interesting stroke discovery
- Thread starter wigglybridge
- Start date
Mylady,
would you be so pleased and upload a video from it:grin-square:
Ingo, I learned young. This was my teacher.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC_nypfbZLQ&feature=related
Just my 2 cents worth, if you don't mind me chirping in. You don't look comfortable to me during your shot therefore causing some unnecessary movement during your stroke. It's almost like your body and your cue are on different natural lines, and your steering the cue into the LINE. Try something very simple. Stand behind the shot with your feet shoulder width apart, hands down at your side standing straight, but very relaxed. If you are right handed hold the cue at the balance point in your right hand at your side with the cue pointing forward. Now close your eyes, and relax your right arm, and hand. The cue should turn inward towards your body. When it stops you are at your natural position. Now pivot your body to bring the cue in line with your shot keeping the same cue/body angle you had when you were relaxed. Slide in behind the CB and try some shots.
Hey Tim, that makes a whole lot of sense, is clearly described in a way i can understand and implement, and i haven't heard setup described that way before. it would seem this would reduce tendencies to move your arm/elbow, since they'd be in a more natural position to start with.
just to back up: i Was a bit uncomfortable, because this is a big change in my stance that i've just been trying for a little while. my previous stance had my body Way out to the left of the shot line, and i was leaning across to reach the line. all that led to a McReady/Ortmann sidearm kinda thing, and i've just been working to straighten out my stance that past few weeks. combining that with some of the Great suggestions here puts me in a pretty unfamiliar place, which is why you can see me jockeying around, checking my elbow verticality, etc. it's a lot for me to digest!!!
but i like the way you put this, it seems a firm foundation for determining the natural relationship between any one person's feet and the line of the shot. i'll see if i can add that to the stack of things to remember, although i'm feeling a bit overloaded already!
i don't want to give up the "coming into the shot from behind" thing that has helped my alignment so much, so i'm wondering how best to combine your suggestion with that. the two ways that occur to me off the bat are (1) use your idea to set a frame behind the shot, then try to maintain that as i come into it, and (2) come into the shot as before, and then check alignment with your approach & fine tune if necessary.
just off the top of my head, it seems to me that (1) would be better, since i don't want to lose that focus on the overall aiming that i get from behind the shot.
man, there's so much food for thought here. i really had no idea when this thread started that it would lead all these places!
just to back up: i Was a bit uncomfortable, because this is a big change in my stance that i've just been trying for a little while. my previous stance had my body Way out to the left of the shot line, and i was leaning across to reach the line. all that led to a McReady/Ortmann sidearm kinda thing, and i've just been working to straighten out my stance that past few weeks. combining that with some of the Great suggestions here puts me in a pretty unfamiliar place, which is why you can see me jockeying around, checking my elbow verticality, etc. it's a lot for me to digest!!!
but i like the way you put this, it seems a firm foundation for determining the natural relationship between any one person's feet and the line of the shot. i'll see if i can add that to the stack of things to remember, although i'm feeling a bit overloaded already!
i don't want to give up the "coming into the shot from behind" thing that has helped my alignment so much, so i'm wondering how best to combine your suggestion with that. the two ways that occur to me off the bat are (1) use your idea to set a frame behind the shot, then try to maintain that as i come into it, and (2) come into the shot as before, and then check alignment with your approach & fine tune if necessary.
just off the top of my head, it seems to me that (1) would be better, since i don't want to lose that focus on the overall aiming that i get from behind the shot.
man, there's so much food for thought here. i really had no idea when this thread started that it would lead all these places!
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hmmm. well, that experiment didn't go so well. tried using Tim's alignment technique for about 1.25 hours tonight, but it seems like a step backwards. was frequently missing to the right.
i think i have enough on my plate right now with the new stance Matt has me in, stepping into the shot á la Dave, gripping per various folks, and following through per Fran!
i'm curious about 2 things, though:
(1) Tim, aside from my shuffling about on some shots in that video, what about my stroke itself looked odd?
(2) it would seem that an open snooker stance couldn't be achieved with this method, true?
i think i have enough on my plate right now with the new stance Matt has me in, stepping into the shot á la Dave, gripping per various folks, and following through per Fran!
i'm curious about 2 things, though:
(1) Tim, aside from my shuffling about on some shots in that video, what about my stroke itself looked odd?
(2) it would seem that an open snooker stance couldn't be achieved with this method, true?
The German video is exactly what I was talking about in another thread (hadn't seen it, but it's common advice). It's utility is to find the "natural point of aim" for your foot alignment. It's different for everybody. How steep or narrow this angle is depends on how your muscles line up naturally in your shoulder, arm and forearm. It doesn't work well if you want a closed, more squared up snooker stance, but if you like that you're better off doing it with at least three points of contact (bridge hand, stroke hand, pectoral/side of chest or chin) to keep the stroke straight.
This is what I do...Once you figure out the angle of your feet, then start over holding your cue in your right hand, lock your hand into your hip, lining the cue like a joust and line the cue pointed up along the aiming line of your shot (you might crank your head just a smidge to the right to get your nose over your right toe to see the shot). Then step forward with your left foot into the shot (your right foot/big toe is on the aiming line) until your foot placement angle is reached. As you do your aiming strokes for PSR, it should feel effortless, like butter...actually unnatural to wiggle the tip.
Your stroke got A LOT better throughout this posting videos process...one little thing I noticed is where your tip ends up on the follow through, usually a little off to the right, especially if the shot rattled or missed. You'll get a lot better improvement shooting intermediate stop shots (you'll want zero post contact cue ball drift right or left), or freezing an object ball against the rail and hitting it with center ball, trying to get the cue ball to bounce back along an absolutely straight line. Your stroke can't lie to you then....
This is what I do...Once you figure out the angle of your feet, then start over holding your cue in your right hand, lock your hand into your hip, lining the cue like a joust and line the cue pointed up along the aiming line of your shot (you might crank your head just a smidge to the right to get your nose over your right toe to see the shot). Then step forward with your left foot into the shot (your right foot/big toe is on the aiming line) until your foot placement angle is reached. As you do your aiming strokes for PSR, it should feel effortless, like butter...actually unnatural to wiggle the tip.
Your stroke got A LOT better throughout this posting videos process...one little thing I noticed is where your tip ends up on the follow through, usually a little off to the right, especially if the shot rattled or missed. You'll get a lot better improvement shooting intermediate stop shots (you'll want zero post contact cue ball drift right or left), or freezing an object ball against the rail and hitting it with center ball, trying to get the cue ball to bounce back along an absolutely straight line. Your stroke can't lie to you then....
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Why I suggested the natural alignment method is that you just didn't look comfortable. The follow through looked more like a snap than a finish, probably producing more of a poke than stroke. I think the suggestions you've gotten so far on follow through, and a very good one on what reference points to use if you want a more squared up snooker stance are what you should work on. Too much clutter is not good. Remember staying down on your shot not only promotes a consistent stroke, but it allows you to see some of the errors missed when there is too much movement involved. If you follow the old system..Stop,Pause, Finish while remaining still you will be able to see the errors, and correct them, but you have to be in a comfortable stance. Finding your natural alignment, with a little tweaking, can help you with that.
thank you, Tim.
i haven't jumped to any conclusions yet, this is going to be a Process...
i haven't jumped to any conclusions yet, this is going to be a Process...
Well,
many are discussing about your 2nd point- in my opinion the important point is the placement of the feet- if we are talking about *alignment* and stance, it starts with the feet. We could say you re *aiming with your feet*. 2nd important thing is, that you re aligning yourself in a way, that you re allowing yourself to execute your stroke without interfering yourself!
The natural way, like shown up from Eckert and Huber (which is usualy already been taught by Bert Kinister long long ago, too) is a good advice. But every human is different. For some guys it s not working (for what reason ever).
The natrual alignment where you re aligning like penguin (it really looks that way if you start with the first drills^^) is what i try first with a new student. Then i show him the 2nd method of alignment by explaining him to use/see a baseline,where the 4 importants points must be carefully setup. One of both methods will work in the most cases.
Both have common, that you can shoot without interfering yourself
If you ve found a comfortable stance for you, the next difficult and important point is, to find your *adress point* (like in golf, too for example). Then you can finetune all things thru practicing and you hopefully will have a repeatable straight stroke someday ^^Sry for low english
Of course all just in shortened version, but hope all understandable enough. lg
Ingo
Bob, I don't know if you're familliar with this but I believe this was the subject of a fairly big debate in the main forum. If I'm not mistaken, this is what was referred to as the elbow pointed slightly in towards the body.
Although this method is new to me, I would question a few things, such as, the alignment is based on a standing up position. Obviously, we don't shoot standing up. (I use an alignment that is based on the player leaning over on the shot as opposed to standing upright.) The method in the video is also based on holding the cue just behind the balance point. That locks the player into only one bridge length. With this method, standing in a relaxed state with the cue in your hand --- the cue will pull your hand and arm in a particular direction. I suspect that would change if you held the cue farther up or back. So, does changing the place your back hand grabs the cue affect your alignment with this system? As you know, we change bridge lengths frequently during the course of a game and adjust our back hand accordingly. How does that affect this system of alignment? Don't know. In theory, it appears that it should affect it significantly.
My additional issue with this stance is that it is based on being in a totally relaxed state and with evenly distributed weight. No pool player shoots pool in a totally relaxed state. There is always going to be some tension as you guide your arm back and forth with a particular speed. Just food for thought: There's more to alignment than just where you point your cue. There's the issue of weight distribution. It's different when you're standing straight up as opposed to when you're leaning over in a shooting stance.
While I'm not ruling out this method, I would definitely feel the need to spend substantial time experimenting with it first.
I'm not interested in debating that issue here, but just wanted to let you know that it is important for you to experiment for yourself and then decide what works for you. In the end, you'll choose what works for you.
I just wanted to give you my initial take on this theory of stance without having experimented with it.
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thanks, Fran. it's nice to have a big shopping basket of ideas to choose from, knowing that i may not keep them all.
the hard part, of course, is knowing what things feel wrong or don't work right At First because you've been doing it wrong for so long, but are really good ideas, vs. the ones that don't feel right because they're not right for your body.
some of these things are in some sense "absolutes" that a detached observer/coach can see definitely help you; others are left for the player to sort out.
i feel fortunate to have everyones' help here, and to feel like i'm on a path to figuring it out.
the hard part, of course, is knowing what things feel wrong or don't work right At First because you've been doing it wrong for so long, but are really good ideas, vs. the ones that don't feel right because they're not right for your body.
some of these things are in some sense "absolutes" that a detached observer/coach can see definitely help you; others are left for the player to sort out.
i feel fortunate to have everyones' help here, and to feel like i'm on a path to figuring it out.
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Wow i have the exact same problem! untill i read this i thought my error was in the way i was lining up the shot (my eye position in relation to the cue). i tried this counter clockwise rotation as well and amazingly i have had the same results. I have never had the coaching of a professor but i will soon enough. keep me informed if you come up with any breakthroughs. and ill do the same.
I think i found something!! I tried over extending my follow through and i found that my hand hit my peck muscle. it hit me, my elbow, wrist, head, and bridge are all in line but my sholder is slightly outside this line. i moved my wrist and elbow out slightly and made shure my hand drove toward my sholder instead of my peck on the follow through and amazingly the results are better than the counter clockwise turn.
Maybe this will help.
Maybe this will help.
I've been reading this extremely useful and practical discussion. I share similar problems as the gentleman who started the thread and I've been working with my stroke and rest of the fundamentals since a long time (took 3-4 years off from pool though)
i have mixed issues in grip/alignment/stroke, experimenting on many things - finally I tried a number of advice written here and from what I've learned, mainly:
1) to follow through all the way and looking at the fellow's most recent video and remembering the sweet follow-through stroke of pros, a few of those shots and suddenly I feel in dead stroke and finally get that "feeling" of playing the proper way.
note: But this happens mainly when I do a bit more "energetic" strokes, it's as if I'm making sure that the ball will go in and prepare my "sweet" follow-through while doing so, but it seems to only work on the "more energetic" strokes. Then afterwards when I started practicing the 14.1 game, a game where you need to slow down - I "slowed" down the energetic strokes and almost instantly the "sweet" in-the-money shooting slipped away, and I was left with a mix of the old habits of stroking slower , while trying to be as fluid as possible, but didn't feel "on-the-money" anymore.
2) adjusting body position to put the back foot on the line or slightly inside the line, as FranCrimi mentioned to me in another thread - this mainly helps the swing to be completely free and away from any chest area.... still working on it though it's really not as easy as it sounds.
3) while focusing on the follow through I also discovered that I needed to ABSOLUTELY make sure that the grip was loose during follow through. I seem to be quite loose in 95% of my stroking but it seems there is some slight minimal tension during the hit of the Q-ball and afterwards. It is more subtle though than the gentleman who started this thread. It is rather very very subtle - meaning it's a "grip" thing, meaning the grip during impact is probably not as loose as it should be, but working on loosening the grip and by shaking the forearm-wrist a little bit before coming into the shot (just as Archer does), combined with remembering that follow through - I picture myself that the cue stick is moving like a train through the q-ball and it works, don't know why I have a train in mind but it helps to focus on getting the cue thrown smoothly throught he q-ball... etc.
4) even after mastering all these, even when I feel "in-the-money" , it seems long straight shots or near straight in long shots which are at a distance of at least 4 diamonds , the object ball misses the pocket so it seems - this though I'm almost sure has somehting to do with my eyes, well you mentioned in the thread about the 3rd eye trainer and so I went ahead and watched a few videos from joe tucker. then while practicing today and missing some long shots which were almost straight-in or with a small angle, I had a feeling it's something with the eyes.. because at that point i was pretty much in a sweet stroke making all sorts of balls. I would also make the longer shots even the straight-in shots, but it seems when the object ball was near the rail i would miss it about 50-60% of the time etc. this subject is a bit complicated but i'm sure you guys know what i'm talking about..
about the eyes "misleading" our aim, the gent in this thread mentioned something about getting the 3rd eye trainer from joe tucker, then by curiosity i saw a few videos about the 3rd eye trainer where joe explained the problem of aim and eyes that most players seem to be having.. but i don't think that practicing your eyes 10 minutes a day will solve the problem, it seems to me you're forcing your eyes to be used both 50-50, what's wrong with playing using the dominant eye?
I found this video from Dr Dave's about the vision center to be helpful:
http://youtu.be/680o8EChP_o
i'll use that drill and check if the aim is due to vision not being aligned with the shot properly, which causes my frequent misses in longer near straight-in shots..
but really I find... enough practice should make our "aim" adjust automatically... but maybe not! . so it's tricky. perhaps practicing lots of straight long shots with low center and high spin, should be a good practice for adjusting all the fundamentals in one piece. you see joe tucker himself doing those kinds of drills.
the same ideoogy on stroke practice is proposed by bert kinister who's instructions I happened to watch a few years back when working on my stroke. he gives a few drills on long straight in shots, first one handed , then two-handed then two-handed backspin all the way back.
I remember I used to practice all day in that one-handed drill and finally got to make the ball almost 10 times in a row one handed, 4 diamonds apart. Bert emphasized that when you do that, then your body and eyes are positioned exactly how they should be for your aim to be perfect on that object ball.
on a side note.... I wouldn't be so sure that the one-handed exercise really improves your fundamentals. that's because when you go back to a two-handed position, your body's balance is different from the one-handed shooting. ..
--------------------------------
anyhow, going back to my practice, after getting that sweet-stroke flowing through, feeling like i'm cutting butter through those balls, following through, feeling like a champ, then I decide to put that in a game of straight pool... what happens is a slight dissapointment.
so after 1-2 hrs of practicing my stroke etc.. , I start a 14.1 game, and I start struggling with shots, because i guess i'm focusing still on my fundamentals, and also trying to focus on the game... it's kinda hard to do now I realize.
then while playing I probably unconsciously adjust adjust adjust,to the missed positions and missed balls, and finally the sweet follow through stroke is partially gone, mainly because I've slowed down the whole stroking and aiming process while thinking about my game.
looking back at all this, I realize it's probably best to focus on fundamentals and that stroke to get it real solid, and then move on to the 14.1 game (and other games)... somoene here mentioned that behavioural scientists claim it takes about 3000 repetitions to get something into a habit. but what about if you've been playing for "x" amount of years" , in my case i'd say 5-6 years. the adjustment period could be even longer than 3000 repetitions of the "new stroke'. plus, even when practicing the new fundamentals, you have some residue from the old habits and I'm sure it can take way more than 3000 repetitions to really master the newly adjusted stroke (with all it's small details - grip-stance-the way you do your practice strokes, the speed of your practice strokes, approach to the table before the shot and alignment with the object ball...etc).
when I first started working on my fundamentals I thought I was on for a short ride but now i realize that ride could be way longer than expected. perhaps a really solid and frequent practice until you get it as second nature, is what should be done. what do you think FranCrimi?
i have mixed issues in grip/alignment/stroke, experimenting on many things - finally I tried a number of advice written here and from what I've learned, mainly:
1) to follow through all the way and looking at the fellow's most recent video and remembering the sweet follow-through stroke of pros, a few of those shots and suddenly I feel in dead stroke and finally get that "feeling" of playing the proper way.
note: But this happens mainly when I do a bit more "energetic" strokes, it's as if I'm making sure that the ball will go in and prepare my "sweet" follow-through while doing so, but it seems to only work on the "more energetic" strokes. Then afterwards when I started practicing the 14.1 game, a game where you need to slow down - I "slowed" down the energetic strokes and almost instantly the "sweet" in-the-money shooting slipped away, and I was left with a mix of the old habits of stroking slower , while trying to be as fluid as possible, but didn't feel "on-the-money" anymore.
2) adjusting body position to put the back foot on the line or slightly inside the line, as FranCrimi mentioned to me in another thread - this mainly helps the swing to be completely free and away from any chest area.... still working on it though it's really not as easy as it sounds.
3) while focusing on the follow through I also discovered that I needed to ABSOLUTELY make sure that the grip was loose during follow through. I seem to be quite loose in 95% of my stroking but it seems there is some slight minimal tension during the hit of the Q-ball and afterwards. It is more subtle though than the gentleman who started this thread. It is rather very very subtle - meaning it's a "grip" thing, meaning the grip during impact is probably not as loose as it should be, but working on loosening the grip and by shaking the forearm-wrist a little bit before coming into the shot (just as Archer does), combined with remembering that follow through - I picture myself that the cue stick is moving like a train through the q-ball and it works, don't know why I have a train in mind but it helps to focus on getting the cue thrown smoothly throught he q-ball... etc.
4) even after mastering all these, even when I feel "in-the-money" , it seems long straight shots or near straight in long shots which are at a distance of at least 4 diamonds , the object ball misses the pocket so it seems - this though I'm almost sure has somehting to do with my eyes, well you mentioned in the thread about the 3rd eye trainer and so I went ahead and watched a few videos from joe tucker. then while practicing today and missing some long shots which were almost straight-in or with a small angle, I had a feeling it's something with the eyes.. because at that point i was pretty much in a sweet stroke making all sorts of balls. I would also make the longer shots even the straight-in shots, but it seems when the object ball was near the rail i would miss it about 50-60% of the time etc. this subject is a bit complicated but i'm sure you guys know what i'm talking about..
about the eyes "misleading" our aim, the gent in this thread mentioned something about getting the 3rd eye trainer from joe tucker, then by curiosity i saw a few videos about the 3rd eye trainer where joe explained the problem of aim and eyes that most players seem to be having.. but i don't think that practicing your eyes 10 minutes a day will solve the problem, it seems to me you're forcing your eyes to be used both 50-50, what's wrong with playing using the dominant eye?
I found this video from Dr Dave's about the vision center to be helpful:
http://youtu.be/680o8EChP_o
i'll use that drill and check if the aim is due to vision not being aligned with the shot properly, which causes my frequent misses in longer near straight-in shots..
but really I find... enough practice should make our "aim" adjust automatically... but maybe not! . so it's tricky. perhaps practicing lots of straight long shots with low center and high spin, should be a good practice for adjusting all the fundamentals in one piece. you see joe tucker himself doing those kinds of drills.
the same ideoogy on stroke practice is proposed by bert kinister who's instructions I happened to watch a few years back when working on my stroke. he gives a few drills on long straight in shots, first one handed , then two-handed then two-handed backspin all the way back.
I remember I used to practice all day in that one-handed drill and finally got to make the ball almost 10 times in a row one handed, 4 diamonds apart. Bert emphasized that when you do that, then your body and eyes are positioned exactly how they should be for your aim to be perfect on that object ball.
on a side note.... I wouldn't be so sure that the one-handed exercise really improves your fundamentals. that's because when you go back to a two-handed position, your body's balance is different from the one-handed shooting. ..
--------------------------------
anyhow, going back to my practice, after getting that sweet-stroke flowing through, feeling like i'm cutting butter through those balls, following through, feeling like a champ, then I decide to put that in a game of straight pool... what happens is a slight dissapointment.
so after 1-2 hrs of practicing my stroke etc.. , I start a 14.1 game, and I start struggling with shots, because i guess i'm focusing still on my fundamentals, and also trying to focus on the game... it's kinda hard to do now I realize.
then while playing I probably unconsciously adjust adjust adjust,to the missed positions and missed balls, and finally the sweet follow through stroke is partially gone, mainly because I've slowed down the whole stroking and aiming process while thinking about my game.
looking back at all this, I realize it's probably best to focus on fundamentals and that stroke to get it real solid, and then move on to the 14.1 game (and other games)... somoene here mentioned that behavioural scientists claim it takes about 3000 repetitions to get something into a habit. but what about if you've been playing for "x" amount of years" , in my case i'd say 5-6 years. the adjustment period could be even longer than 3000 repetitions of the "new stroke'. plus, even when practicing the new fundamentals, you have some residue from the old habits and I'm sure it can take way more than 3000 repetitions to really master the newly adjusted stroke (with all it's small details - grip-stance-the way you do your practice strokes, the speed of your practice strokes, approach to the table before the shot and alignment with the object ball...etc).
when I first started working on my fundamentals I thought I was on for a short ride but now i realize that ride could be way longer than expected. perhaps a really solid and frequent practice until you get it as second nature, is what should be done. what do you think FranCrimi?
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nice one. but it's not as simple as it seems. when you say you "made sure your hand drove towards your shoulder instead your pecs on the follow through", how did you do that exactly? did you move your feet and body to an entirely new stance, or did you just adjust while stroking mentally focusing on the hand driving towards the shoulder?
I think what's important is not only what you adjust, but how you adjust it. you could be adjusting one thing while de-adjusting another...
Nice thread.
The practice routine I use everyday (to get everything lined up) is to line up all 15 balls across the table at diamond 3.
With the cue ball at the diamond 6 line across the table I shoot 7 balls into the right hand pocket using center ball (or a little below center) to stop the cue ball. The remaining balls are shot into the left hand pocket in a similar fashion.
Now what this exercises does is it force you to check everything about your basics. Stance, line of aim, correct shoulder placement, correct chin placement, correct vision center, etc.
What I have noticed with my sons playing is that he shoots AT the cue ball rather than THRU the cue ball. It is sometimes difficult to get someone to believe the cue ball is not there and at the same time being able to feel the pressure (weight) of the cue ball in your grip hand.
Keep practicing Bob it will come to you.
John
The practice routine I use everyday (to get everything lined up) is to line up all 15 balls across the table at diamond 3.
With the cue ball at the diamond 6 line across the table I shoot 7 balls into the right hand pocket using center ball (or a little below center) to stop the cue ball. The remaining balls are shot into the left hand pocket in a similar fashion.
Now what this exercises does is it force you to check everything about your basics. Stance, line of aim, correct shoulder placement, correct chin placement, correct vision center, etc.
What I have noticed with my sons playing is that he shoots AT the cue ball rather than THRU the cue ball. It is sometimes difficult to get someone to believe the cue ball is not there and at the same time being able to feel the pressure (weight) of the cue ball in your grip hand.
Keep practicing Bob it will come to you.
John
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mmasou:
I think you're on the right track. You have made a lot of positive adjustments to your game and it will take time for it all to come together.
Here are 2 things you can try:
1) 14.1 Is a deceiving game. You are often required to shoot sharp angle shots at close range. It's a much different perception than typical 9 ball shots. Try shortening your bridge length on those shorter tricky shots. Adjust your back hand up as well so that your arm below your elbow is hanging approximately perpindicular to the ground when your tip impacts the ball. Then take your stroke and follow through as before. You will not follow through as much because your bridge length will be smaller, but it will be the right follow through for that bridge length.
You may also encounter collision induced throw with more shots in 14.1 so you shoud do a little research on that as well.
2.) As an experiment, practice long straight in shots, but take your thumb and index finger of your grip hand completely off the cue. Just rest them along side the cue facing down. Then just shoot the shots with the last three fingers gripping the cue only. If the shots start going in, you may have a twisting problem with your first two fingers. When you put them back on the cue you will need to relax them more and not put as much pressure on them as you stroke. ( Sorry for the repetition if I've already written this. I'm not going back and reading all previous posts here.)
Some players like to stroke with the pressure on the first two or three fingers. If you're one of those players, you can be susceptible to twisting issues.
I think you're on the right track. You have made a lot of positive adjustments to your game and it will take time for it all to come together.
Here are 2 things you can try:
1) 14.1 Is a deceiving game. You are often required to shoot sharp angle shots at close range. It's a much different perception than typical 9 ball shots. Try shortening your bridge length on those shorter tricky shots. Adjust your back hand up as well so that your arm below your elbow is hanging approximately perpindicular to the ground when your tip impacts the ball. Then take your stroke and follow through as before. You will not follow through as much because your bridge length will be smaller, but it will be the right follow through for that bridge length.
You may also encounter collision induced throw with more shots in 14.1 so you shoud do a little research on that as well.
2.) As an experiment, practice long straight in shots, but take your thumb and index finger of your grip hand completely off the cue. Just rest them along side the cue facing down. Then just shoot the shots with the last three fingers gripping the cue only. If the shots start going in, you may have a twisting problem with your first two fingers. When you put them back on the cue you will need to relax them more and not put as much pressure on them as you stroke. ( Sorry for the repetition if I've already written this. I'm not going back and reading all previous posts here.)
Some players like to stroke with the pressure on the first two or three fingers. If you're one of those players, you can be susceptible to twisting issues.
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