Instroke vs Instroke Germany

[pooldogue]

As i stated before i have owned both and sold both, actually when i first got one from Jon i had a quality issue and it took a long time to straighten out and i was going to sell the line but when i saw the quality i just couldnt sell them in all good conscience..............

 

[Timberly]

I'm not sure how old mine is or which instroke company it came from. The case was slightly used (barely used) when it was given to me. As far as which one it is... I don't know if you can tell by the insignia or not. All I know about mine is that it's a textured leather case.

Both the cover & pocket clasps have broken off. There have been a few people confirm that they've heard and/or had this problem with instroke cases.

Here are some pics of mine....

 

[ridewiththewind]

Timberly, it looks like you case might be one of the GEO Line. I believe that that line was started after the move to Tawain, but am not entirely sure. The plate around the clasps are much different than what is on mine. I know that John Barton has a case repair site, and he can get that case good as new for ya. I believe the URL is:

www.cuecaserepair.com

Lisa

 

[manwon]

From what I understand, the new Instroke, the one that is made in Taiwan is better than the original Instroke. This statement comes from John Barton, the former Instroke owner. Check out this discussion on: http://www.seyberts.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1163

My question to you or anyone is have you compared these cases?

I have compared them and the Taiwan cases due not stand up to the German made cases.

The attachments on the Asian import Instroke cases are of lower quality and the Leather is Thinner over all, especially on the Pockets and, either not fully cured or just lower in quality.

In a small amount of time the Asian Import cases loose their finish and begin to look worn down.

I own a pool hall / Pro-shop in Lakewood, Washington. The changes in these cases began immediately after instroke moved their operation.

The Omega cases today are made in the old Instroke factory in Germany to the same quality as the old Instroke cases, However do not be confused there is no Instroke Germany and Instroke Taiwan,there is only Instroke (made in Taiwan) and Omega (made in Germany)

Here is my personal Omega case.

View attachment 22549

View attachment 22550

View attachment 22551


PS. Lets face it when any company moves their manufacturing base to Asia, they are doing it not only to stay competitive. They are doing it to lower costs and increase profits, this is Business. However, do not be fooled, by lowering costs to increase profits you will also sacrifice quality and that is what happens with any of these companys moving thier operations to Asia. To prove my point, have the prices gone down since the move? Well there you go!!

Craig

 

[ridewiththewind]

My question to you or anyone is have you compared these cases?

I have compared them and the Taiwan cases due not stand up to the German made cases.

The attachments on the Asian import Instroke cases are of lower quality and the Leather is Thinner over all, especially on the Pockets and, either not fully cured or just lower in quality.

In a small amount of time the Asian Import cases loose their finish and begin to look worn down.

I own a pool hall / Pro-shop in Lakewood, Washington. The changes in these cases began immediately after instroke moved their operation.

The Omega cases today are made in the old Instroke factory in Germany to the same quality as the old Instroke cases, However do not be confused there is no Instroke Germany and Instroke Taiwan,there is only Instroke (made in Taiwan) and Omega (made in Germany)

Here is my personal Omega case.

View attachment 22549

View attachment 22550

View attachment 22551

Craig

Craig....

Is this a relatively new development, Omega taking over the German production? I ask because I have a StrokeSports case, and when you go to their website, they state that they were Instroke Germany and due to a lawsuit brought by Instroke Tawain, they are now known as StrokeSports. And, at least with their Premier Line, the cases are identical between the old Instroke made in Germany and the StrokeSports. Even the German Skai vinyl is identical. I own a couple of the old Instroke Premiers besides this StrokeSports Premier.

Lisa

 

[ridewiththewind]

Timberly, it looks like you case might be one of the GEO Line. I believe that that line was started after the move to Tawain, but am not entirely sure. The plate around the clasps are much different than what is on mine. I know that John Barton has a case repair site, and he can get that case good as new for ya. I believe the URL is:

www.cuecaserepair.com

Lisa

Timberly...well, that WAS a valid URL, but it not now. Sorry. However, if you go to the Instroke site, they do give you John Barton's address and phone, I believe. It's under "Warranty Repair".

Lisa

 

[manwon]

Craig....

Is this a relatively new development, Omega taking over the German production? I ask because I have a StrokeSports case, and when you go to their website, they state that they were Instroke Germany and due to a lawsuit brought by Instroke Tawain, they are now known as StrokeSports. And, at least with their Premier Line, the cases are identical between the old Instroke made in Germany and the StrokeSports. Even the German Skai vinyl is identical. I own a couple of the old Instroke Premiers besides this StrokeSports Premier.

Lisa

Hello Lisa, I am uncertain about your question because I have never done Business with StrokeSports.

But I can tell you this the Omega Cases that I have purchased in the past had tags on them that listed the cases price and it also had Instroke Gremany on the Tags.

The Instroke Germany was however, marked over with a Black Majic marker.

I also have compared my Original Instroke case to the Omega cases, there is no differents.

Craig

 

[Runtboy]

My question to you or anyone is have you compared these cases?

I have compared them and the Taiwan cases due not stand up to the German made cases.

The attachments on the Asian import Instroke cases are of lower quality and the Leather is Thinner over all, especially on the Pockets and, either not fully cured or just lower in quality.

In a small amount of time the Asian Import cases loose their finish and begin to look worn down.

I own a pool hall / Pro-shop in Lakewood, Washington. The changes in these cases began immediately after instroke moved their operation.

The Omega cases today are made in the old Instroke factory in Germany to the same quality as the old Instroke cases, However do not be confused there is no Instroke Germany and Instroke Taiwan,there is only Instroke (made in Taiwan) and Omega (made in Germany)

Craig

Well, I guess that answered my next question that I never even asked. When I was looking through the indycue website I say that some said Omega and some said Stroke Sports and I believe there was even an Instroke Germany in there. I thought that maybe the Omega cases were made for a specific retailer, but I guess that it's Instroke Germany's new name. Does it say that on their site somewhere? I couldn't find it. I only found a reference to the Stroke Sports name name change on this page: Stroke Sports History

Oh nevermind, I didn't see your reply to Lisa before I wrote that.

 

[manwon]

Well, I guess that answered my next question that I never even asked. When I was looking through the indycue website I say that some said Omega and some said Stroke Sports and I believe there was even an Instroke Germany in there. I thought that maybe the Omega cases were made for a specific retailer, but I guess that it's Instroke Germany's new name. Does it say that on their site somewhere? I couldn't find it. I only found a reference to the Stroke Sports name name change on this page: Stroke Sports History

Oh nevermind, I didn't see your reply to Lisa before I wrote that.

I suspect that who ever is still operating the old factory in Germany is making cases for other companies under that companies Brand Name as is the case with Omega.

I think the only important thing in all of this is the Qaulity of the finished product.

It is my responsibility to always try to get the best for my customers, and in doing this I have discovered what I said in my last posts.

Craig

 

[12squared]

I worked with John for a few months while Instroke was based in Greeley, CO about 4+ years ago. The easiest way to determine if an Instroke case was made in Germany or Taiwan is the design of the base of the latch on the pocket and lid. The German-made cases have the latch base that's shaped like an eye (seen in this thread), where the Taiwanese-made has a more square oval as its base. John changed the design of the latches because they were stronger than the originals used in Germany. In addition, the Taiwanese-made Instroke has heavier duty zippers.

John implemented these changes to improve the overall usage quality of the cases as the German case's latches and zippers would fail too often for John's taste. Whatever you think of John, he was the best person I've ever worked with or knew regarding customer service. Even after the split, John continued to repair or replace cases made in Germany, without getting reimbursed for much of it, at his own expense...just because it had the Instroke name on it. John wanted everyone to be happy, even to a fault.

It's true that the German leather was, and maybe still is, better quality than the Taiwanese, but I can tell you first hand there have been some excellent quality leather cases made in Taiwan...I have one! The latch design is still a problem because the latch sticks out, so if the case is bumped putting it in & out of your locker, in the car, or abused at the pool room, they break off. It's a bummer but other than that, Instroke cases have always provided the user the best protection for their cue investment. Fix the latch thing & you have one of the best cases you can find.

Note: There are many great cases out there today that use excellent quality leather, unique designs and offer great protection (and better latch systems) - Justis, Murnack & Whitten to name a few. But as far as pure function and protection, Instroke is/was hard to beat.

Just thought I'd share.

Dave

 

[Timberly]

John is a friend of mine (I'm letting him use my name in his book...if he ever finishes it )... I showed him the 1st broken clasp at Derby this yr (the 2nd just broke last week). He just nodded his head as if to say "I know..." There were a few others since John that have acknowledged the clasp problem... I do like the case & it's sturdy.. I just need to fix the clasps... I don't think John does any of that anymore... Yo John, are you reading any of this?!?!

I figure I'll just take it to a leather shoe/purse repair shop... that's what makes sense anyway... there are plenty of purses out there that use the same type of clasp. Does anyone have a different idea as to where I should take it?

I would love to have Jack make me a case but it's not in the financials... Jack, if you're reading this... one day my friend, one day... you make very nice cases. After seeing Jack's cases on the shoulder's of Shannon Daulton, Tony Stewart, Efren, Williebetmore, Tina Pawlowski, & a slew of others... I'd say Jack is a safe bet.

RWTW, you've got a beautiful custom cue... I was reading the thread about Ga Young Kim's case that Jack made and was thinking about your cue... I think it would look really sharp to have a case designed to compliment a custom cue and the style that you described would go beautifully with your cue.

 

[pooldogue]

I worked with John for a few months while Instroke was based in Greeley, CO about 4+ years ago. The easiest way to determine if an Instroke case was made in Germany or Taiwan is the design of the base of the latch on the pocket and lid. The German-made cases have the latch base that's shaped like an eye (seen in this thread), where the Taiwanese-made has a more square oval as its base. John changed the design of the latches because they were stronger than the originals used in Germany. In addition, the Taiwanese-made Instroke has heavier duty zippers.

John implemented these changes to improve the overall usage quality of the cases as the German case's latches and zippers would fail too often for John's taste. Whatever you think of John, he was the best person I've ever worked with or knew regarding customer service. Even after the split, John continued to repair or replace cases made in Germany, without getting reimbursed for much of it, at his own expense...just because it had the Instroke name on it. John wanted everyone to be happy, even to a fault.

It's true that the German leather was, and maybe still is, better quality than the Taiwanese, but I can tell you first hand there have been some excellent quality leather cases made in Taiwan...I have one! The latch design is still a problem because the latch sticks out, so if the case is bumped putting it in & out of your locker, in the car, or abused at the pool room, they break off. It's a bummer but other than that, Instroke cases have always provided the user the best protection for their cue investment. Fix the latch thing & you have one of the best cases you can find.

Note: There are many great cases out there today that use excellent quality leather, unique designs and offer great protection (and better latch systems) - Justis, Munack & Whitten to name a few. But as far as pure function and protection, Instroke is/was hard to beat.

Just thought I'd share.

Dave

I would disagree greatly with some of youre statements as to the quality even being close to the german made cases as i found out !!!! Leather was very thin and didnt wear or hold up to everyday use and also the biggest problem was the very, very thin hard plastic tubing they used in the cue holding tubes that broke frequently.... My case went to Jon directly 2 times and each time came back worse or with a different problem everytime...... Now thats great customer service to someone whos becoming a distributor of his products??????? I liked Jon from the start and dont have anything bad to say about him but to say the quality of his Tiawanese cases against the "ORIGINAL" German made cases would be a gross misconception in my eyes......... Hell i have a friend i sold one of his cases to that uses it frequently and pretty much has the case duck taped together so his cues dont fall out ......... In my eyes i would rather pay 400.00 for a geat made case that will last than 100.00 for a case that doesnt last 1 year, in other words you pay for what you get!!!!!!

 

[12squared]

I would disagree greatly with some of youre statements as to the quality even being close to the german made cases as i found out !!!! Leather was very thin and didnt wear or hold up to everyday use and also the biggest problem was the very, very thin hard plastic tubing they used in the cue holding tubes that broke frequently.... My case went to Jon directly 2 times and each time came back worse or with a different problem everytime...... Now thats great customer service to someone whos becoming a distributor of his products??????? I liked Jon from the start and dont have anything bad to say about him but to say the quality of his Tiawanese cases against the "ORIGINAL" German made cases would be a gross misconception in my eyes......... Hell i have a friend i sold one of his cases to that uses it frequently and pretty much has the case duck taped together so his cues dont fall out ......... In my eyes i would rather pay 400.00 for a geat made case that will last than 100.00 for a case that doesnt last 1 year, in other words you pay for what you get!!!!!!

In the words of Frank Barone from 'Everybody Loves Raymond', "Holy Crap!". I can only speak for the few months I worked with John, what I saw first hand, and the many cases I have owned. The quality was nothing like you described and his customer service was impecable. The only issues I ever ran across was the latches if bumped or misused & an occassional bunching of material in the tube that holds the butt so when you put the butt in with the joints side up, it would get a little stuck so you would have to softly twist it out. John happily fixed all cases that were in need. It was a pleasure to watch.

As a former employee (even though very short), sorry you and your customers had that experience, maybe something has changed...sounds like Instroke wanted to lighten the weight of the case by using thinner tubes and thinner leather (don't know this first hand) and maybe came up a little short by doing so? Thanks for sharing your experience and again, sorry.

Dave

 

[pooldogue]

In the words of Frank Barone from 'Everybody Loves Raymond', "Holy Crap!". I can only speak for the few months I worked with John, what I saw first hand, and the many cases I have owned. The quality was nothing like you described and his customer service was impecable. The only issues I ever ran across was the latches if bumped or misused & an occassional bunching of material in the tube that holds the butt so when you put the butt in with the joints side up, it would get a little stuck so you would have to softly twist it out. John happily fixed all cases that were in need. It was a pleasure to watch.

As a former employee (even though very short), sorry you and your customers had that experience, maybe something has changed...sounds like Instroke wanted to lighten the weight of the case by using thinner tubes and thinner leather (don't know this first hand) and maybe came up a little short by doing so? Thanks for sharing your experience and again, sorry.

Dave

Hey man no need to be sorry it isnt youre fault , but thanks for youre experiences and let everyone take what they will from our experiences and let them draw their own conclusions..........

 

[manwon]

Hey man no need to be sorry it isnt youre fault , but thanks for youre experiences and let everyone take what they will from our experiences and let them draw their own conclusions..........

I got your back Brother!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[12squared]

Hey man no need to be sorry it isnt youre fault , but thanks for youre experiences and let everyone take what they will from our experiences and let them draw their own conclusions..........

Agreed .

 

[X Breaker]

In my limited experience with leather cases such as Flowers, Instroke, Swift, Justis, Whitten, and some others, I feel that the clasp problem is not one which is limited to Instroke; it is more a common problem shared by cases with the same design.

Richard

 

[Timberly]

In my limited experience with leather cases such as Flowers, Instroke, Swift, Justis, Whitten, and some others, I feel that the clasp problem is not one which is limited to Instroke; it is more a common problem shared by cases with the same design.

Richard

This is the 1st case I've ever had with this kind of clasp... the only other case I've had was a porper that used a zipper and an Its George case that uses the sliding lock thingy. I just know that when I've mentioned the "clasp breaking on my case" the 1st thing people ask is if it's an instroke.

My good buddy ScottR was kind enough to provide me with a case that he wasn't using... It's a black imperial that's identicle to my instroke and has the same clasps.... I like it better than my instroke... it's MUCH lighter than the instroke. Thanks Scott, you rock!

 

[JB Cases]

I cannot believe that I never saw this thread.

Well, shit, lots of misinformation in here, even from some of my friends. This speaks to the old adage that goes there are 3 sides to every story, his hers and the truth.

So even though this thread is super old I feel like setting a few things straight.

1. Why did Instroke split?
Without going into great detail the answer is because my former partner didn't adhere to the agreement we made to split the territory and let me handle sales in America. A split became necessary and I asserted my right to the trademark and started production in Taiwan with an established case maker there. Production model Instroke cases were never made in Germany nor were they advertised as such. They were made in the Czech Republic under my direction until I left to start the United States operation. The cases were to continue being made only with my specifications but my former partner changed those instructions against my will and against our agreement. This meant that I had to seek other means of production.

I ended up in Taiwan with a company that had approached us years earlier proposing to produce cases for us. The beginning production run did have a few issues but by the second one the quality was as good or better than the cases produced by the Czech factory.

2. Quality - after the initial run the few issues that the new factory had were quickly corrected and the cases were made to the same standards that I had specified for the Czech made cases with one very important improvement. We created the Diamond latch which almost eliminated the problems associated with the use of purse latches on cue cases.

Other than that the cases were nearly identical in build and material quality to the ones made in the Czech republic. At that time I wasn't focused on new models but instead on making sure that the existing models were made to my satisfaction with attention to detail and durability.

That's really it. I created Instroke on my own without even knowing how to use a sewing machine. Over the years I had many wonderful experiences and met thousands of awesome people. And I had some crappy experiences as well in the process of learning how "business" is done.

In the end I am happy that this brand endures. I don't know the current status of either the German company, the Czech production or the taiwanese production. I see that Instroke cases are still being sold in America and I assume that those cases are made by the Taiwanese company.

Last time I picked one up at a show I noticed that the padding I put inside the tubes had been dramatically reduced or removed and I guess that was done to accommodate the rise in rubber grips on cues. Otherwise the case appeared to be made in pretty much the same way that I designed it all the way back in the early 90s with the improvements I made in the early 2000s.

I was all the way done with the Instroke brand by 2005. I sold my remaining interest in the brand and have had no more contact with my former partners since then.

My new company, JB Cases started in 2007 in my apartment in China and I have made substantial improvements in cue case design since then. Now we have a workshop that is fully owned by us where 25 people are busy making truly custom cases in a wide range of models.

I have learned my lesson about taking on partners and JB Cases will remain independent as long as I have anything to say about it or unless someone offers me ridiculous money to buy in under conditions that allow them zero legal way to tell me how to make and distribute cases.

So that's the short version. Thank you again to all of those who have supported me throughout my case making journey from 1991 through today and into the future.

 

[JT897]

I cannot believe that I never saw this thread.

Well, shit, lots of misinformation in here, even from some of my friends. This speaks to the old adage that goes there are 3 sides to every story, his hers and the truth.

So even though this thread is super old I feel like setting a few things straight.

1. Why did Instroke split?
Without going into great detail the answer is because my former partner didn't adhere to the agreement we made to split the territory and let me handle sales in America. A split became necessary and I asserted my right to the trademark and started production in Taiwan with an established case maker there. Production model Instroke cases were never made in Germany nor were they advertised as such. They were made in the Czech Republic under my direction until I left to start the United States operation. The cases were to continue being made only with my specifications but my former partner changed those instructions against my will and against our agreement. This meant that I had to seek other means of production.

I ended up in Taiwan with a company that had approached us years earlier proposing to produce cases for us. The beginning production run did have a few issues but by the second one the quality was as good or better than the cases produced by the Czech factory.

2. Quality - after the initial run the few issues that the new factory had were quickly corrected and the cases were made to the same standards that I had specified for the Czech made cases with one very important improvement. We created the Diamond latch which almost eliminated the problems associated with the use of purse latches on cue cases.

Other than that the cases were nearly identical in build and material quality to the ones made in the Czech republic. At that time I wasn't focused on new models but instead on making sure that the existing models were made to my satisfaction with attention to detail and durability.

That's really it. I created Instroke on my own without even knowing how to use a sewing machine. Over the years I had many wonderful experiences and met thousands of awesome people. And I had some crappy experiences as well in the process of learning how "business" is done.

In the end I am happy that this brand endures. I don't know the current status of either the German company, the Czech production or the taiwanese production. I see that Instroke cases are still being sold in America and I assume that those cases are made by the Taiwanese company.

Last time I picked one up at a show I noticed that the padding I put inside the tubes had been dramatically reduced or removed and I guess that was done to accommodate the rise in rubber grips on cues. Otherwise the case appeared to be made in pretty much the same way that I designed it all the way back in the early 90s with the improvements I made in the early 2000s.

I was all the way done with the Instroke brand by 2005. I sold my remaining interest in the brand and have had no more contact with my former partners since then.

My new company, JB Cases started in 2007 in my apartment in China and I have made substantial improvements in cue case design since then. Now we have a workshop that is fully owned by us where 25 people are busy making truly custom cases in a wide range of models.

I have learned my lesson about taking on partners and JB Cases will remain independent as long as I have anything to say about it or unless someone offers me ridiculous money to buy in under conditions that allow them zero legal way to tell me how to make and distribute cases.

So that's the short version. Thank you again to all of those who have supported me throughout my case making journey from 1991 through today and into the future.

So I have a case that says StrokeSports on the side. Does that mean it is one made by the Czech factory?