Inexperience, Naivete, Misrepresentation

[Drawman623]

Jayman's thread "Just Shoot Me" in the for sale forum has reminded me of three experiences and prompted a question for AZers who sell cues.

As a young collector, I had an early Joss that I wanted to sell. I asked someone who claimed to know cues and he identified it as a Bill Stroud Joss east, made prior to the seperation between he and Dan Janes. I listed it as a Stroud cue on Ebay and caused quite a rucus. Ultimately, I ended my auction and published the note from Bill Stroud that said he didn't build the cue. What an embarrassing mess.

I was recently contacted by a Balabushka owner who was told I did some writing for the Blue Book. He wanted authentication. I referred him to Pete Tascarella but the person was persistent that I look at his cue first. We met at a local coffee shop. He had a 1st catalog Palmer...dead bang identification, no doubt. The guy didn't even offer to pay for my coffee and stormed out. Obviously he had been defrauded by the last seller.

Now, as Jayman notes, there is a "Balabushka" for sale on ebay. It has ferrules that are suspect, a bumper that has no way of being original, thin nickle rings and other distinctions that call to question its authenticity, or prove its inauthenticity.

My question: Should every seller be expected to know his product is authentic? Will that even matter?

The criminals will simply falsify authentications if we require everybody to practice greater dilligence in reserching their items before offering them for sale. I think the buyer must beware. There are thieves trying to sell forged cues, misrepresented cues, even overseas cues as locally made. At the end of the day, experience, references like the Blue Book of Cue Values and the help of one another are the only real resources we have to make informed decisions.

 

[cuenut]

I think uninformed buyers often purchase cues/whatever for "retail" prices if authentic, and simply are trying to pass on their "authentic" item to another uninformed buyer so as not to lose money; or they actually believe it to be authentic because they paid so much and are unwilling to accept someone else's opinion because they think the potential buyer actually thinks it is authentic and is trying to steal it from them for nearly noting compared to what they paid for it.

Also, some guys are simply crooks and are trying to steal from others. Case in point. I was at a rather large local tournament, which seems to be getting bigger every time they have it because the purse is quite large. A guy came to the tournament with an old Adams cue, complete with pointed joint pin and all, and tried to sell it as an authentic Balabushka and was asking $12,000. I didn't get his name, but informed everyone who even came close to it to steer clear.

 

[ridewiththewind]

Jayman's thread "Just Shoot Me" in the for sale forum has reminded me of three experiences and prompted a question for AZers who sell cues.

As a young collector, I had an early Joss that I wanted to sell. I asked someone who claimed to know cues and he identified it as a Bill Stroud Joss east, made prior to the seperation between he and Dan Janes. I listed it as a Stroud cue on Ebay and caused quite a rucus. Ultimately, I ended my auction and published the note from Bill Stroud that said he didn't build the cue. What an embarrassing mess.

I was recently contacted by a Balabushka owner who was told I did some writing for the Blue Book. He wanted authentication. I referred him to Pete Tascarella but the person was persistent that I look at his cue first. We met at a local coffee shop. He had a 1st catalog Palmer...dead bang identification, no doubt. The guy didn't even offer to pay for my coffee and stormed out. Obviously he had been defrauded by the last seller.

Now, as Jayman notes, there is a "Balabushka" for sale on ebay. It has ferrules that are suspect, a bumper that has no way of being original, thin nickle rings and other distinctions that call to question its authenticity, or prove its inauthenticity.

My question: Should every seller be expected to know his product is authentic? Will that even matter?

The criminals will simply falsify authentications if we require everybody to practice greater dilligence in reserching their items before offering them for sale. I think the buyer must beware. There are thieves trying to sell forged cues, misrepresented cues, even overseas cues as locally made. At the end of the day, experience, references like the Blue Book of Cue Values and the help of one another are the only real resources we have to make informed decisions.

My feeling is that it is the seller's responsibility to make every effort to present their cues as accurately as possible. In the case of these older, collectible cues, then yes, a letter of authenticity or Provenance should be provided. When you choose to ask 'collectible' prices for cues, then you should also choose to spend the $$$ for authentication...especially if this info did not exist prior.

The buyer also needs to take the responsibility to ask the right questions in these matters. Failure to do so should not allow them to feign ignorance later. There really is no excuse for not knowing, without a shadow of a doubt, what it is you are selling or buying. Do the research, ask the right questions, obtain the proper documentation.

There is no excuse for "I bought it as..." or "I was assured it was..."

Lisa

 

[jay helfert]

There is an old saying when it comes to making purchases. "Let the buyer beware!" And you better do just that if you intend to buy an expensive cue from someone you don't know.