Inside spin on cutshots- Help a banger

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
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I would look at what Dr.Dave and Bob Jewett have to say about it. they are psychicists

I think Dr. Dave is a mechanical engineer and Bob is a mathematician? I don't think either are physicists.

I do agree that Dave often has a slow motion video that covers the topic and is a good resource for most topics related to what is really happening when balls collide.
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
I think Dr. Dave is a mechanical engineer and Bob is a mathematician? I don't think either are physicists.

I do agree that Dave often has a slow motion video that covers the topic and is a good resource for most topics related to what is really happening when balls collide.

Pretty sure Bob is an Electrical Engineer.
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Really -. How many more times are you going to try to drag CTE arguments back into the Main Forum?

They set up a separate but equal area for "Aiming Discussions" - for the love of God, please use it.

Dale(someone had to say it)

It seems that John returned to AZB for almost no other reason than to promote CTE here, even though it is supposedly doing so very well & also has so much more exposure in so many other places.

John now has his own 'forum' on Facebook, but has chosen to return here for some reason. The reason can only be truly known by John.

But... CTE certainly seems to be a main focus & it seems as though he has the blessings of management.

Best Wishes.
 

Dockter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for all the replies. I'm okay with draw and follow but I'll admit I'm not great when it comes to using right or left and it's something I really need to practice. I mean I use it but my miss % goes up and I normally hit to hard and don't end up anywhere near where I want to. I really appreciate all the help guys.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
It seems that John returned to AZB for almost no other reason than to promote CTE here, even though it is supposedly doing so very well & also has so much more exposure in so many other places.

John now has his own 'forum' on Facebook, but has chosen to return here for some reason. The reason can only be truly known by John.

But... CTE certainly seems to be a main focus & it seems as though he has the blessings of management.

Best Wishes.

Dude seriously, if you're gonna harass me by stalking around then at least be fair.

Did I mention CTE in my response?

No I did not.

Did Dale mention it while trying to knock me? YES, he did.

So at least TRY TO BE FAIR.
 

Aaron_S

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Maybe someone more in tune with the physics of the game could provide an explanation as to why the spin would help, but I haven't seen anything in my experience that would lead me to believe that the spin itself would cause the OB to track down the rail more consistently.

The best tip I ever got for cutting frozen balls down the rail was to aim to hit the rail very, very slightly before the ball. The difference in aim point may only be a millimeter, and it is so close that you really don't know if you hit the rail or the ball first, but my percentages on these shots went way up when I started doing it. Based on that, I would submit as a possibility that it is not the inside spin itself, but rather the squirt that is assisting you with this shot. If you are catching the OB slightly thinner due to the squirt, that could result in the same positive effect I see by aiming slightly thinner without spin.

Aaron
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Maybe someone more in tune with the physics of the game could provide an explanation as to why the spin would help, but I haven't seen anything in my experience that would lead me to believe that the spin itself would cause the OB to track down the rail more consistently.
It doesn't. It also doesn't last long enough to help the OB's angle off the pocket facing.

The best tip I ever got for cutting frozen balls down the rail was to aim to hit the rail very, very slightly before the ball.
Depending on how you hit the CB (rolling, draw, stun, sidespin), because of throw you usually have to overcut slightly with or without the rail being there. That's one reason hitting the rail slightly first works better - but it really just means aim like the rail isn't there.

Another reason it might work a little better is that the CB has two chances to hit the OB in the right spot - once on its way into the rail (as the cushion compresses) and again on its way away from the rail (as the cushion decompresses).

I think ignoring the rail covers the bases, so that's what I do - except for using it as a visual cue to help me see the OB contact point.

pj
chgo
 
Maybe someone more in tune with the physics of the game could provide an explanation as to why the spin would help, but I haven't seen anything in my experience that would lead me to believe that the spin itself would cause the OB to track down the rail more consistently.

The best tip I ever got for cutting frozen balls down the rail was to aim to hit the rail very, very slightly before the ball. The difference in aim point may only be a millimeter, and it is so close that you really don't know if you hit the rail or the ball first, but my percentages on these shots went way up when I started doing it. Based on that, I would submit as a possibility that it is not the inside spin itself, but rather the squirt that is assisting you with this shot. If you are catching the OB slightly thinner due to the squirt, that could result in the same positive effect I see by aiming slightly thinner without spin.

Aaron

I'm no Dr. Dave, but I agree with you, mostly. What the spin mostly does, as I said in my post is to widen the margin of error because the ball can hit up the rail and because of the compression of the rail and the spin, it corrects itself a bit.

That said, the spin, if one hits the rail first, will lessen the cut-induced throw as it comes off the rail and hits the OB. Not saying it helps the ball track, but it does seem to make the shot easier...as in: If that is the game ball and I don't have to worry about shape, I'm likely to hit that shot with inside english.

I fully advocate shooting rail shots with the english they require.
 

Aaron_S

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Depending on how you hit the CB (rolling, draw, stun, sidespin), because of throw you usually have to overcut slightly with or without the rail being there. That's one reason hitting the rail slightly first works better - but it really just means aim like the rail isn't there.

pj
chgo

I haven't tried to visualize it like that, but it makes perfect sense. I will be sure to offer that advice in the future when I am coaching someone on these shots. Thanks Pat!

Aaron
 

ceebee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I like using a bit of inside spin on rail shots... BUT in watching a video from Tor Lowry, he suggests using center ball follow on the cue ball to keep the OB on the rail, to the pocket.

As I see the process, the CB is giving the OB some induced spin to help it go into the pocket. Inside spin on the cue ball may be an assistant to this process.
 

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
you end up in two different areas with the cue ball if you hit the rail first or hit the ball first.

When you hit the ball first the spin takes when it hits the rail and you go up table more.

When you hit the rail first the cue ball goes close to 90 degrees to the rail.

So you need to pick the correct shot for the leave you want.

I think this is the most important thing about using inside on frozen rail shots. And the tough part is that you can make the ball either rail first or ball first, and the cue ball path can differ very dramatically.
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Dude seriously, if you're gonna harass me by stalking around then at least be fair.

Did I mention CTE in my response?

No I did not.

Did Dale mention it while trying to knock me? YES, he did.

So at least TRY TO BE FAIR.

John,

Is everyone limited by only your current post.

I'm not harassing you.

I was merely agreeing with Dale & expanding on what he said a bit.

Why attack me for that. Be Fair.

If I've said something that is incorrect, then address it.

Simple enough.

Best Wishes, DUDE.
 
Last edited:

qfans

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Spin Again

i believe you need to learn this cut shot using all types of spin to create the shape you desire, just trying to explain why certain spin seems keep the object ball nearer its path. Like trying to make the two frozen ball shot with cue above the side pocket and object ball below it." That being said Just make balls, shape is overrated and you'll learn to pocket more balls after shooting a lot of tough shots" HaHa, can we play some cheap then? Oh and I need a spot ! And John I love my GTF rust 2x4 but have acquired another Durbin and now I desire your newer Compact Case I believe is based off the Mason!! Just incredibly durable beautiful cases great for travel or storage, thanks for your work.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
uhhhmm...pretty sure Dr. Dave is a doctor.
Not a medical doctor; he has a "doctorate" degree (PhD) in mechanical engineering (and is a university professor in that subject).

From his website:

David G. Alciatore, PhD, PE ("Dr. Dave")

For his "day job," Dr. Dave is a mechanical engineering professor at Colorado State University in Fort Collins, Colorado.


pj
chgo
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
John,

Is everyone limited by only your current post.

I'm not harassing you.

I was merely agreeing with Dale & expanding on what he said a bit.

Why attack me for that. Be Fair.

If I've said something that is incorrect, then address it.

Simple enough.

Best Wishes, DUDE.
My pleasure.

#1 your post adds NOTHING to the topic.

#2 by agreeing with Dale you are piling onto a false premise by him and literally harassing me instead of giving the op and the forum anything useful.



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