In terms of appeal, what does Golf have

[okinawa77]

What pool needs is a jump start

Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan........

I think if Pool had a player that pulls magical-like moves, and enough people talk about it, then the sport of pool will grow.

I was never interested in golf until Tiger came along.
I was never interested in basketball until Jordan came along.

Have you noticed how popular the pool trick shot competitions have become?

I think if a risk taking pool player comes along, and goes for the 2'fer shots, opts for masse/jumps, and 3 or more rail kicks/banks.....and actually wins tournaments with that style of play....then people will think he or she is a real bad ass. And interest will spawn.

The only time I watch Golf is when Tiger is playing...and he is the only one I'll watch. It amazes me how he gets stuck in a crappy spot, and hits an awesome shot that puts him back on track for the win.

I think it's the miraculous shots that draw people in. It is inspiring, and becomes contagious. And then people aspire to emulate the miraculous-ism. IMO, that is what jump starts a sport's popularity.

 

[Bluesteel]

What does golf have...

IMAGE and ORGANIZATION

1. Professional golf has 4 major organizations...PGA, European PGA, LPGA, and European LPGA.

2. Golf also has only 2 major ruling bodies, USGA and R & A Golf Club

There are millions of dollars donated to charities worldwide by any and all of these organizations. It is a no brainer to any corporation wishing to sponsor n event...you give to the ones that give back. And when it comes to giving back, here is some information from the PGA Tour website...and it is spelled BILLION.

Taken from PGATOUR.COM...


The PGA TOUR's Drive to a Billion ended several months ahead of schedule during the week of the 2005 Chrysler Championship, Charles Schwab Cup Championship and Nationwide Tour Championship. The $1 billion raised since 1938 has allowed PGA TOUR, Champions Tour and Nationwide Tour events to help more than 2,000 charities and countless individuals around the world.

It is thanks to the collective efforts of many -- from tournaments to sponsors to players to volunteers, and most of all, to the fans -- that professional golf can touch millions of lives as the official sport of "Giving Back."


Is it any wonder why they have the kind of sponsor support that they do???!!!!!!!!

Mark

 

[trustyrusty]

that pool doesn't?

I'm with the poster who is angered by the discrepency in payouts to pro golfers vs. that of pro pool players, which can foster a skewed perspective that Gold is a much greater game than pool.

I like Golf, but I'm not an enthusiast, and I know many here are passionate about both Pool and Golf, so I'd like to ask what do you think Golf has that pool doesn't? There was a time when people would rather go get volunteer bypass surgery than watch Golf on TV. It was one of those sports more fun to play than watch. Now it has its own channel, good ratings, and has become a popular spectator sport, even before the arrival of Tiger.

Like I said in another thread, Pool used to mean something in this country. The Mosconi/Fats exhibition was the second highest rated sports program of the year. Great pool players were household names. There 20,000 payouts in the early 1900s, etc, etc.

I know all about the corporate atmosphere of Golf, which I think creates a certain kind of "wannabe" culture. Many times, I've seen golfers with the most expensive clubs, balls, clothing, who have a kind of affluent arrogance about them, but can't break 120 on their best day. For them, participating in Golf is a way to belong. It's not really about the game, but more about being apart of the Upper Class. This wannabe culture is a huge market and Golf has captured it. I found it amusing that last year's Masters was presented with limited commercials, which I believe was a result of these corporate big wigs sacrificing the advertising revenue so they can watch the tournament themselves without the annoyance of commercial after commercial. That's how important the game is to these types. I know it's a stretch, but kind of funny to consider. "Jones, I don't care about the lost adverstising dollars. Damn it, I want to see every minute of that tournament."

So what else? The beauty and uniqueness of the courses vs. the repetitive playing surface of a pool table? The drama of a Sunday finish? The affluent, elitist aura?

I'm going to reply to this before I even read any other replies....

first, the "wannabe" culture comment is laughable if you spend any time at all on here. Pool certainly has it's wannabe cultures too. The super-highroller wannabes. The type that laughed at a buddy of mine that wanted to put down a $100 on a match at the DCC last month. Or the type that laugh at anyone who would lower themselves to play a (GASP) production cue. Or, (last example on tis subject) the guys who make fun of beginning players -errrr BANGERS when they themselves have been only recently strung two whole racks in a row....

As for elitist aura....well, I'd say a good majority of golfers play on munis(municiple - public courses). The number of regular good golfers that belong to ultra pricey country clubs is very low (at least lower than you probably think, unless they are professional golfers already). Sure, your typical CEO might belong to a super exclusive club, but he probably can't break 100 playing "real" golf (by the rules) anyway. And concerning the Masters and limited commercial breaks....the wholes days broadcast might be brought to you by GM, and they get the only commercials for that day - and believe me, THEY PAY FOR IT!!! It's probably the same revenue that Augusta National would get if they took a bunch of different companies advertising fees, but GM or whoever likes the idea of being the sole sponsor, and it also cuts back on broadcast interruptions...win, win.

You can find negative things about all sports, and their professional ranks. Golf happens to have less negatives than most. And most of the negatives in it are merely percieved too. Sergio Garcia hasn't been busted for trying to take pot on a plane, Ernie Els hasn't been accused of running a dog fighting ring, and VJ Singh hasn't been convicted of beating his wife. If these pros were trying to keep up with the Jones' in other pro sports, they'd better get on the ball.

BTW, I've mentioned this a million times on here - I'd much rather play either (pool or golf) than watch either.

 

[midnightpulp]

I'm going to reply to this before I even read any other replies....

first, the "wannabe" culture comment is laughable if you spend any time at all on here. Pool certainly has it's wannabe cultures too. The super-highroller wannabes. The type that laughed at a buddy of mine that wanted to put down a $100 on a match at the DCC last month. Or the type that laugh at anyone who would lower themselves to play a (GASP) production cue. Or, (last example on tis subject) the guys who make fun of beginning players -errrr BANGERS when they themselves have been only recently strung two whole racks in a row....

As for elitist aura....well, I'd say a good majority of golfers play on munis(municiple - public courses). The number of regular good golfers that belong to ultra pricey country clubs is very low (at least lower than you probably think, unless they are professional golfers already). Sure, your typical CEO might belong to a super exclusive club, but he probably can't break 100 playing "real" golf (by the rules) anyway. And concerning the Masters and limited commercial breaks....the wholes days broadcast might be brought to you by GM, and they get the only commercials for that day - and believe me, THEY PAY FOR IT!!! It's probably the same revenue that Augusta National would get if they took a bunch of different companies advertising fees, but GM or whoever likes the idea of being the sole sponsor, and it also cuts back on broadcast interruptions...win, win.

You can find negative things about all sports, and their professional ranks. Golf happens to have less negatives than most. And most of the negatives in it are merely percieved too. Sergio Garcia hasn't been busted for trying to take pot on a plane, Ernie Els hasn't been accused of running a dog fighting ring, and VJ Singh hasn't been convicted of beating his wife. If these pros were trying to keep up with the Jones' in other pro sports, they'd better get on the ball.

BTW, I've mentioned this a million times on here - I'd much rather play either (pool or golf) than watch either.

Hey Rusty, I sense a little fire in your words. We're buddies, remember you recommended that McD to me? Still haven't pulled the trigger yet

Anyway, the wannabe culture is a good thing. It's what drives all forms of entertainment. When we watch Neo in the Matrix kicking ass, for those two hours we vicariously live through that character, we "want to be" him.

I'm aware of the wannabes in pool, but there are far more in golf. Seriously, pool needs more wannabes. I think another problem is that a wannabe might give up on the game too quickly. In Golf, you can have a lot of fun even if you can't break a 100. But in pool, when you constantly miss and can't put a run of 2 balls together, it's very frustrating. And then you have the Bangers, who are not even wannabes. The game is there simply as a distraction while they drink and socialize. They don't buy any kind of pool related products, watch the game, etc...

So it remains. A very small niche of people who will actually put money in the game.

 

[trustyrusty]

Hey Rusty, I sense a little fire in your words. We're buddies, remember you recommended that McD to me? Still haven't pulled the trigger yet

Anyway, the wannabe culture is a good thing. It's what drives all forms of entertainment. When we watch Neo in the Matrix kicking ass, for those two hours we vicariously live through that character, we "want to be" him.

I'm aware of the wannabes in pool, but there are far more in golf. Seriously, pool needs more wannabes. I think another problem is that a wannabe might give up on the game too quickly. In Golf, you can have a lot of fun even if you can't break a 100. But in pool, when you constantly miss and can't put a run of 2 balls together, it's very frustrating. And then you have the Bangers, who are not even wannabes. The game is there simply as a distraction while they drink and socialize. They don't buy any kind of pool related products, watch the game, etc...

So it remains. A very small niche of people who will actually put money in the game.

for some reason I get a bit defensive when golf is automatically referred to as elitist. I know it shouldn't bother me what someone thinks about a game/sport that they really don't know much about, but elitism and class envy are two things that make my skin crawl (especially when they are perceived, and not truly observed). I know a guy who is worth a gazillion dollars that is one of the nicest, most generous men I've ever met, and have heard others assume he's some arrogant snob elitist just because of where he lives or what he drives etc.

The wannabe term confounds me a bit...sorry, if someone is willing/trying to learn something - I don't consider them a wannabe. I am willing to help in anyway I can (especially by pointing to someone who knows better than I) to hep someone LEARN. I view wannabes as those who pretend to KNOW or BE something that they aren't or don't know. I couldn't care less about guys that spend $10,000 on clubs or a cue that they can't play a lick with.....that's just a bad financial decision in my mind

 

[midnightpulp]

for some reason I get a bit defensive when golf is automatically referred to as elitist. I know it shouldn't bother me what someone thinks about a game/sport that they really don't know much about, but elitism and class envy are two things that make my skin crawl (especially when they are perceived, and not truly observed). I know a guy who is worth a gazillion dollars that is one of the nicest, most generous men I've ever met, and have heard others assume he's some arrogant snob elitist just because of where he lives or what he drives etc.

The wannabe term confounds me a bit...sorry, if someone is willing/trying to learn something - I don't consider them a wannabe. I am willing to help in anyway I can (especially by pointing to someone who knows better than I) to hep someone LEARN. I view wannabes as those who pretend to KNOW or BE something that they aren't or don't know. I couldn't care less about guys that spend $10,000 on clubs or a cue that they can't play a lick with.....that's just a bad financial decision in my mind

I don't think Golf is as an elitist game. You can have a great 4 hour experience on a Public Course for a small price, but like anything, there are parts of its culture that are elitist, arguably more so than any other major sport. Your friend aside, there are rich people who like to flaunt their wealth for the purpose of generating envy, and some of this mentality is perceived in Golf, whether true or not. But such a mentality is also human nature, which is driven by our competitive nature. Part of us want to be better, richer, more intelligent, attractive, than the next person. Why does a rich person have to buy a big house in the wealthiest neighborhood? Why drive a Bentley when you can drive a Caddy? This rich person can be generous, charitable, down-to-earth, but in some form he wants to separate himself from the "common" world.


There's elitist people everywhere. I used to be one. When I first got into film, I was a "film snob." I'd prop myself up in my own mind cause I was "smart" enough to watch foreign films while the "dumb" masses watched Hollywood junk. It stems from insecurity, but also from that instinct I outlined above.

As for the def. of wannabe, my def. is someone who desires to reach the higher levels of any given pursuit. It's a term loaded with negativity, so I'll change it to "aspiring."

 

[jimmy-leggs]

Its because its outdoors.. and I agree, Billiards for me is a WINTER activity when I cant get outside and enjoy nature..

I have played golf, fairly well, I might add, I like being able to "SPIN" the golf ball, but I can do that with a bowling ball too.. Same with tennis, I prefere Billiards because I can SPIN the balls, in a more pronounced and dramatic fashion.. this was my hook...

SPINDOKTOR

You have got too much SPINNING going on in your life.lol

 

[stick8]

golf

Golf and NASCAR are the same for me on TV. I'll wait for the highlights because it's like watching paint dry.

Yes I'm biased

give odd you dont golf!! know you dont drive race car!! what do you do other than pool??? as for me i enjoy pool and golf!! and can watch racing granted not my favorite. but you sound like you would sleep in T*t bar!!!

 

[BRKNRUN]

for some reason I get a bit defensive when golf is automatically referred to as elitist. I know it shouldn't bother me what someone thinks about a game/sport that they really don't know much about, but elitism and class envy are two things that make my skin crawl (especially when they are perceived, and not truly observed). I know a guy who is worth a gazillion dollars that is one of the nicest, most generous men I've ever met, and have heard others assume he's some arrogant snob elitist just because of where he lives or what he drives etc.

The wannabe term confounds me a bit...sorry, if someone is willing/trying to learn something - I don't consider them a wannabe. I am willing to help in anyway I can (especially by pointing to someone who knows better than I) to hep someone LEARN. I view wannabes as those who pretend to KNOW or BE something that they aren't or don't know. I couldn't care less about guys that spend $10,000 on clubs or a cue that they can't play a lick with.....that's just a bad financial decision in my mind

The elitist comment will probably always be associated with Golf...Just as the term Hustler will probably always be associated with Pool

True, Golf has changed drastically since the days of Jack and Arne but that is the stigma of Golf....The days when guys like Lee & Chi Chi had to sneak on the golf course becuase they were not allowed to play....The days of the caddy shack and "members only".

Since John Daly and Tiger came around, now there is much more of a blue collar following of Golf...The game has changed and the culture of Golf has changed.......be that elitist stigma still has its pockets of elitist resistance....(AKA: Agusta National)

In recent days......quite a few golf courses are going away from the PGA of America bred management and are instead looking at Hospitality Management that were not previously golf related.

I am sure I will be corrected if wrong, but isn't pool just not real popular in USA?.....I was under the impression that Pool in the UK and PHI is very poplualar? ...

Soccer (AKA: futbol) is one of the most popular sports in the world...yet can't get off the ground in the USA.....why is that???

The problem (as I see it) is that pool never goes through a complete growth cycle....It starts and then someone comes along and divides that talent pool and crashes both systems.......The players can't become household names without a consistent stage to perform on....and without being household names...they can't put the bodies in the seats to generated interest from sponsorships....

There needs to be a growth cycle (just like the other organized sports)...if it started today...perhaps in 10-20 years there would be a consitent organized stage for players to earn over 100k per year.

 

[memikey]

......I found it amusing that last year's Masters was presented with limited commercials, which I believe was a result of these corporate big wigs sacrificing the advertising revenue so they can watch the tournament themselves without the annoyance of commercial after commercial. That's how important the game is to these types. I know it's a stretch, but kind of funny to consider. "Jones, I don't care about the lost adverstising dollars. Damn it, I want to see every minute of that tournament."........

I'm afraid that's not really a very realistic explanation of the reasons for advertising policy at Augusta midnightpulp.

In fact the US Masters is unique among the Majors in that the number of hours of play permitted to be transmitted live are very strictly limited. In each of the first two days for example there are at least 10+ hours of play but you will never see more than 3 hours of live coverage because The Augusta National Tournament Committee will traditionally not allow one minute more than 3 hours and 2008 will be no diferent in that respect. Some of the bigwigs who you speculated may have limited the advertising slots as a consequence of wanting to "see every minute" are in fact the guys who make the decision every year to strictly limit the length of the live tv coverage.

Limiting the number of hours live tv coverage, with or without accompanying advertising, cannot logically ever be the decision of bigwigs motivated by "wanting to see every minute". Any bigwig motivated by that would be encouraging several more hours of live tv coverage on each of the first two days. To put it in even more perspective The British Open has 11 hours plus of live tv coverage on BBC on each of the first two days (and incidentally no tv advetising at all during the entire 4 day coverage).

The only way any Augusta bigwig can see more than 3 hours of Masters play on the first two days is by following players around the course in person

 

[memikey]

...I am sure I will be corrected if wrong, but isn't pool just not real popular in USA?.....I was under the impression that Pool in the UK and PHI is very poplualar? ...

Those who play 'pool' in Uk consist of the people who play uk style 8 ball on dinky small tables with red and yellow balls and those who play 9 ball etc on American style equipment.

The former group probably outnumbers the latter group by at least 50 to 1 and even that former group represents a tiny little minority sport with exactly the same type of problems as USA in that there is no money in it for the players, no proper unified structure and a "pastime for lowlifes" image. You can therefore appreciate that the much smaller latter group, ie American style pool (mostly 9 ball), is not only a minority sport, it doesn't even register as a blip on the scale it is so tiny.

In Uk you could stop the first 10,000 people to walk down every High Street of every sizeable city and I would guarantee you that not only would less than an average of 1 in 10,000 know that Daryl Peach was the current World Champion, they wouldn't even know who Daryl Peach was or what sport he played and less than 1 in 1,000 would even know that 9 ball American pool was played in some Uk pool rooms/snooker clubs.

That's how popular it is in Uk..... but there are some pleasing current initiatives by the American pool playing fraternity in Uk so let's hope they succeed and promote more interest.

 

[buzzsaw]

I love both games. I have a table in my basement and I live on a golf course.

IMO there are a lot of similarities in the games, and, once played, they both become addicting. As a former buisness owner I viewed golf as an opportunity to get a client's attention for 4 or 5 hours without a whole lot of interuptions. Most of the time it didn't matter if anyone played well or not; it was just a chance to take the day off and play. I don't think I could ever convince a CEO to take 4 - 5 hours of his day to go play pool.

As far as pool is concerned, I think we (I'll throw myself into this) make pool appear very easy. It's pretty simple to make straight in shots every time. When ever I play a friend that isn't skilled in the game they either quit or I end up playing one handed with my eyes closed. Not much for either of us.

Someone mentioned making outrageous shots as an opportunity to gain interest. I just can't imagine someone passing up a simple shape shot to get that one-in-a-lifetime 10 rail kick-in to impress people. I know those shots look great when they're done but I don't see it changing pool as we know it today.

 

[worriedbeef]

Those who play 'pool' in Uk consist of the people who play uk style 8 ball on dinky small tables with red and yellow balls and those who play 9 ball etc on American style equipment.

The former group probably outnumbers the latter group by at least 50 to 1 and even that former group represents a tiny little minority sport with exactly the same type of problems as USA in that there is no money in it for the players, no proper unified structure and a "pastime for lowlifes" image. You can therefore appreciate that the much smaller latter group, ie American style pool (mostly 9 ball), is not only a minority sport, it doesn't even register as a blip on the scale it is so tiny.

In Uk you could stop the first 10,000 people to walk down every High Street of every sizeable city and I would guarantee you that not only would less than an average of 1 in 10,000 know that Daryl Peach was the current World Champion, they wouldn't even know who Daryl Peach was or what sport he played and less than 1 in 1,000 would even know that 9 ball American pool was played in some Uk pool rooms/snooker clubs.

That's how popular it is in Uk..... but there are some pleasing current initiatives by the American pool playing fraternity in Uk so let's hope they succeed and promote more interest.

this break depressing picture painted is spot on. pool might as well not exist for what it's worth in the uk. plus it has the added problem that it's compared to snooker when people see the game. and to the uninformed, less balls, 'huge' pockets make for a silly game. pool's problem in the uk is not that it's a minority sport, it's that it's not respected.

even a lot of the casual american pool players still prefer snooker "because it's harder". this is why i think ten ball is the way forward. a soft cut break on an easy playing metro table leaving five or six open balls to run out makes the game look silly. there's a clip on youtube of jimmy white playing pool and he says as he's playing it "what a silly game". sums up the image of pool amongst the snooker people in the uk. which is 99.999% of cue sport fans.

but there are some pleasing current initiatives by the American pool playing fraternity in Uk so let's hope they succeed and promote more interest.

yeah the new great britain 9-ball tour seems to be doing the right things and i wish it well. but again like i said, with what it's up against regarding image i think they should be playing ten ball to demand more of the players. more higher level kicking, jumping, and a need for a good strong break.

 

[whitewolf]

I used to hate golf.....Then one day I tryed it...Hated it because it was so frusterating....Then I tryed it a few more times...That was it I was hooked for life.There is NOT a better sport to play when you start understanding the game.There is not better day than going out for a round of golf.The awe of the golf course,fresh air,having a few beer.Venturing out to different beautiful courses.
I am so glad I took up the sport I once hated.That was 20 years ago,and still laugh when I hear people say golf is boring.For those I just say try it and you will full in love with it as well,I gaurantee it.
I don't know about many of you,but,I would much rather be out on a golf course than in a dark desolute pool room.No comparison.

You hit it on the nail head.

Plus, guys need an acceptable way to get 6 hours off from the family life. Pool doesn't offer this.

Once you smack the sh!t out the ball, it becomes addicting. It is sort of like imaging someone's face on the ball you can't stand and you whack it out of the universe. You just can't get that pleasure in pool, even with the break becaue when you hit the crap out of the golf ball, you don't even feel it. All you here is: 'swish'.

Or sinking a 40' winding down hill put. You can't even come close to simulating that in pool.

Why does one think Corey was drawn to golf? Couldn't have been all the gambling .

Handicapps are more fair in golf, even though people still cheat like hell. There is way too much hassling in the pool world, and APA handicapps are about as fare as you are going to get. In other words, you can be a spazzo in golf and still be a hero at the end of the day. This exists somewhat in the pool world, although we all know an SL2 is never going to beat an SL7.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Think this whole tread is why Golfer get Sponsorship, Money, and many of the thing Pool is lacking.

Average per capital income of Golfer is higher than Pool Players.

Most Golf is sanction by one organization the PGA be it PGA, LPGA, or Senior PGA, it all under on Umbrella so to say.

Professional Golfers are required to adhere to a strict Dress Code, and if you do not comply, well you do not play.

Many public Golf Courses have Dress Code to play.

To become a pro Golfer it is first PGA School, and then you try and qualify for the Tour.

Golf like NASCAR, MLB, NFL, NBA, Tennis have captured major corporate sponsorships like Auto companies, Stock Brokerages Houses, Liquor, Beer, and other high end consumer products, like Rolex watches.

Major PGA, LPGA, or Senior PGA events get thousands of spectators/fans paying up to $50.00/Day to watch and follow their favorite golfer at work.

Many corporate executive play golf, and the golf course is where the deal are made in many cases.

Most major communities in the US have at least one Golf Country Club Facility with many amenities beside golf. Initiation Fees for Country Club Membership can be small to over $100,000.00 for high end Country Clubs.

Golf is the Rich Mans Sport, and if you do not believe that go play Peddle Creek on the Monterey Coast in Monterey County CA, where a round of golf will set you back maybe $350.00 for 18 holes.

Pool is the working Mans Sport.

 

[DaveK]

A lot of the differences between professional sports can be traced to the promoters. We see the PGA Tour as a great institution that makes it's members rich, but it has not always been that way.

Dave

 

[jimmy-leggs]

A lot of the differences between professional sports can be traced to the promoters. We see the PGA Tour as a great institution that makes it's members rich, but it has not always been that way.

Dave

And whats astounding is the money that the P.G.A. gives to charities.It's a great sport for EVERYONE.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

A lot of the differences between professional sports can be traced to the promoters. We see the PGA Tour as a great institution that makes it's members rich, but it has not always been that way.

Dave

Many of those that did not get "rich" the first time around, now are getting "rich" ipon the Senior PGA Tour.

 

[renard]

give odd you dont golf!! know you dont drive race car!! what do you do other than pool??? as for me i enjoy pool and golf!! and can watch racing granted not my favorite. but you sound like you would sleep in T*t bar!!!

I did golf years and years ago, but to expensive. I do miss a beautiful day on the course but that to has been ages ago. I race my car everyday on the highway but we cant trade paint! Yes I have tried to sleep between a couple pillows at the aforementioned bar but was pushed away!

 

[metallicane]

I love golf and I love pool. I have a beautiful Kim Steel table in my basement, but it hardly gets any use in the summer. There is nothing like spending the morning on a golf course enjoying the fresh air. I play pool in the winter when I can't golf. Also, I don't reek of amoke when I am done golfing like i am when I come back from the local pool room. Fresh air is the biggest reason for me.