Improving Stroke Timing

nibrobus

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What do you think is the best way to improve your stroke "timing"? I've been trying to improve my stroke and I've found that I shoot pretty straight (meaning no unwanted english) but I feel like I strike the ball harder than necessary to get good follow/draw. I watch the pros and it seems like their stroke speed is a lot slower than what you would think is needed to generate a ton of spin. Granted most of the time they're playing in favorable conditions, but I still feel like I could use better timing as I think it will improve my accuracy. Thanks for the help!
 
What kind of cloth and balls are you using?

My friend and I bought our tables at the same time a few years ago. He just had his recovered with Simonis and bought a brand new set of centennial balls and I must say that the difference in the ability to draw was pretty dramatic.

Not to say that stroke, timing and everything else doesn't matter, it certainly does but I asked him to bring his pool balls overhere one night and it has me wanting a new set at the moment, or at least a new cue ball. The cloth however seemed to have the biggest effect, mine just has standard championship titan on it at the moment and the playability is so tremendously different.
 
GTeye said:
What kind of cloth and balls are you using?

My friend and I bought our tables at the same time a few years ago. He just had his recovered with Simonis and bought a brand new set of centennial balls and I must say that the difference in the ability to draw was pretty dramatic.

Not to say that stroke, timing and everything else doesn't matter, it certainly does but I asked him to bring his pool balls overhere one night and it has me wanting a new set at the moment, or at least a new cue ball. The cloth however seemed to have the biggest effect, mine just has standard championship titan on it at the moment and the playability is so tremendously different.

why not just polish your cue ball? Aramith has their own special polish for balls, and most billiard stores have the machines that will clean your balls for you.

plus, more than one leading professional/teacher has told me that simple car wax on the cue ball will do the trick as well as any polish.

DCP
 
These are some good observations. I learned the same watching the pros shoot at the Worlds 14.1.

Some additional tips are to hit the ball a little bit higher/lower than you think you are able to without miscuing, keep the cue level, and most of all follow through the cue ball on these types of shots.
 
Hold the cue at the balance point, closer to the joint than you're accustomed. Stroke through the ball with an even speed and short backstroke. Focus on the contact and steering the OB to the heart of the pocket. Visualize the minimum spin it takes to get your CB to roll to the spot it needs to go.
 
GTeye said:
What kind of cloth and balls are you using?

My friend and I bought our tables at the same time a few years ago. He just had his recovered with Simonis and bought a brand new set of centennial balls and I must say that the difference in the ability to draw was pretty dramatic.

Not to say that stroke, timing and everything else doesn't matter, it certainly does but I asked him to bring his pool balls overhere one night and it has me wanting a new set at the moment, or at least a new cue ball. The cloth however seemed to have the biggest effect, mine just has standard championship titan on it at the moment and the playability is so tremendously different.

I typically play at my local pool hall that doesn't have air conditioning and the tables are dirty every day (even though they're brushed daily). The balls are Centennials (spelling?) that don't get cleaned very often and the cloth is Simonis (about 8 -10 months old). The heatwave we've been having hasn't helped either, and the place gets sticky if the room is full. I can get the cue ball to draw back to my approximate starting spot if the object ball is 7 - 8 ft. away, but I got to pound it and the ball kinda "creeps" back. I have friend that has a great stroke and he gets a ton of draw/follow with what seems like less stroke speed with the same conditions.
 
Like everyone has said, having a slick cueball and cloth does wonders. You can't get more speed/spin on the ball without increasing cue speed. Besides the equipment, maybe the pro's speeds appear to be less because of their smooth strokes.

To increase cue speed, aside from sheer muscle, "accelerating through the cueball" helps, or at least avoid decelerating. Make sure your forearm is close to vertical as the tip is about to strike the cueball, rather than past vertical.

If you have room at the end of your cue and want to experiment, try moving your grip hand back even further so that your forearm doesn't yet reach vertical at contact. This is one way of helping you to "accelerate through". It is controversial though, and you do waste a little bit of energy. I don't think any BCA instructor would recommend it but it does get you more cue speed.

The point here is that for smoothness, you want to stretch the acceleration period out. Doing so results in either more speed, or less force required to get the same speed. It also has the side benefit of making the cue's speed less sensitive to variations in stroke timing.

Jim
 
As others mentioned, a fast cloth and clean balls, as most tournies are played under makes it surprisingly easy to make some power shots with half the effort.

That said, a good stroker can produce significantly higher cue speeds with less effort via efficient timing.

But what is timing?

It's a rather empty word that actually has a better descriptive base via terms of bio-mechanics. When you see a 180lb shot putter throw 50 feet, or a 120lb guy break the balls at 30mph they are utilizing bio-mechanical methods.

A muscle can contract (produce force) up to several times its normal amount when under isometric or eccentric phases of contractions. So trying to push all contributing muscles in the same direction at the same time is highly inefficient in producing force.

So what timing really is, is allowing certain muscles to contract before others, putting the next muscle in line to contract under tension (eccentric contraction). When this is timed right, the net force exerted to the cue, with apparently little effort can be significantly higher.

Most players achieve this intuitively after years od practice. The muscles learn to fire in the right order to make a smooth but increasingly accellerating shot.

Try flicking a coin with your thumb without it being locked under another finger first. You'll be lucky to flick it 3 inches high. Then flick as usual, (under isometric contraction from being held back by the other finger), the thumb expodes through with much greater power, sending the coing several feet into the air.

Get these type of isometric and eccentric contractions working in comination at the various points in the shoulder, elbow and wrist, via the pecs, frontal delts, lats, biceps, forearm and finger muscles and you'll increase power significantly with the appearance of minimal effort.

Colin
 
Stroke

I can't believe you asked about stroke and everyone in here is telling you to try different balls, or cleaner balls, or a different cloth.

Here is the short of it. If you want your stroke to be the same throughout every shot then you have to do the same thing on every shot!!!!

Therefore chaulk up, do the same amount of warm up strokes and hit the cue ball at about the same speed every time.

Now I know there are different shots that you want to stroke it with less speed or with more speed, but you asked why it looks like the pros use a lot less speed than you do.

Yes different cloths, and different balls, and clean balls all affect speed.

Here is a good way to determine how the cloth plays compaired to your stoke.

Go to the table that you always play on and place the cue ball on the spot for the rack. Then stroke the cue ball with your normal stroke to the other end of the table.

It should hit the far rail, come back to you and hit the rail, and when it stops it should be really close to the middle of the table. If you do that on the normal table you play on then you have found a pretty good stroke speed.

Now when you move to a different table and the cloth and balls are a bit different you can do the same thing on that table to decide how much to increase or decrease your stroke.

It takes practice, but it works. You will also find that to get the cue ball in the middle of the table doesn't take a whole hell of a lot of power.

I know this is only one factor that has improved my game. If you got any questions, then let me know.

Oh, and if your stoke is consistent with a good follow through, then the draw shot, and the follow shots will come natrually. It's hard to tell you how to stroke the ball online, but if you want to really improve find yourself a school or an instructor.
 
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nibrobus said:
What do you think is the best way to improve your stroke "timing"? I've been trying to improve my stroke and I've found that I shoot pretty straight (meaning no unwanted english) but I feel like I strike the ball harder than necessary to get good follow/draw. I watch the pros and it seems like their stroke speed is a lot slower than what you would think is needed to generate a ton of spin. Granted most of the time they're playing in favorable conditions, but I still feel like I could use better timing as I think it will improve my accuracy. Thanks for the help!



This is an exercie that may help in your effort to shoot softer but get more English---specifically draw.
1. Shoot the One ball with draw and try to have the cue ball come back to the right short rail before the One ball gets back to the same rail. You are not trying to make the One ball, just trying to get it to come straight back. You are racing the cue ball and the One ball.
2. Next shoot the Three ball the same way. The cue ball should be one diamond away from the Three ball. After you can do this---
3. Try it with the Five ball.

This should really help you shoot soft with more English. Let me know how it works out!!!
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nibrobus said:
What do you think is the best way to improve your stroke "timing"? I've been trying to improve my stroke and I've found that I shoot pretty straight (meaning no unwanted english) but I feel like I strike the ball harder than necessary to get good follow/draw. I watch the pros and it seems like their stroke speed is a lot slower than what you would think is needed to generate a ton of spin. Granted most of the time they're playing in favorable conditions, but I still feel like I could use better timing as I think it will improve my accuracy. Thanks for the help!

If you are having problems with drawing the ball, then its your stroke, not likely the table, balls, etc.. You need someone, a BCA instructor preferably, to look at what you are doing and help you develope drills to correct it. I have been through this same, and many other, problem. For me, and I understand many people, 1. My cue wasn't level enough and 2. I wasn't cueing where I thought I was. Those were just the starting points.

As Colin pointed out, your muscles have to be trained. Try slowing down your backswing and pausing slightly before going forward. Don't drop your elbow or shoulder. Your cue tip should contact the table as you follow through about 4-6 inches. As your hand passes the elbow it starts rising, this makes the tip of the cue go down as your bridge is holding the shaft. If this isn't happening for you, you need to figure out what to correct. Perhaps a video would help.

Just a little guidance/help, been there and done that. Worked for me.

Mike
 
nibrobus said:
What do you think is the best way to improve your stroke "timing"? I've been trying to improve my stroke and I've found that I shoot pretty straight (meaning no unwanted english) but I feel like I strike the ball harder than necessary to get good follow/draw. I watch the pros and it seems like their stroke speed is a lot slower than what you would think is needed to generate a ton of spin. Granted most of the time they're playing in favorable conditions, but I still feel like I could use better timing as I think it will improve my accuracy. Thanks for the help!
I know this will sound like a lame broken record endorsement, but for stroke timing, I'd see a BCA Instructor, especially the ones that teach analytical speed control, Set Pause Finish Freeze, and eye patterns. The eye patterns are what has helped me rein in my firmer (firmer/harder than normal) shots.


Fred
 
nibrobus said:
What do you think is the best way to improve your stroke "timing"? I've been trying to improve my stroke and I've found that I shoot pretty straight (meaning no unwanted english) but I feel like I strike the ball harder than necessary to get good follow/draw. I watch the pros and it seems like their stroke speed is a lot slower than what you would think is needed to generate a ton of spin. Granted most of the time they're playing in favorable conditions, but I still feel like I could use better timing as I think it will improve my accuracy. Thanks for the help!

Ok, there is not much else I can add here as there are already some great responses.

However if you feel you need to hit the cue ball too hard to get good follow/draw, you might need to lengthen your follow through. Of course I have never seen you play, but often times if a player isn't getting enough spin it is because they are poking rather than stroking.
 
This may sound stupid, but I think it works.

Play some practice racks and try and be as quiet as possible. Act like someone is in the next room sleeping.

I am not saying slow roll everything...I am saying hit the ball with just enough pace so the OB holds its line but does not hit the back of the pocket.

If the balls are making a banging noise off the back of the pocket, your hitting it too hard.....(and you will wake the person sleeping)

Also forces you to learn to play better angles so you don't have to juice the CB....(quiet smooth cliks of the balls and little pocket entry noise)
 
Cornerman said:
I know this will sound like a lame broken record endorsement, but for stroke timing, I'd see a BCA Instructor, especially the ones that teach analytical speed control, Set Pause Finish Freeze, and eye patterns. The eye patterns are what has helped me rein in my firmer (firmer/harder than normal) shots.


Fred


Nibrobus...You have the info you need, and you've heard it from several posters here. Pool school is only a few weeks away. :D Everything you are asking, and much more, will be answered in those three days. You'll come away with a whole new perspective, and a complete set of "tools" to help you learn to play the way you want to! See you soon!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
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