on the 10th shot, should they simply award themselves 20 points (which would have been the score had each ball been pocketed individually), or should they take only the score they made?

Hope those two questions make sense. :embarrassed2:

 

[Neil]

.............

 

[Dave Nelson]

I have it printed and will try it soon. I hope I do better than I did on the previous one.

Dave Nelson

 

[DaveK]

...I hate to bump an old(er) thread,

Do not worry, bump away my friend :thumbup:

...
but I'm wanting to use this "Q Skill Challenge" as a practice. However, I noticed a discrepency in the scoring methods; particularly regarding the 10th shot, and need clarification on two things.

1. Per rule #4, you must call each shot. What happens if you call a shot, pocket the called shot, but also drop *another* ball in a different pocket, without calling it? Do you spot the ball? Or does it too count as 1 point? Rule #5 seems to address this, but is ambiguous.

If the ball does not count as a point, does it stay down (meaning I can't score the maximum 20 points per rack), or does it get spotted?

2. Per rule #5, on the 10th shot, if you drop TWO (or more) balls, each is worth only 1 point. That means you cannot score the maximum of 20 points should you run the entire rack. For each additional ball you pocket on tha 10th shot, you end up losing (or rather, failing to gain) one point, albeit unintentionally.

Example: break, drop two balls, ergo your starting score is 2 points. Then pocket seven more balls (each worth one point), so your running score is 9. On the 10th shot, drop two balls (assuming I called BOTH shots, so regardless of my first question, they would count), and my score would be 11 points; then continue shooting per rule #5, with each ball being worth 2 points, and should I drop the remaining four balls (thereby running the entire rack), my total score would be 19, not a perfect 20, which would have been my score had I not pocketed two balls on the 10th shot.

Not that I run racks regularly, but for the rules and scoring sake, if someone runs the entire rack but dropped two (or more) balls on the 10th shot, should they simply award themselves 20 points (which would have been the score had each ball been pocketed individually), or should they take only the score they made?

Hope those two questions make sense. :embarrassed2:

I think the general rule would be that any EXTRA ball pocketed would count the same value as the called ball. The issue of knocking in one of the last 5 when you are pocketing the 10th ball (last one worth 1) is a bit of a anomoly, and does only score 19 if you finish the clearance, but it is reasonable imo. The only was to score 2 on that extra ball would be if that extra ball was the lowest numbered of the last 5 (otherwise it is pocketed out of order), but I still think it should be scored the same as the designated/called ball. I'll bet my explanation to your reasonable makes very little sense, sorry.

Dave

 

[DaveK]

I didn't make the rules, and it didn't come up for me. But,if it had, this is how I would have treated it. It's call pocket, so, if I make two in one shot, I have to call the first ball only. The second is worth one point also. Now, if I'm down to the five two pointers and one one pointer, they are both worth one point on a double shot, unless I call them both. If I call two balls in one shot, and only make one, it's a miss.

That second called ball would also have to be the lowest numbered out of the last 5, otherwise it is pocketed out of turn and the inning is over. That's the way I see it anyway. Otherwise what you say makes perfect sense. Having said that, I still think that any extra ball should be scored at the same value as the one designated ball, so you want to be careful not to score 19 when a 20 is in sight.

Dave

 

[Neil]

................

 

[supergreenman]

That second called ball would also have to be the lowest numbered out of the last 5, otherwise it is pocketed out of turn and the inning is over. That's the way I see it anyway. Otherwise what you say makes perfect sense. Having said that, I still think that any extra ball should be scored at the same value as the one designated ball, so you want to be careful not to score 19 when a 20 is in sight.

Dave

I do not agree, I see making a second ball on a legal shot as a bonus just like in any other contemporary cue sport. A player shouldn't be punished for executing a legal shot.

 

[Cuebacca]

I do not agree, I see making a second ball on a legal shot as a bonus just like in any other contemporary cue sport. A player shouldn't be punished for executing a legal shot.

I agree with your disagreement. I would also prefer to be allowed to shoot combos during the rotation section as long as you hit the lowest ball first.

 

[supergreenman]

I agree with your disagreement. I would also prefer to be allowed to shoot combos during the rotation section as long as you hit the lowest ball first.

Yes, but really with proper table management at the beginning of the game you really shouldn't have too.

 

[Cuebacca]

Yes, but really with proper table management at the beginning of the game you really shouldn't have too.

For sure, you are correct. It would be nice to have the option though, IMO.

 

[hfelsh]

Thanks for the answers, but it really hasn't answered my questions. :frown: Well, it sorta did.

OK, let me ask this: I'm on shot #5. I call it in the corner pocket, and *make* it (thus it's legal, and I score +1), BUT, after pocketing the ball, the cue comes off the rail, hits another ball, and causes that ball to go into the side pocket. Do I a) get another +1, and continue shooting, b) spot the "illegally pocketed" ball, and continue shooting (no point +/-), c) leave the ball pocketed but not receive any point +/-, or d) is the rack over?

Regarding multiple balls on the 10th shot, I see what you mean, but I kinda feel like it's a penalty, if the player is making a valid combo and pocketing both balls, especially if the player is combo'ing the what-would-be-the-lowest-object-ball next, so it *should* count for the full 2 points IMO. To not do let it count as the full point value seems to discourage combo shots, which in fact should be encouraged IF they can be made IMHO.

 

[DaveK]

I do not agree, I see making a second ball on a legal shot as a bonus just like in any other contemporary cue sport. A player shouldn't be punished for executing a legal shot.

It's rule #5. The issue is the change in value of the balls, and when you pot the extra ball. I tend to agree with your comment about not being punished for a legal shot. On the other hand, in the context of testing yourself, you should not add bonus points for luck.

Dave

PS - a) is the answer hfelsh

 

[Neil]

.................

 

[DaveK]

I had an epiphany, or maybe it was a PM on the lighter side, either way, here are the rulings from the horses ass, er, mouth :

Combos can be used in the first 10 balls with a call shot. If 2 balls go in, both either have to be called or you only get 1 point for the called ball and NONE for the lucked in uncalled ball.

NO COMBOS ARE ALLOWED IN THE LAST FIVE WORTH 2 POINTS. THE LOWEST BALL ON THE TABLE HAS TO BE HIT, CALLED, AND POCKETED OR THE RACK IS OVER. I SPECIFICALLY ASKED ALLEN HOPKINS THIS QUESTION OVER THE PHONE.

It's part of what makes the last 5 more difficult to score because you have to do pre-planning BEFORE you even figure out what the last 5 will be and DURING the last 5 to get your position.

The Lord Hath Spoken

Thanks Bill.

Dave

 

[Cuebacca]

Where do you see that you can't???

Dave posted the specific rule right after your post. (Thanks, Dave.) No combos allowed during the rotation stage.

 

[hfelsh]

OK, let me ask this: I'm on shot #5. I call it in the corner pocket, and *make* it (thus it's legal, and I score +1), BUT, after pocketing the ball, the cue comes off the rail, hits another ball, and causes that ball to go into the side pocket. Do I a) get another +1, and continue shooting, b) spot the "illegally pocketed" ball, and continue shooting (no point +/-), c) leave the ball pocketed but not receive any point +/-, or d) is the rack over?

PS - a) is the answer hfelsh

I had an epiphany, or maybe it was a PM on the lighter side, either way, here are the rulings from the horses ass, er, mouth :

Combos can be used in the first 10 balls with a call shot. If 2 balls go in, both either have to be called or you only get 1 point for the called ball and NONE for the lucked in uncalled ball.

NO COMBOS ARE ALLOWED IN THE LAST FIVE WORTH 2 POINTS. THE LOWEST BALL ON THE TABLE HAS TO BE HIT, CALLED, AND POCKETED OR THE RACK IS OVER. I SPECIFICALLY ASKED ALLEN HOPKINS THIS QUESTION OVER THE PHONE.

It's part of what makes the last 5 more difficult to score because you have to do pre-planning BEFORE you even figure out what the last 5 will be and DURING the last 5 to get your position.

The Lord Hath Spoken

Dave

Thanks Dave. I'm quoting myself only for clarity's sake, as there seems to be a discrepency between your first answer to me, and your last post.

So, according to your last post, the uncalled secondary ball pocketed does NOT incur a +1, but stays down, thereby meaning no perfect 20 can be achieved. That makes sense, and isn't really a "penalty", IMO; since the shooter didn't play the cue ball correctly (and thus contacted another ball, unintentionally dropping it), they aren't being rewarded for luck.

However, I do disagree about the "no combos on the final 5".

Combo shots are perfectly valid shots, and since the last 5 are being shot in rotation, ala 9-ball rules, IMO as long as the lowest ball is contacted first, it should be a valid shot. I see why it's not, but I don't necessarily agree with it.