Instroke que case question
- Thread starter MikieG
- Start date
John Barton told me many years ago that German Instrokes are a MYTH.
He should know, if anyone does.
Instroke
I like the 3x7 instroke I got from you ..
I will be back in reno the 2nd of next month .I think .....
I like the 3x7 instroke I got from you ..
I will be back in reno the 2nd of next month .I think .....
While looking for a new cue case at an exhibition, I came to the booth of the German company Stroke Sports. They told me that they were the original owner of the brand Instroke. They still sell their cue cases under this brand name exept in USA. Instroke Germany was founded 1995.
I was told that they had a sales agent in the US once that cheated them and had cheap cases produced in Asia and sold them also under the brand name Instroke. Thus, their reputation was severely dammaged.
To avoid further dammage, the German company Instroke founded a new brand name called Stroke Sports in 2003. This story is also published on their web page.
http://www.strokesports.de/de/ueber-uns/firmengeschichte.html
I can't comment on that story but some photos indicate that they even sponsored once the American Moscony Cup Team.
So if German Instrokes are a MYTH - they must be a good one, as I saw many cases on that booth.
Gerhard
(The German
)
I was told that they had a sales agent in the US once that cheated them and had cheap cases produced in Asia and sold them also under the brand name Instroke. Thus, their reputation was severely dammaged.
To avoid further dammage, the German company Instroke founded a new brand name called Stroke Sports in 2003. This story is also published on their web page.
http://www.strokesports.de/de/ueber-uns/firmengeschichte.html
I can't comment on that story but some photos indicate that they even sponsored once the American Moscony Cup Team.
So if German Instrokes are a MYTH - they must be a good one, as I saw many cases on that booth.
Gerhard
(The German
)
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Here's what John Barton had to say in 2004 about Instroke cases and the production sites: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=81231&postcount=3
Instroke Cases from Germany are real........I own 4 Instroke cases.
Two 3x7, One 2x4 and One 4x8.........One of the 3x7 cases came from Germany.
Instroke are like production cues.......okay but hardly anything to rave or write home about.
Matt B.
Two 3x7, One 2x4 and One 4x8.........One of the 3x7 cases came from Germany.
Instroke are like production cues.......okay but hardly anything to rave or write home about.
Matt B.
While looking for a new cue case at an exhibition, I came to the booth of the German company Stroke Sports. They told me that they were the original owner of the brand Instroke. They still sell their cue cases under this brand name exept in USA. Instroke Germany was founded 1995.
I was told that they had a sales agent in the US once that cheated them and had cheap cases produced in Asia and sold them also under the brand name Instroke. Thus, their reputation was severely dammaged.
To avoid further dammage, the German company Instroke founded a new brand name called Stroke Sports in 2003. This story is also published on their web page.
http://www.strokesports.de/de/ueber-uns/firmengeschichte.html
I can't comment on that story but some photos indicate that they even sponsored once the American Moscony Cup Team.
So if German Instrokes are a MYTH - they must be a good one, as I saw many cases on that booth.
Gerhard
(The German
There is a myth and it is the story on what's left of that site.
I founded Instroke in Koblenz Germany in my house. It was my brand in Europe and in the USA. I partnered with a couple folks in Germany to let them into MY company and the mass production was set in the Czech Republic.
In 1999 I left Germany to run Instroke in the USA. We had clear agreements on who owned what and the USA was mine to run. We owned the name Instroke in Germany under Instroke Sports GmBH. Public records will clearly show the history of the company. In the USA I maintained ownership of the brand and never sold or transferred it to Instroke GmBH.
But without going into all the details they violated the agreement and tried to sell against me so I terminated their abiity to use the Instroke logo in the USA and took the production of the cases elsewhere.
I then sued them for infringement and won. THAT is why they had to stop using the Instroke brand in the USA. In fact "Stroke Sports" was also a violation of the judgement but I decided to let it slide rather than bring it before the judge again.
I sold the name in 2003.
That is the story in short form. I don't feel like going into detail for the long form but the fact is that I never cheated them in any way. But for what it is worth it is because of that ordeal that I REFUSE all offers of partnership in JB Cases.
I am the sole owner of JB Cases. The only other person who can control JB Cases is my wife. Outside of us there will NEVER be any other person who has a stake in JB Cases without offering us an obscene amount of money. And if that were to happen then that person would NOT have a controlling stake unless they wanted to buy us out for never-have-to-work-again money.
I highly doubt any of the cases you own came from Germany. The mass production ones were and are made in the Czech Republic. The ones sold at US outlets with the Instroke brand are made in Taiwan.
The Instroke cases sold in the USA are made in Taiwan were way better than the ones made in the Czech Republic when I sold out my stake in 2003/2004. No mass production Instrokes are or were made in Germany.
I stopped looking at Instroke quality years ago but the last time I looked the tubes had very little padding and that disappointed me.
This past Super Billiards Expo I looked at some Instroke models that are knockoffs of our Mason models and they were horrible quality in my opinion. The Cowboy models looked ok but without much padding in the tubes as I mentioned.
As far as I am concerned a Cowboy model Instroke is still a decent value but the protection level I developed is not there any more.
Everything I developed and learned while creating Instroke cases has gone into JB Cases and so much more. To the point that I can't even dream of making a mass production case any more because it would require me to dumb down the quality too much and no one wants to pay for the quality we build as a mass production case with the requisite 50% or more discounts demanded by the big wholesalers.
The price of one of our basic leather cases would need to be $800 for me to make a profit selling to the big wholesale outfits using the amount of labor we put into our cases now. That's one reason I won't make the same mistake that I made with Instroke by turning it into a common production item with no room for improvement. Instroke can literally now NOT improve because the market won't support the cost increase.
Anyway that's my perspective. Again, I DO consider the Cowboy model from Taiwan to be a decent case but understand you're NOT getting the same level of protection as when I owned the brand.
While looking for a new cue case at an exhibition, I came to the booth of the German company Stroke Sports. They told me that they were the original owner of the brand Instroke. They still sell their cue cases under this brand name exept in USA. Instroke Germany was founded 1995.
I was told that they had a sales agent in the US once that cheated them and had cheap cases produced in Asia and sold them also under the brand name Instroke. Thus, their reputation was severely dammaged.
To avoid further dammage, the German company Instroke founded a new brand name called Stroke Sports in 2003. This story is also published on their web page.
http://www.strokesports.de/de/ueber-uns/firmengeschichte.html
I can't comment on that story but some photos indicate that they even sponsored once the American Moscony Cup Team.
So if German Instrokes are a MYTH - they must be a good one, as I saw many cases on that booth.
Gerhard
(The German
Also,
The pictures in the "story" you link to are mine, with my hands in one of them.
They call me a "past worker" - um, no, I was the FOUNDER of the company and EVERY BIT of the design was done by me until I left Germany.
And the Mosconi Cup cases were designed by me and built using leather that I personally chose at the leather distributor's warehouse.
Sometimes it's worth it to get the other side of the story.
Often it would depend on the leather type or color whether we used chrome or brass. All of the Premier line was done in chrome. Most of the Cowboy line was done in brass.
The limiteds were either or depending on how we felt.
I just got a black Cowboy with brass hardware. It seems to me that the black should come with chrome hardware saving the brass for the brown leather cases.
I want to thank JB Cases for taking the time to personally respond to my thread. Its not ofton that such a response could be had. Thank you sir!
I want to thank JB Cases for taking the time to personally respond to my thread. Its not ofton that such a response could be had. Thank you sir!
Quite an interesting topic!
Your post made me read again through the text of their web page more carefully. The text there indeed does not state, that they are making the cases in Germany. They are just claiming, that they are controlling quality and production by their company in Germany. Now one would imply that the company is in Germany, and produces there and thus controls the quality. However, it is phrased in a way, that it is not sure that the production is in Germany.
On a second thought, I asked them on their booth for a change in design. They were not willing to do that. That also does not fit clearly into an image of a company with in house production.
What made their story fairly believable was the fact that their "former American worker" was just doing the sales in the US (according to their story). The possibility that an American citizen had a share or the complete posession of a German company was just not in the equation.
How did you come to Germany, John? Were you at the US service? Es pecially - how did you happen to open a company in Germany?
Thank you for telling us your side of the story.
Maybe one small detail, that I can add: Recently I purchased a used JB Case (could ot get in contact with JB on a short notice for a new one). That said JB case is indeed on a completely different quality level (much higher) than the instroke (stroke sports) cowboy cases that I held in my hands on that said exhibition.
Gerhard
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I was stationed in Schwaebisch Hall and when my time in the Air Force was over I opted to go back to Germany to live with my girlfriend. While there I wanted to modify the interior of a case I owned and then when I was done I decided to try and make the whole case. When done a friend asked me to make him one and I did and it just blossomed from there.
I had residency and with that I was allowed to register a company. When I took on partners in Ilshofen we created a GmBH, (LLC in english)