Independent squirt/deflection testing?

Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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Many years ago -- maybe 2006? -- there was an independent group that did squirt testing on cue sticks with a robot of some sort. For a year or two they published results and then went silent. I imagine they couldn't afford to do free stuff any more.

Anyone remember that group? I think Steve Titus was part of it.
 
Don't remember when I got this.

pj
chgo

Platinum Chart.png
 
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I don't believe anyone ever saw their testing robot. At lease that I recall. Who knows how good their setup was.

Me personally, I owned and played with for extended periods 314-1, 314-2, Z-1, Z-2, BK-1, and i-3, which were all at the top end of their chart. They were noticeably different aim as a group than any other shaft I tried in those days.
 
If we take their description of the testing at face value, the cues would all have different amounts of tip offset because they did not shape the tips all the same.

They would also all have different CB speeds because they kept the machine speed the same between stick brands. They did not adjust the robot to produce the same CB speed each different stick. (at least the way I interpret their paragraph below).

We also don't know how jacked up the stick was, or was it completely level by its centerline. That's not stated at all. We also don't know if they adjusted that each for different stick. If they did not, then there would be different amounts of swerve on the CB for each stick.



copy/paste:
HOW AND WHAT WE TEST
We ask the question “which shaft deflects least?” because the butt of the cue has little effect on cue ball deflection. However, shafts are generally tested on the same brand of butt and the test weight for all is kept close to 19 ounces. All shafts are tested as sold by the manufacturer including tip type and tip curvature as noted. All tests are performed using a robot which makes precisely the same stroke with each cue, and for this test the machine is set to produce cue ball speeds of around 15mph. A series of four shots is made with each cue and the resulting cue ball deflection is recorded on a target 50” away which is exactly the distance between the foot string and the head spot on a 4 ½ x 9 pool table. The four shots are 6mm (about ¼”) and 12mm left of center, and 6mm and 12mm right of center, and these offsets are measured from the center of the cue ball to the center of the shaft. The actual cue ball deflection produced by each shot is measured and the average for the series is given in the chart below in millimeters and inches.
 
I don't know who was in charge of the testing, but I find the paragraph below at the bottom of their chart suspect. One of the core principles in the "scientific method" is to publish your test method and data so others can reproduce it. I guess you had to call them on the phone if you wanted more info.


copy/paste
Platinum Billiards is an independent company and has no affiliation with any billiard product manufacturer.
The performance information we provide is based on careful scientific testing and observation. We are highly experienced at testing the performance of cues and we believe that our methods are sound and accurate. However, we do not claim that our findings are absolute. We are aware that cues of a same model vary slightly and as we test more samples of each, the numbers will become more refined. If any manufacturer is unhappy with our results and/or feels that the ratings are unfair, we encourage them to contact us and we will be happy to answer questions about our methodology and/or arrange for the testing of any cues they would like to send us, and if warranted, we will adjust the numbers accordingly. We can only offer testing of cues, shafts, products that are currently on the market. We do not offer testing for prototypes or products that have yet to be made available to the general public.
 
iusedtoberich said:
If we take their description of the testing at face value, the cues would all have different amounts of tip offset because they did not shape the tips all the same.

They would also all have different CB speeds because they kept the machine speed the same between stick brands. They did not adjust the robot to produce the same CB speed each different stick. (at least the way I interpret their paragraph below).

We also don't know how jacked up the stick was, or was it completely level by its centerline. That's not stated at all. We also don't know if they adjusted that each for different stick. If they did not, then there would be different amounts of swerve on the CB for each stick.



copy/paste:
HOW AND WHAT WE TEST
We ask the question “which shaft deflects least?” because the butt of the cue has little effect on cue ball deflection. However, shafts are generally tested on the same brand of butt and the test weight for all is kept close to 19 ounces. All shafts are tested as sold by the manufacturer including tip type and tip curvature as noted. All tests are performed using a robot which makes precisely the same stroke with each cue, and for this test the machine is set to produce cue ball speeds of around 15mph. A series of four shots is made with each cue and the resulting cue ball deflection is recorded on a target 50” away which is exactly the distance between the foot string and the head spot on a 4 ½ x 9 pool table. The four shots are 6mm (about ¼”) and 12mm left of center, and 6mm and 12mm right of center, and these offsets are measured from the center of the cue ball to the center of the shaft. The actual cue ball deflection produced by each shot is measured and the average for the series is given in the chart below in millimeters and inches.
Click to expand...
15 mph? That's a very hard shot, isn't it? Then again, I doubt swerve would be much of a factor, and the results should scale back to more typical shot speeds.
 
Professional players hit the cue ball on a break shot at about 25 mph. From an article by Dr. George Onoda:

I analyzed video tapes of some of the matches in the 1986 Resorts International tournament, and the 1987 Brunswick 9-Ball Team Challenge. (Players involved in the tapes included Mike Sigel, Jim Rempe, Allen Hopkins, Steve Mizerak, Nick Varner and Jose Garcia.) The speed of break shots ranged from 22 to 26 MPH, the average being 24 MPH. The top speed of 26 MPH was recorded for several break shots by Mike Sigel. At this speed, the cue ball reached the one ball in 0.12 seconds. The speeds of break shots in several women professionals were also measured, using a tape of the Brunswick Team Challenge. In one break shot Jean Balukas propelled the ball at 22 MPH. Ewa Mataya, Belinda Bearden and Loree Jon Jones typically had speeds between 18 and 21 MPH. From this small sampling, the women's speed were on the average around 20 MPH, which is about 83 percent of the average for the men.​

George Onoda. 1989. Faster Than A Speeding Bullet? How fast does the cue ball really travel on a typical break shot? Billiards Digest, May/June 1989: 34.

See attached.
 

Attachments

Paul_#_ said:
Professional players hit the cue ball on a break shot at about 25 mph. From an article by Dr. George Onoda:

I analyzed video tapes of some of the matches in the 1986 Resorts International tournament, and the 1987 Brunswick 9-Ball Team Challenge. (Players involved in the tapes included Mike Sigel, Jim Rempe, Allen Hopkins, Steve Mizerak, Nick Varner and Jose Garcia.) The speed of break shots ranged from 22 to 26 MPH, the average being 24 MPH. The top speed of 26 MPH was recorded for several break shots by Mike Sigel. At this speed, the cue ball reached the one ball in 0.12 seconds. The speeds of break shots in several women professionals were also measured, using a tape of the Brunswick Team Challenge. In one break shot Jean Balukas propelled the ball at 22 MPH. Ewa Mataya, Belinda Bearden and Loree Jon Jones typically had speeds between 18 and 21 MPH. From this small sampling, the women's speed were on the average around 20 MPH, which is about 83 percent of the average for the men.​

George Onoda. 1989. Faster Than A Speeding Bullet? How fast does the cue ball really travel on a typical break shot? Billiards Digest, May/June 1989: 34.

See attached.
Click to expand...
I was watching a Filler-Gorst nine ball match and they were breaking in the 19-20 mph range. It was impressive that most of their breaks were within 1/2 mph, very consistent. But I'd be surprised if the average pool shot is 7 mph. That's the full length of the table in under 1 second.
 
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