INSTRUCTORS: What have you learned?

CrossSideLarry said:
This is what I have learned from each.

My takeaway was learning many well kept secrets including: distributing the weight of the cue ball to control deflection, There is no way, any player who like myself took their lumps and emptied their wallets in the process just to learn one nugget will publish such info on a public website. My advice is simple: If you desire to learn these things, find a hustler and get up a game. Ask beforehand, if during the course of the game, you see him do something, you would like to better understand, will he share it with you? Cross-Side-Larry
"Learn from the best, and beat the rest"

PS: It is my understanding that Larry Nevel has made a similar offer as Harry Sexton did with me. FIve dollars a game and a show & tell along the way!
IMO, that is a deal!

Good answer, Larry.
One of your earned secrets intrigues me and while I don't expect for you to give up the whole enchilada, would you mind explaining what "distributing the weight of the cue ball to control deflection", means and does.

And like everyone else, I would love to know how to control deflection in ways other than using a low deflection cue. I don't currently use a low deflection cue but have tried in the past.

BTW, I try to never squander an opportunity to play cheap pool with a pro. Besides learning some of their "secrets", you have a great time playing top players. It is a good "deal".

Thanks,
JoeyA
 
cdavis9771 said:
If your advice works then you should be a good player.That is if you practice what you preach right?

ABSOLUTELY!!! My choice is to spend my time in the pool room teaching, which leaves me very little time to practice. I suppose I could quit teaching, cut out all the time wasted studying, learning new concepts, learning new ways to teach them, and just practice. I have made the choice to be a better teacher than a better player. Many of the students I have worked with came to me as average players. They practiced the things we worked on, and are now better players than I. That is how I measure my success. I'm 54 years old, and have no desire to give up everything to be a professional pool player. I couldn't afford to take the pay cut! :eek: (My game isn't too shabby, considering I might spend a couple of hours a week working on it. It's good enough for me.) You see, I love what I do...helping other players reach their goals. I enjoy teaching just as much, if not more, than competition.
Steve
 
How to distribute the weight of the cueball...

JoeyA said:
Good answer, Larry.
One of your earned secrets intrigues me and while I don't expect for you to give up the whole enchilada, would you mind explaining what "distributing the weight of the cue ball to control deflection", means and does.

Thanks,
JoeyA

OK, why not.... I learned this technique from Mark Wilson, a pro player of many years and a real class guy who I understand now owns and operates a pool hall in the midwest (I believe in St. Louis?) I knew Mark back in the late eighties and early nineties. Curiously enough, I met him at a river boat casino in Bettendorf, Iowa, playing Texas Hold Em. I must say, Mark taught me a lot more than what I will share here but to offer more without consulting Mark first would not be right. Also, Mike taught many top players out of the Quad Cities including Jon Kuchero, and the Bowman brothers, Jessie and Jamie, and not wanting to give up too much here, take this nugget as a "freebee" and if you want more, contact Mark:


A standard cueball weighs six ounces and if you were able to slice it in half on a vertical plane, what would happen?

You are right if you say both halves would fall onto their sides like a turtle falling on it's back. Knowing this, then gives insight into the technique to control cueball deflection. Mind you, I did not say, "eliminate deflection". Top players do not need to resort to low deflection shafts for they know how to "control deflection" and make it work to their advantage when needed.

A simple way to learn the tecnique without getting steeped in physics is through practice. OK, you say, "what and how do I practice?

Start by recognizing that cueing right of the vertical center of the cueball distributes more cueball weight to the left and in addition, creates cueball side spin referred to as right english. The converse is true if cueing to the left of the vertical center, wherein; the cueball weight is now distributed to the right and the cueball side spin would be referred to as left english. High or low english does not affect the weight distribution though it does create a differing spin axis. That being an entirely different subject that you can find numerous articles written on by known expert teachers such as Robert Byrne, let us focus strictly on the weight distribution for once understood and mastered, your game will improve considerably. By the way, before I forget, Mark told me he learned this from his long time close personal friend, Efren Reyes.

Continuing then..., after impact from the cue, the cueball takes an immediate lurch in the direction of the more heavily weighted side. In a visual sense, think of cueing two tips right and envision the weight distribution: If you say, 5.2 ounces left and .08 ounces right, (approx.) you are getting the picture. If you say, the cueball then will take an immediate lurch to the left, you have got the principal in your mind.

Naturally their are lots of other variables to deal with, including but not limited to, "scoot" "speed" "friction", etc. Again, not wanting to make this more difficult to understand in concept than what is intended to impart the technique, suffice to say that when practicing long or medium cut shots take into account cueball weight distribution. The famed bank pool expert and author of "Banking With The Beard", Freddy Bentivegna, points out on page 40of his book, what he calls "The Golden Nugget". In a similar sense, once you are able to determine based on your stroke speed how much of a directional change takes place on a long shot vs medium shot, your pocketing skills will go up dramatically. In other words learn where to aim on the object ball by factoring the weight distribution of the cueball. You will soon find in many extreme cut situations the length of the table, you will actually be aiming on a horizontal plane off the object ball entirely. When you can do this with consistent positive results, you will have mastered the technique.

In closing, may I say this, "I do not claim to be a physics expert such as Bob Jewett and others, however, I do believe that common sense dictates a "low deflection" shaft when used without knowledge of the above, is near of little value". I am sure the manufacturers of such shafts would dispute such a statement but then I would ask, "did the likes of Mosconi, Hoppe, Greenleaf, Caras, Lassiter", use low deflection shafts or did they understand and master this concept?

You be the judge!

Cross-Side-Larry


"Learn from the best, and beat the rest"
 
CrossSideLarry said:
OK, why not.... I learned this technique from Mark Wilson, a pro player of many years and a real class guy who I understand now owns and operates a pool hall in the midwest (I believe in St. Louis?) I knew Mark back in the late eighties and early nineties. Curiously enough, I met him at a river boat casino in Bettendorf, Iowa, playing Texas Hold Em. I must say, Mark taught me a lot more than what I will share here but to offer more without consulting Mark first would not be right. Also, Mike taught many top players out of the Quad Cities including Jon Kuchero, and the Bowman brothers, Jessie and Jamie, and not wanting to give up too much here, take this nugget as a "freebee" and if you want more, contact Mark:


A standard cueball weighs six ounces and if you were able to slice it in half on a vertical plane, what would happen?

You are right if you say both halves would fall onto their sides like a turtle falling on it's back. Knowing this, then gives insight into the technique to control cueball deflection. Mind you, I did not say, "eliminate deflection". Top players do not need to resort to low deflection shafts for they know how to "control deflection" and make it work to their advantage when needed.

A simple way to learn the tecnique without getting steeped in physics is through practice. OK, you say, "what and how do I practice?

Start by recognizing that cueing right of the vertical center of the cueball distributes more cueball weight to the left and in addition, creates cueball side spin referred to as right english. The converse is true if cueing to the left of the vertical center, wherein; the cueball weight is now distributed to the right and the cueball side spin would be referred to as left english. High or low english does not affect the weight distribution though it does create a differing spin axis. That being an entirely different subject that you can find numerous articles written on by known expert teachers such as Robert Byrne, let us focus strictly on the weight distribution for once understood and mastered, your game will improve considerably. By the way, before I forget, Mark told me he learned this from his long time close personal friend, Efren Reyes.

Continuing then..., after impact from the cue, the cueball takes an immediate lurch in the direction of the more heavily weighted side. In a visual sense, think of cueing two tips right and envision the weight distribution: If you say, 5.2 ounces left and .08 ounces right, (approx.) you are getting the picture. If you say, the cueball then will take an immediate lurch to the left, you have got the principal in your mind.

Naturally their are lots of other variables to deal with, including but not limited to, "scoot" "speed" "friction", etc. Again, not wanting to make this more difficult to understand in concept than what is intended to impart the technique, suffice to say that when practicing long or medium cut shots take into account cueball weight distribution. The famed bank pool expert and author of "Banking With The Beard", Freddy Bentivegna, points out on page 40of his book, what he calls "The Golden Nugget". In a similar sense, once you are able to determine based on your stroke speed how much of a directional change takes place on a long shot vs medium shot, your pocketing skills will go up dramatically. In other words learn where to aim on the object ball by factoring the weight distribution of the cueball. You will soon find in many extreme cut situations the length of the table, you will actually be aiming on a horizontal plane off the object ball entirely. When you can do this with consistent positive results, you will have mastered the technique.

In closing, may I say this, "I do not claim to be a physics expert such as Bob Jewett and others, however, I do believe that common sense dictates a "low deflection" shaft when used without knowledge of the above, is near of little value". I am sure the manufacturers of such shafts would dispute such a statement but then I would ask, "did the likes of Mosconi, Hoppe, Greenleaf, Caras, Lassiter", use low deflection shafts or did they understand and master this concept?

You be the judge!

Cross-Side-Larry


"Learn from the best, and beat the rest"

So are you saying that they were simply talking about compensating for and controlling deflection?
 
I miss that ratty old pool hall!

ShootingArts said:
Reminds me of a pool hall owner I knew back in the early seventies. He was affronted when someone wanted straight lessons, he felt like they just wanted him to hand over all he had learned through years of work and paying his dues across the table. He said he would give them all the lessons they wanted at ten a game. :D

He liked kids that were crazy about the game though and would often come over to my table to show "the person I was playing with" one thing and go on about his way. His way of showing me things without making a point of it and I would often use it in the next day or two and look over his way afterwards to see a grin. I sure miss that ratty old pool hall and the various owners and managers.

Hu

I hear you dude!

Cross Side Larry
 
Jal said:
Let's take a specific example.

I'll bet that many very good players believe that you can "gain an angle" by using inside english. Possibly some pros believe this too. But it turns out not to be true unless the cueball and object ball are very close to each other, as within and inch or so.


Jim

uhhh, never mind, now I think I understand what you're saying.

Chris
 
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I once asked Nick Varner how to practice. He said if your basics are right then work on the weakest part of your game,till it becomes a better part of your game. For the record I'm not an instructor.I'm just learning as I go. I do believe in lessons help your game out in the long run.
 
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