Installed my first ivory ferrule today...

Tommy-D

World's best B player...
Silver Member
> I am very pleased to report that my first ivory ferrule came out as close to perfect as I could ask for. It started as a Mueller blank,center drilled on both ends. I used a #2 center drill,and touched off on the original hole,there was so little difference I could barely tell it. I used a fresh 1/16 carbide drill bit and went all the way thru nice and slow,and it even came thru on the other end perfectly centered,surprising considering the tailstock on my little Enco 7 x 10 is kinda cheesy. I moved up a bit and drilled to .702 deep with a 15/64 bit,freshly sharpened. I used a jewelers loupe and a small LED fishing light and looked down in the hole. The 118 degree point on the drills left a peaked "floor" at the bottom of the hole,which I overanalyzed,concluding this might leave a thin spot in the cap,considering I have to cut the centerdrill hole out of the end. I corrected this by running a 1/4 3 flute center cutting end mill into the hole,to a depth of .745. I knew from school and TRYING to memorize the Machinist's Handbook that the correct size drill for 5/16-18 threads is an F drill,which mikes out at .257. Since I was already at .250,and wanting to achieve a fairly snug fit,I left the hole as is,and used an H3 plug tap,chucked up in the tailstock,and turned the lathe on. I moved the tap in close,and left myself room to back out clear,since the travel on my tailstock is rather short. I turned the lathe on,sped it up a little,then turned it off and carefully gouged in to start the tap straight. I turned the chuck by hand,and backed out a few times to help clear chips and keep it cool. Once I got all the way down,I went back in with a H3 bottoming tap. At this point,I smiled,because I was careful and didn't ruin the only ivory ferrule I had on hand. The ferrule on the shaft was a fully threaded LBP,with the help of a heat gun and Knipex adjustable pliers,came off easily after about 30 seconds of heat. I miked the shaft twice,at 90 degree angles,coming up with .513 both ways. I took the new ferrule and screwed it down on my lathe pin and indicated it,and took it down to .516,and sanded with 220 to .510. I then stepped back for a minute,and mapped out the next few steps,since this was a new frontier for me. The tenon on the shafts was a little over an inch long,so I cut it to length using a very thin parting tool. The base of the tenon had very light threads,and a slight bulge,I cleaned this up with a diamond grit nail file. The thread fit was quite a bit looser than I anticipated,my conclusion was the tenon was a little undersized,and the tap I used is only .001-.0015 bigger than an H2. I screwed it onto the shaft,and noticed it took a little patience to get it lined up with the same overhang all the way around,possibly due to the tenon being not quite true. The ferrule also did not screw down totally snug due to the smaller than ideal tenon,which confirmed my suspicions by miking at .305. This also may have been caused by running the tap in and out several times to make sure the threads were clean. I faced the shoulder,and faced the open end of the ferrule,using a 60 degree countersink to deburr the threaded end,and take the less than perfect 90 degree angle at the bottom of the tenon out of play. I mixed up some fresh Devcon 5 Minute epoxy up,and lined it up as good as I could,and used the live center to clamp in place. After a 3 hour wait,which was probably overkill,I applyed the tip and went about matching the wood up with the ivory. I used a one inch wide strip of 220,wrapped around a smooth mill file. All it took was 5-6 swipes with the paper,and I felt no transition at all,so I cleaned,sealed and waxed the shaft like normal,and other than a slight glue line,it looked like it was installed by the cuemaker himself. I miked the shaft after all the sanding,the difference was only .005,with absolutely no dirt left in the pores at all. Total working time was about 2 hours,which is probably working at a snails pace for several here. I did this job as a personal skill challenge,at no charge for labor,the customer/best friend supplied the blank. Any better methods to be offered,other than buying pre-threaded blanks and a bigger machine? Tommy D.
 
Good job. I would have done a few things differently, but like they say, there is a million ways to skin a cat.

I think turning the ferrule to the final diameter before installing it on the shaft is asking for trouble. You have to rely on the threads in the ferrule being perfectly concentric with the outer diameter of the ferrule, and the threads on the shaft tenon being perfectly concentric with the shaft's outer diameter. Then, you have to have a TIGHT fit for nothing to shift on you as you screw on the ferrule. You had some trouble with this, and concluded it was the threads on the tenon. But I think even if you threaded the ferrule and the tenon yourself, it would be almost impossible to machine it so precisely that the ferrule fit onto the shaft perfectly flush.

I do the final turning of the ferrule while it is glued to the shaft. I can get it to match the shaft wood usually within .001 all around the ferrule BEFORE I ever touch the sandpaper. This allows me to remove only .002 or so of the the shaft wood diameter on a ferrule job, which is something I strive to do (removing as little wood as possible). The closer you get the ferrule matched to the wood before sanding, the better you are. Because when using the lathe tool (a SHARP one!), the ferrule will be perfectly straight. But when using sandpaper, you can lose that perfectly straight edge.

Another thing...I'm sure you noticed is was a pain in the ass to drill the 1/16 hole all the way through the ferrule. I drill, then bore the tenon hole first. Then I thread the tenon. Then I turn the ferrule around in the chuck and drill the glue relief hole from the other side. This means you are only drilling with the small 1/16 drill for about 1/4 inch deep. This just minimizes all that tailstock handwheel cranking.
 
> I was actually a little surprised to find that the ivory drilled so easily,this might have been credited to the sharpness of the carbide drill I used here. Your method of doing this sounds much easier,with less chance of the bit tracking off and ruining the blank,so this will be incorporated into my next one,as will leaving it a little oversized,I have to admit when I first saw how loose the tenon fit was,it worried me. The tenon was pre-threaded,good thing because my machine doesn't have the gear needed for the feed to work,so everything has to be done by hand until I get a better machine. My machine in this case is an Enco 7 x 10 that had been used for cue repair before I bought it,quite possibly the best 300 bucks I've ever spent on stuff like this. It came with a very well made/designed but bulky rear steady rest,made from some U-channel stock welded to a 1/4 thick steel base,which is meant to be bolted down but isn't in my case. It has slots milled into it,for height adjustment,and a diamond shaped pillow block bearing mount with swivel. It has a "universal" delrin collet press fitted into the bearing,and hasn't given me a lick of trouble. It has a Bison 3 jaw chuck,discolored from age,and had the compound protractor removed,so I can't use it to cut angles,it was set to only move in the X axis,perfect for fine adjustment on facing cuts. It also came with a 6 jaw Buck chuck,that has yet to be installed because the chuck currently on it zeros pretty well with the collet I made. It's paid for itself 20 times just doing tips and predominantly Meucci type ferrules. The ONLY trouble it has ever given me is its appetite for on/off switches,having replaced 4 of them in the 6 years I've had it. I can see that once I get my shop up and running,I will need a new one pretty close to this for small jobs,maybe one of those new ones with the digital readout and cam lock tailstock. My other machine is a cheap Chinese wood lathe with adapters made to fit the 18mm-2.5 spindle so I could install a Hightower 3 jaw on the spindle and a 1/2 Jacobs on the other end. Tommy D.
 
If I start with a blank, I chuck up the piece of ivory, then barely dimple the end with my smallest center drill. I then fire up my cordless with a very tiny bit in it, and poke it in about 3/16. Flip the ferrule around, and use a 1/4" end mill to make a hole leaving a small cap. Using a regular 5/16 tap I run it in and out until near the cap, then use my bottoming tap to get the threads all the way in. Next, a 5/16" bit removes the first couple of threads, then the end is faced. Pull the ferrule, insert the shaft. Cut the tenon, thread the tenon, screw the ferrule on with some epoxy. Turn the ferrule down while still on the shaft, face the end, install tip, finish sand, seal, and DONE. Total time spent = approximately 20 minutes.
 
Sheldon said:
If I start with a blank, I chuck up the piece of ivory, then barely dimple the end with my smallest center drill. I then fire up my cordless with a very tiny bit in it, and poke it in about 3/16. Flip the ferrule around, and use a 1/4" end mill to make a hole leaving a small cap. Using a regular 5/16 tap I run it in and out until near the cap, then use my bottoming tap to get the threads all the way in. Next, a 5/16" bit removes the first couple of threads, then the end is faced. Pull the ferrule, insert the shaft. Cut the tenon, thread the tenon, screw the ferrule on with some epoxy. Turn the ferrule down while still on the shaft, face the end, install tip, finish sand, seal, and DONE. Total time spent = approximately 20 minutes.



That's pretty much the method I've been using, except I sometimes drill smaller, and slightly bore the ferrule before tapping. I tap My own with a 5/16x18 tap, and play with the bore dia. before tapping to figure out the best fit (not too tight & not too loose)
Threading the tenon- I did end up picking up one of those steel ferrule threading tools, and it works much better then the old one I had. Thanks for turning me on to that Sheldon, It does work alot better, and the tenon gauge makes things alot quicker and easier.

Greg
 
Cue Crazy said:
Threading the tenon- I did end up picking up one of those steel ferrule threading tools, and it works much better then the old one I had. Thanks for turning me on to that Sheldon, It does work alot better, and the tenon gauge makes things alot quicker and easier.

:) You can have a tenon cut and threaded in under a minute with those things. Another thing I like about them, is that they really dont remove much from the tenon, leaving it pretty strong. I have experimented with using a trim router to cut threads, but it takes more wood away, possibly weakening the tenon.
BTW, I hope people don't get the wrong idea here, I don't focus on trying to do things FAST, I do take my time when it's necessary. :D
 
Sheldon said:
:) You can have a tenon cut and threaded in under a minute with those things. Another thing I like about them, is that they really dont remove much from the tenon, leaving it pretty strong. I have experimented with using a trim router to cut threads, but it takes more wood away, possibly weakening the tenon.
BTW, I hope people don't get the wrong idea here, I don't focus on trying to do things FAST, I do take my time when it's necessary. :D




Yeah, I have'nt tried using a router, but that little tool gets the job done nicely, and is very quick. It also centers It'self out very well, even when driving it on the tenon by hand. I use a short shoulder also, so between the 2 they center so well, that I can see no runnout by eye after the ferrule is glued. I can dome break ferrules before installing when I choose to go that way, and because they center so well, there is no need to touch up the radius after the ferrule is installed. They are well worth the money, only had mine since you recomended it to me, and It's already paid for it'self 20 times over or better.
I talked to chad when I ordered it, and he informed Me that they now have one made of steel too. I just went with the one you recomended, but Have You tried the one they make now by any chance?
 
Personally, I prefer cutting the threads using a trim router but if anyone is worried about weakening the tenon, try using a different thread for both tenon & ferrule. Part of the beauty of machining your own components is having the freedom to experiment.

I've used 5/16-24, which isn't as deep as the 5/16-18 pitch and I often use 3/8-16. The 3/8-16 works fine as long as the shaft is 13mm and the ferrule material is linen based for strength. For players who like a sleeve style tenon, you can't get much more wood under the tip while still having a mechanical bond to keep it securely fastened.

See here: http://www.dzcues.com/images/threaded ferrule.jpg
 
dzcues said:
Personally, I prefer cutting the threads using a trim router but if anyone is worried about weakening the tenon, try using a different thread for both tenon & ferrule. Part of the beauty of machining your own components is having the freedom to experiment.

I've used 5/16-24, which isn't as deep as the 5/16-18 pitch and I often use 3/8-16. The 3/8-16 works fine as long as the shaft is 13mm and the ferrule material is linen based for strength. For players who like a sleeve style tenon, you can't get much more wood under the tip while still having a mechanical bond to keep it securely fastened.

See here: http://www.dzcues.com/images/threaded ferrule.jpg


I may try the router one day just to experiement like you mentioned, and I can see the 24 being stronger, but really happy the way I'm doing them for now (quick, Easy & good). I use a bigger tenon sometimes also to get more wood on the face, but usually on a slip tenon design. Guess there's many ways to milk a cow. I've had decent luck with slip tenons also, so don't have a problem doing them that way either when needed (especially when I have time for 2-ton). I just like the reassurance of the threaded, pluss they glue up easier with a built in clamp. :D
 
Sheldon said:
:) You can have a tenon cut and threaded in under a minute with those things. Another thing I like about them, is that they really dont remove much from the tenon, leaving it pretty strong. I have experimented with using a trim router to cut threads, but it takes more wood away, possibly weakening the tenon.
BTW, I hope people don't get the wrong idea here, I don't focus on trying to do things FAST, I do take my time when it's necessary. :D

Added info on the tool would be great. Who makes them, any pictures? Thanks.
 
Cue Crazy said:
I talked to chad when I ordered it, and he informed Me that they now have one made of steel too. I just went with the one you recomended, but Have You tried the one they make now by any chance?
I've been using THIS one
 
Sheldon said:
I've been using THIS one
Hi Sheldon,

Can you (or anyone else) please post some clear, close-up pics of the threads generated with this tool? If I recall, this tool is meant to be used on a tenon .280 diameter instead of .312. If that's correct, then .030 of the thread form will be missing. That doesn't seem like it would leave much thread to crank down on. Also, if the supplied wax is used as the thread cutting lubricant & you guys are spinning this on at a pretty good clip (thereby melting some of the wax into the wood), does it affect the glue bond at all?

I'm not trying to bust 'em for anyone but this tool sounds too good to be true. If, however, the threads look good, I may have to explore this option.

Always looking for better way.

Thanks in advance.
 
dzcues said:
Hi Sheldon,

Can you (or anyone else) please post some clear, close-up pics of the threads generated with this tool? If I recall, this tool is meant to be used on a tenon .280 diameter instead of .312. If that's correct, then .030 of the thread form will be missing. That doesn't seem like it would leave much thread to crank down on. Also, if the supplied wax is used as the thread cutting lubricant & you guys are spinning this on at a pretty good clip (thereby melting some of the wax into the wood), does it affect the glue bond at all?

I'm not trying to bust 'em for anyone but this tool sounds too good to be true. If, however, the threads look good, I may have to explore this option.

Always looking for better way.

Thanks in advance.

I've got one of these tools but the only time I really use it is to clean up the threads on a ferrule repair. For new installs, I grind the threads. To me, cosmetically, the ground threads just look better. I can't comment on the strucual integrity as I haven't really had any problems with either one. If you're not careful though,you can twist off a tenon using this tool. Just my 2 cents.
 
dzcues said:
Hi Sheldon,
Can you (or anyone else) please post some clear, close-up pics of the threads generated with this tool? If I recall, this tool is meant to be used on a tenon .280 diameter instead of .312. If that's correct, then .030 of the thread form will be missing. That doesn't seem like it would leave much thread to crank down on. Also, if the supplied wax is used as the thread cutting lubricant & you guys are spinning this on at a pretty good clip (thereby melting some of the wax into the wood), does it affect the glue bond at all?
I'm not trying to bust 'em for anyone but this tool sounds too good to be true. If, however, the threads look good, I may have to explore this option.
The tenon is cut to .280, however, the part that's missing is only the very tip of the thread if you router cut them.
Ferrules screw on nice and snug, and you will tear the tenon right off the shaft before the threads strip. I do tenons both ways, routered, and with the die. Both methods work very well. The die is a hell of a lot faster though.
I use beeswax to lube the tenon, and have never had a problem with ferrules coming loose. (I use G5 epoxy)
tcd.jpg
 
Sheldon said:
The tenon is cut to .280, however, the part that's missing is only the very tip of the thread if you router cut them.
Ferrules screw on nice and snug, and you will tear the tenon right off the shaft before the threads strip. I do tenons both ways, routered, and with the die. Both methods work very well. The die is a hell of a lot faster though.
I use beeswax to lube the tenon, and have never had a problem with ferrules coming loose. (I use G5 epoxy)
Thanks for excellent picture. I'll have to give it a try.
 
dzcues said:
Thanks for excellent picture. I'll have to give it a try.


Yeah, Give It a shot Bob, and see what you think. I can't sit here honestly tell you it's better then a router, or the best thing since the wheel, but used with alittle experiementing, I was able to get a nice fit, and the threads come out well enough that I can live with it as long as needed.

If you get the bore on the ferrule sized just right before tapping, but not too tight of a fit that You end up snapping the tenon off screwing It on, then they are a wonderfull quick tool to use. All My ferrules are done at the time I put them on, as I am not organized enough to have them already made up, and on hand :D, so if the one I make does not fit perfect the first time, then I chuck it to the side, and under cut the bore on another to tighten the fit, or opposite to loosen It up some. once you know what size bore works best, you should just be able to duplicate it. The tenon thread can come out kind of acme looking, so the bore on the ferrule seems to be the key to a perfect fit.

I'm able to get a fit, that really allows me to screw the ferrule snug with a pair of channel locks, and does'nt seem that I would be able to strip the threads out, without breaking the tenon off or snapping the shaft in the proccess, so they really snug up nice, and you can't see any epoxy seam. At the same time, I can mostly screw the thing on by hand, so they are not too tight either.

The wax, I don't gob it on, I just use the bare minumum I can get away with, and seems that most the wax is cut out By the threader, because I don't really see a very shiny tenon afterwards. I do use a small shoulder that does'nt get threaded, therefore It sees no wax on that part, so after cutting the threads most of the glueing surfaces are wax free, and if any is left, IMO, It's not enough to create an issue. I don't seem to have any glueing problems either, but as I mention in the other post I do prefer to use a 2-ton when I have the time, just to be safer.

What I can say is I have used another threader, and this one seems far better. If you do get one, try it, and don't like it, I'm sure someone on here without rotary/thread grinding capibilities, would buy It, and you would'nt be out much $'s. It's better then I've tried out so far. Your biggest advantage would probably be time saved as sheldon said, but It's not bad for what it is. I'm happy with Mine. Wish I could find one like It to cut larger dia threads that would center straight, and make threads this good at the same time. I was looking for one of these made from steel and Sheldon recomended this one to me in a previous thread. Could'nt thank him enough for that one.
Greg
 
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