IPT means do or die for bigtime pool

[catscradle]

I saw a documentry recently about all the new FOOTBALL stadiums being built in the major American cities, smaller capacity but more like English FOOTBALL stadiums. It seems FOOTBALL may crack America after all. Of course with over 200 countries playing the game contributing to the biggest sporting event in the world, the world cup it doesn't really matter much

I think the reason many (not all) Americans don't like Football and Pool/Snooker is the $hite TV that is pumped out over there. If there isnt a goal or a fight every 30 seconds most people get bored too easy.

BTW, isn't the word soccer an acceptable term for English football. Afterall the term originated in England. http://www.gavinrymill.com/origin-of-the-word-soccer.html

Cats. <== still playing in an over 60 league. Veterans that's us.

 

[bsmutz]

.....I'm not sure what the difference is but I have a suspicion. I think that Americans have tons of stuff that they can personally participate in on any given day of the week. I don't think that is true in Asia and maybe not in Europe, either......

....If you genuinely believe that you haven't travelled much outside USA,or if you have you did so with your eyes shut.It would be hardly surprising if you haven't travelled outside USA of course since the overwhelming majority of American citizens have never been out of their own state never mind travelled abroad and 44% of a cross section of polled citizens were unable to even point to the location of the USA on a map of the world with the names blanked out,so you'll forgive us in the rest of the world for not necessarily giving much respect to how you might think we spend our leisure time.....

... When we watch TV, we want to be entertained...... I don't see that in Europe or Asia.....This is taken out of context, I was referring to professional sports teams in most major cities having games all year long, not being entertained by watching TV.

You are joking I hope....or do you think the whole of Europe and Asia is walking around in identical communist uniforms and only watching tv to see Govt instructions on how to fill in forms?.....

.... We also change focus on primary interests/activities as we live our lives and probably move around from one area of the country to another more than Europeans and Asians.....

See my first answer...

..... This would make us more prone to engage in activities personally than watch others doing the same activity......

....This is probably the most ridiculous of your many misconceptions.If you are so keen on engaging in activities instead of just watching them with a double cheeseburger in your hand why is it that USA has statistically by far the most obese population on the planet?....

Okay, let's take the most populated country in the world, China (already mentioned as having 100 million spectators watching a snooker event). The average income in China is $1000/year. What you are saying is that this $1000 per year compared to the average American income of $28,000 allows the same freedom and purchasing power? Also, the average Chinese person can choose from going to a baseball game, car race, basketball game, indoor swimming pool, fly fishing, movies, movie rental, go carts, golf, miniature golf, concert(s), pub, softball, soccer, driving range, book store, mall, car dealer, gun club, internet cafe, bowling, gym, etc, etc, any day/night of the week within a 60 mile radius of where they live? They also own boats, cars, tvs, shops full of tools for doing everything from working on their car to adding a room to their house as well as furnishing it. They also have sinks, toilets, showers/bathtubs, refrigerators and washers/dryers (which also assumes running water, electricity, and sewer systems). Why doesn't that sound right to me? Guess it must be because I never go anywhere and don't know anything about how people in China live their lives.
As far as Americans being obese, how many calories do you burn going to a movie or sitting in the stands watching a baseball game? I've never seen a fat person playing pool or driving a race car or golfing, not. I'm not saying that Americans are better than anyone else or that anyone who doesn't live in the United States doesn't have anything to do or never goes anywhere. I was speaking generalities. The reason Americans are proportionally fatter than people in other countries is because of the processed food we eat and the fact that we really don't have to work very hard if we don't want to. Usually, when I see a starving American, they are standing on the freeway onramp with a sign asking for work or money for food. When I see a starving person in most other countries (India, China, Mexico, Brazil, etc.) they are usually surrounded by a bunch of other starving people that actually have to go out and find something to eat or a way to get it if they don't want to die. If we had to walk or ride a bicycle to work and then spend all day humping our butts to make enough to buy a bowl of rice, we wouldn't be fat, would we?
The real point I was trying to make (I'll admit that I may not have approached it from the right angle or taken into account all of the appropriate statistics to support my GUESSES) was that we have a higher standard of living than most other countries (we own more crap) and that I felt that consequently we have more interests/activities clamoring for our spending money than in some other geographical regions that devote more time to watching/wanting to watch billiard sports. Add in the more influential and important cultural differences and I thought it might be a plausible explanation. Of course, it is just an opinion and isn't worth much. If you have a more plausible reason, let's hear it. There are plenty of other sports in this country and others that don't have any representation on TV or any other venue than actually attending the event. There are also plenty of "sports" and other programming that receive what I consider to be undue attention by mainstream America. Examples include soap operas, talk shows, & professional wrestling.

 

[justnum]

I do hope pool goes big time

Personally I'd hope that if it does I could enter a league with players my age and not half to be around supervisional adults. Then when I do try to get other people interested into playing its like we're not at the same playing level.

If I hit the lotto pool would definitely be on my agenda that and laying down some outlaw behavior on a sissy mastermind.

The educational aspects of the game are great to there is the requiring people to focus, getting them to plan ahead, the angles and the lack of physical aggression on the game.

Sharking tactics aren't as effective has hitting someone down and screaming like a wild thing in their face only to watch them realize their own weakness. Watching someone get frustrated its like they are chasing an imaginary fly just doesnt do it for me.

 

[Tommy Joe]

I'm not quite sure why pool becoming a big time spectator sport means anything to the regular guys like me. I liked it before they put it on tv and I'll like it after they quit. I couldn't give a crap whether some promoter makes a million or not. I would much rather see a couple of road players in a local pool hall beat each others brains out for 10 or 12 hours for a lousy $500.00 than watch a top tournament player run 7 games of 9-ball for $25,000.

Good point. I admire your honesty. I'd love to see more pool on tv, but maybe that's because I have surrended my life to the television set and don't get around much in the real world as I used to, except when I'm driving the cab, which is my job and my only social interaction with other human beings.

It seems everybody wants their own personal favorite sport to be on tv more often. I'd like to see more televised pool, but if I had a regular hangout and played every day, I don't think I'd build my day around what's on tv.

If the intensity of the poolroom game could be brought to tv, maybe then pool would become a popular tv sport. I can appreciate the game played at the highest tournament level on tv. But I don't much care who wins. I'm just watching the game. For any sport to become really popular, the fans must be drawn into the game to the point where they care about who wins. To the point where they care more about that than the game itself. That is the human element. That is what makes a sport popular.

Tommy Joe

 

[memikey]

Okay, let's take the most populated country in the world, China (already mentioned as having 100 million spectators watching a snooker event). The average income in China is $1000/year. What you are saying is that this $1000 per year compared to the average American income of $28,000 allows the same freedom and purchasing power? Also, the average Chinese person can choose from going to a baseball game, car race, basketball game, indoor swimming pool, fly fishing, movies, movie rental, go carts, golf, miniature golf, concert(s), pub, softball, soccer, driving range, book store, mall, car dealer, gun club, internet cafe, bowling, gym, etc, etc, any day/night of the week within a 60 mile radius of where they live? They also own boats, cars, tvs, shops full of tools for doing everything from working on their car to adding a room to their house as well as furnishing it. They also have sinks, toilets, showers/bathtubs, refrigerators and washers/dryers (which also assumes running water, electricity, and sewer systems). Why doesn't that sound right to me? Guess it must be because I never go anywhere and don't know anything about how people in China live their lives.
As far as Americans being obese, how many calories do you burn going to a movie or sitting in the stands watching a baseball game? I've never seen a fat person playing pool or driving a race car or golfing, not. I'm not saying that Americans are better than anyone else or that anyone who doesn't live in the United States doesn't have anything to do or never goes anywhere. I was speaking generalities. The reason Americans are proportionally fatter than people in other countries is because of the processed food we eat and the fact that we really don't have to work very hard if we don't want to. Usually, when I see a starving American, they are standing on the freeway onramp with a sign asking for work or money for food. When I see a starving person in most other countries (India, China, Mexico, Brazil, etc.) they are usually surrounded by a bunch of other starving people that actually have to go out and find something to eat or a way to get it if they don't want to die. If we had to walk or ride a bicycle to work and then spend all day humping our butts to make enough to buy a bowl of rice, we wouldn't be fat, would we?
The real point I was trying to make (I'll admit that I may not have approached it from the right angle or taken into account all of the appropriate statistics to support my GUESSES) was that we have a higher standard of living than most other countries (we own more crap) and that I felt that consequently we have more interests/activities clamoring for our spending money than in some other geographical regions that devote more time to watching/wanting to watch billiard sports. Add in the more influential and important cultural differences and I thought it might be a plausible explanation. Of course, it is just an opinion and isn't worth much. If you have a more plausible reason, let's hear it. There are plenty of other sports in this country and others that don't have any representation on TV or any other venue than actually attending the event. There are also plenty of "sports" and other programming that receive what I consider to be undue attention by mainstream America. Examples include soap operas, talk shows, & professional wrestling.

Yes,bsmutz TheOne and me and others knew what you generally meant,just a bit of fun.Where I come from the above would qualify as a bite

As it happens I played pool in China only a few weeks ago.I wouldn't pretend for a minute to be an expert on Chinese pool circumstances (Colin Colenso is the man on this site to seek out for that kind of insight) but it seems to me that, like many other countries,it is actually those natives of China who play pool who also constitute the bulk of the audience participation section of the population and that many within the aforementioned pool playing section of the population do in fact in general also have many of the trappings of modern life.It is not a question of the ignorant or dispossessed masses with nothing else in their lives idolising pool players,it is pool playing people who support the sport,just as in America.That in general is a consistent circumstance in many of the countries I've lived in or visited.

"In general" is probably being overused by you and me but in general I think that The West probably overestimates the popularity of pool in The Far East.It is absolutely nowhere near the top echelon of the sporting or pastime tree in any country at all (not even top 20) with the possible exception of The Phillipines and most certainly not in China.Even in the Phillipines it struggles for any official or Governmental promotion or support.It's progress is controlled by interested individuals(interested in a sporting or a making money context of course).

To glance in a different direction for a moment for a different perspective,the country in which I live is at the opposite end of the affluence scale from large chunks of The Far East,but the attitude to pool remains the same in general.Pool playing people are the only ones interested.The only reason that the WPA Worlds have found a regular home here is 100% as a result of a sheikh in one of the smaller and less fashionable emirates deciding to become an incredibly benevolent sponsor/donater of the required multi million dollar finance,seeking absolutely nothing in return....the reason...a personal like of the game by himself and by a few of his trusted colleagues,nothing else.

Yes,the popularity of pool as a spectator or participant sport may be partly influenced by the alternative distractions and pastimes open to the potential audiences....but although I love the game, I reluctantly have to believe on all available evidence so far that pool will ALWAYS be fundamentally boring to everyone other than pool players and boring even to a large proportion of them.The only way to EVER give it any appeal to the masses as a televised or live spectator sport is by the type of manufactured false caricaturing of participants and hyping up of hatreds etc between players plus possibly even some fixing of results etc all of which most of us find so nauseating in the likes of WWF.Does anyone really think that televised wrestling would have much spectator appeal without such factors? Larger cash prizes for the same existing pool players will NEVER on their own accomplish that mass live or tv audience appeal for such a simple and boring table game.Do we pool players really even WANT the type of audiences that WWF has? I can see why the investors would and why the top televised playing 'caricatures' would,but am not convinced why the average pool player who occasionally watches pool should be interested in helping accomplish that end,other than the possibility of some filtering down of scraps of finance to his level of the game

As an example of a different approach......an interesting experiment has recently been carried out in Uk where "pub pool players" from all over the country battled it out in a 'one frame sudden death knockout' competition for a winner takes all prize of 50k sterling.Not the slightest pretence made that the 'best' player would win,although several well respected 'proper' players made it into the last 32 stages which took place all in one night and was televised.Players were kept in a 'bull pen' cage awaiting their turn to play and even the knock out format was completely revolutionised just for this comp.The audience were given a free bar and encouraged to holler,chant and generally hype up the atmosphere.A totally unknown genuine pub pool player won the money and the event was a resounding success from a viewing perspective,probably more so than any televised Uk style pool world championship has ever been.

I am not suggesting this is exactly where all pool needs to go but a whole new way of thinking is needed and this was a good example

 

[bsmutz]

Thanks for the reply. While I agree with you that the mainstream support for pool worldwide is provided by those that actually participate in it, I have seen evidence that this has not always been the case and in some venues, it appears that it is not currently the case. Watching the World Snooker Championships, it seemed that there must be a good sized audience that wasn't necessarily involved in the sport either as a player or as a friend/relative of a player. Certainly earlier in the sport's history there were many thousands of people who had never picked up a cue that were interested in the outcome of matches played between the best in the game, either from a gambling perspective or merely as an interested spectator. Perhaps it had more to do with national pride or popularity of the protaganist, tough to tell from here. It may be that I am deluding myself thinking that such might still be the case in some countries outside the US.
I definitely like the "outside the box" thinking that went into the event you described in the UK. I think something like that could be something that pool players everywhere would enjoy participating in. Big countries would have to have regional events I would suspect. In any case, our discussions aren't really going to do anything to change the way things are so it probably doesn't matter what the real underlying reason is for one of our favorite sport's unpopularity.

 

[Chris]

Craig........you should know from Uk experience that pool has been a total disaster as a spectator sport for the entire duration of its short (40 years or so) life there.

Venue audiences are tiny and even the majority of the players knocked out don't stay to watch the final.Television viewing figures have been a joke.

Jake hit the nail on the head earlier.....pool is boring to watch,big time boring,for all but a comparative handful of us.

If it can be done,and I'm not sure it can,to make pool interesting to bigger audiences pool will need a completely new approach.Boosting cash prizes and providing glitzy venues simply won't do it on its own.Let's face it,pool is inherently boring and unless the participants are given something like wrestling type caricature personalities for the mass tv audience to love or hate that mass tv audience isn't going to give a jot whether they are watching them play a boring sport for a 500/- purse in a pool hall or a boring sport for a 500,000/- purse in The Hilton.

I can see it now...

Mike's cornerman distracts the ref long enough for the Mouth to break a cue over Wonder Woman's back to keep her from running out.

 

[memikey]

Yeeeaaahhhh!!!...Now yer talkin' my language

 

[memikey]

........... Watching the World Snooker Championships, it seemed that there must be a good sized audience that wasn't necessarily involved in the sport either as a player or as a friend/relative of a player. Certainly earlier in the sport's history there were many thousands of people who had never picked up a cue that were interested in the outcome of matches played between the best in the game, either from a gambling perspective or merely as an interested spectator.....

Alas.....snooker 's death knell was sounded when tobacco sponsorship was outlawed in UK and it is now a dying sport there.Uk snooker clubs are closing in their droves,those that aren't closing are replacing many of their snooker tables with pool tables,television audiences are a mere fraction of what they were, substantial sponsors are almost impossible to find and television companies are rapidly losing interest.The death throes may be drawn out for a few years yet but it is unlikely to ever recapture the spectator interest it once had

 

[Craig Fales]

I'm not quite sure why pool becoming a big time spectator sport means anything to the regular guys like me. I liked it before they put it on tv and I'll like it after they quit. I couldn't give a crap whether some promoter makes a million or not. I would much rather see a couple of road players in a local pool hall beat each others brains out for 10 or 12 hours for a lousy $500.00 than watch a top tournament player run 7 games of 9-ball for $25,000.

If that was your sole source of income you'd look at it differently.....
________

 

[BlackDragon]

'the average Chinese person can choose from going to a baseball game, car race, basketball game, indoor swimming pool, fly fishing, movies, movie rental, go carts, golf, miniature golf, concert(s), pub, softball, soccer, driving range, book store, mall, car dealer, gun club, internet cafe, bowling, gym, etc, etc, any day/night of the week within a 60 mile radius of where they live? '

china > baseball - no, car race - no though Shanghai has but then Shanghai may be more modern than general America, fishing - yes, indoor swimming pool -yes, movies - yes, mall -yes, pub -yes, soccer -yes, bookstore - yes, internet cafe - yes, within a two mile radius
theres eight pool places with one k......
there is more choice in America, youre right
..then theres umpteen karaoke lounges, restaurants, ...lots of chinese restaurants actually a well as kfc as well as outdoor adventures like hiking, going to the Lake, river boat trips....

 

[catscradle]

What actually qualifies as a "chinese restaurant" in China? A restaurant serving American style chinese food? Or are all the restaurants that aren't American chain franchises "chinese restaurants"?