Intentional hit on 9 ball with no attempt to touch cue ball

jchance

jchance

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey, Joe from France here.

Just got out of a regional 9 ball tournament and had an odd situation come up in a match.

I played a perfect safety, tying up the cue ball behind a couple of balls so the opponent had to shoot a jacked up 2 rail kick up and down the table to contact the lowest number ball (the 2).

The 9 was also near the side pocket, such that with ball in hand I would have an easy 2-9 combo to win the rack.

My opponent didn't try to play the cue ball..in fact he just used his cue to hit the 9 into the side pocket.

I immediately thought that should be loss of rack for bad sportsmanship but my opponent said he didn't know what the call was.

I called the tournament director over and he said it was a BIH foul. Because he hadn't seen the shot, he said he could not give loss of rack, even though my opponent admitted to what he did. He gave him a warning and that was it.

I had to respect the tournament director's decision but now looking back, I am bitter especially as I lost that rack and the match!

Did the tournament director make the right call? Should I have argued my case more? Would you have refused to play in that situation?

Tactical fouls can be interesting in pool, in the case of tying up a ball. but surely we have to draw the line so a player has to at least attempt to hit the cue ball?! Otherwise it leaves the door open for all kinds of nonsense.
 
I would say loss of game or at very least BIH with the 9ball spotted from where he shot it from.
 
bigchiefnd said:
I would say loss of game or at very least BIH with the 9ball spotted from where he shot it from.
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It is treated similar to a ball accidentally moved by a playe'rs cue. The opponent gets BIH due to the foul and the choice of having the ball placed back where it was on the table.
 
I think it should be loss of game also. If you are allowed to intentionally shoot object balls directly why even try to get out of a tough safety? Just poke object balls around to make opponents run out as tough as possible, heck, just pick up the object balls and set them where you want. Where does it end if you are allowed to shoot directly at an object ball?:confused:
 
Walkermine said:
It is treated similar to a ball accidentally moved by a playe'rs cue. The opponent gets BIH due to the foul and the choice of having the ball placed back where it was on the table.
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I agree. This would ensure absolutely no benefit for someone to do something like that again. Also, the incoming player is who decides exactly where to replace the fouled ball.
 
I think this is a normal foul. It's not even uncommon.

Oops - my mistake... I thought he used the cue ball.

pj
chgo
 
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If I was tournament director, I would establish that it was intentional.
If it was, disqualification.
 
jchance said:
[...]

Tactical fouls can be interesting in pool, in the case of tying up a ball. but surely we have to draw the line so a player has to at least attempt to hit the cue ball?! Otherwise it leaves the door open for all kinds of nonsense.
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Yes. Unsportsmanship loos of game
 
the right rules is if you move just one ball it goes back where it was. unless you are playing object ball fouls or he hits the cueball into it. then its ball in hand.

why would it be loss of game he didnt know that and the mistake can be corrected easily.
if a foul is a must, then so be it. spot the nine back and ball in hand.
 
jchance said:
Hey, Joe from France here.

Just got out of a regional 9 ball tournament and had an odd situation come up in a match.

I played a perfect safety, tying up the cue ball behind a couple of balls so the opponent had to shoot a jacked up 2 rail kick up and down the table to contact the lowest number ball (the 2).

The 9 was also near the side pocket, such that with ball in hand I would have an easy 2-9 combo to win the rack.

My opponent didn't try to play the cue ball..in fact he just used his cue to hit the 9 into the side pocket.

I immediately thought that should be loss of rack for bad sportsmanship but my opponent said he didn't know what the call was.

I called the tournament director over and he said it was a BIH foul. Because he hadn't seen the shot, he said he could not give loss of rack, even though my opponent admitted to what he did. He gave him a warning and that was it.

I had to respect the tournament director's decision but now looking back, I am bitter especially as I lost that rack and the match!

Did the tournament director make the right call? Should I have argued my case more? Would you have refused to play in that situation?

Tactical fouls can be interesting in pool, in the case of tying up a ball. but surely we have to draw the line so a player has to at least attempt to hit the cue ball?! Otherwise it leaves the door open for all kinds of nonsense.
Click to expand...

I have to change what I said, I did not realize he didn't use the cue ball and just pushed it in with his stick. I would say it is a foul and the balls are returned as close to their original positions as possible. If it is fouls on the cue ball only the ball is replaced in it's original position. and he has to make a legal shot.
 
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Was it all ball fouls or Cue ball fouls only? Or was the Tournament under one of the League rules.

Under most leagues and Cue Ball fouls only. If one ball is moved it is put back and the shooter still must perform a legal stroke on the cue ball (some league rules allow the shooter to passing a ball in hand without shooting others do not).

And if a pay table the offender would have to pay to recover the ball.

It could also be considered conceding the rack since he racked the winning ball.

If not a Sportsman ship warring should have been issued with 9 replaced as close as possible to original position and player made to shoot.
 
I'm actually shocked by a couple of the responses on this and not sure if they are even being serious. This is clearly an unsportsmanlike foul and loss of game to intentionally shoot a ball that is not the cue ball.
 
maha said:
the right rules is if you move just one ball it goes back where it was. unless you are playing object ball fouls or he hits the cueball into it. then its ball in hand.

why would it be loss of game he didnt know that and the mistake can be corrected easily.
if a foul is a must, then so be it. spot the nine back and ball in hand.
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It wasn't a mistake that's the whole point.......
 
Man, that's Way UNSPORTSMANLIKE.
This " player " imho" ,should HAVE not only gotten the directors warning, but of course, it's automatically bih, replace the 9 as close as can be then go on and make the combo.!!!
Otherwise, id dq this 'smart guy. !!! Ive never came across this situation, either in tournament play or just matching up.
I'll Guarantee that if he pulled that ACT in a gambling situation, he'd think 3x bfor he pulled that b.s. he might have a hard time getting out of the room. Period.
Even in a poolhall, most ppl would probably vote that at least that he'd forfeit at LEAST that game.
Better luck next time, hope you get/make your own rolls !!! Grin. !

kaye
 
Clear unsportsmanlike act. Loss of that rack plus warning.
Also tournament director was like little girl with that decision. That kind decisions courage peoples pull off these kind stupid s**t
 
There are many in this thread who seem amazed that this is not considered unsportsmanlike.....and yet walk into any bar in America with a barbox and try to play a legal strategic safety against the locals and you'll be accused of many unpleasant things.

"Unsportsmanlike" conduct can be very subjective.

I think the player who pocketed the 9 ball did what he felt was his best strategic option within the rules. You cannot condemn him for that. After all the object of the game is to win....it is not to cater to the subjective opinions of others.

We don't cry "unsportsmanlike" conduct in one pocket when a player intentionally pots his opponent's ball hanging in the mouth of the pocket and then intentionally scratches so that the pocketed ball has to be spotted subsequently robbing his opponent of the point.

That doesn't seem fair.....why don't we label that as unsportsmanlike?

The reason is that it should never be considered unsportsmanlike to play a smart game of pool within the rules.
 
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well RRick33 nice post but WRONG. That was NOT a shot inside the rules on the 9 ball but yes the one pocket example was with in the rules. If the player had shot the 9 in with the cue ball that would be spot the 9 and ball in hand.

BUT he shot the nine with his cue stick. Since only 1 ball was disturbed it is placed back as close as possible to the original position and the player made to play a shot with the cue ball.

OR in the judgment of the official, the TD, it could have been conceding the game. In some venues and leagues conceding can cost you another game as well.

But it was handled incorrectly by spotting the 9. Even if awarded ball in hand the 9 should have been replaced as close as possible to it's original position.
 
Intentionally shooting the nine ball in the pocket is loss of game. It is treated as a concession of the game. Really no different than someone taking their cue and raking the balls. Disturb the balls intentionally and you've conceded that game.
 
Hello Joe from France,

Do you know what rule set is being used? If not, can you provide a link to the regional tournament, so we can try to determine what rules were being used.

Without knowing the rule set being used, it could likely lead to unnecessary debate, rather than towards consensus interpretation that would give you a helpful answer.

To understand my point, a few years back I was asked by two players to settle an argument on 8-ball. One player believed he won because he made the 8-ball on the break, while the other disagreed. I asked which 8-ball rule set did they mutually agreed using? For example, if they were playing by APA rules, this would be an automatic win. Whereas, BCA rules, it could mean the 8-ball would be re-spotted.

Since you're from France, I'll take a guess that you may be using World Standardize Rules as a basis, with amendments made to accommodate the regional tournament (house rules).

http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/index.asp?id=117&pagetype=rules

Here is the section on Unsportsmanlike conduct, and see if any of the rules apply.
http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/index.asp?id=117&pagetype=rules#6.16

6.16 Unsportsmanlike Conduct
The normal penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct is the same as for a serious foul, but the referee may impose a penalty depending on his judgment of the conduct. Among other penalties possible are a warning; a standard-foul penalty, which will count as part of a three-foul sequence if applicable; a serious-foul penalty; loss of a rack, set or match; ejection from the competition possibly with forfeiture of all prizes, trophies and standings points.
Unsportsmanlike conduct is any intentional behavior that brings disrepute to the sport or which disrupts or changes the game to the extent that it cannot be played fairly. It includes
(a) distracting the opponent;
(b) changing the position of the balls in play other than by a shot;
(c) playing a shot by intentionally miscuing;
(d) continuing to play after a foul has been called or play has been suspended;
(e) practicing during a match;
(f) marking the table;
(g) delay of the game; and
(h) using equipment inappropriately.
 
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