IPT means do or die for bigtime pool

I'm not sure what the difference is but I have a suspicion. I think that Americans have tons of stuff that they can personally participate in on any given day of the week. I don't think that is true in Asia and maybe not in Europe, either. When we watch TV, we want to be entertained. We only watch the sports we are participants in or have an interest in. Most of the major cities have professional sports teams that have games going on all year (basketball, hockey, baseball, football, etc.) I don't see that in Europe or Asia. We all own cars so we can easily go where ever we want. We're also more independent so we make our own choices about what we want to do and are probably less influenced by friends and family. We also change focus on primary interests/activities as we live our lives and probably move around from one area of the country to another more than Europeans and Asians. I also think that the average American probably has more disposable income than the average European and definitely more than the average Asian. This would make us more prone to engage in activities personally than watch others doing the same activity. Then there is the cultural thing where bicycling, snooker/pool, and soccer are considered to be very entertaining in other countries and barely get a passing notice here. We have our own "American" sports that we as a country get behind that other countries barely give a passing notice to. If you live in Bangkok and have never seen a football game you are not likely to be very interested in watching the Super Bowl. However, if you grew up watching snooker matches with your family and friends emotionally involved with the players and matches, you will probably develop an avid interest in the sport.
Now take the IPT's venture into the sport and you are an average American who has had little or no exposure to pool on TV, especially in prime time, you may or may not be interested in this new twist. If you are interested, you may or may not even get OLN from your broadcast provider. You may or may not happen to catch it when it is on, months after the actual event took place and anybody who cares already knows who won. And, it better not conflict with the 100 millionth episode of your favorite cop show or some inane comedy that is aimed at a grade school intelligence level or a real sport like who can eat the most hot dogs in 10 minutes. I also agree with JAM that Vegas is not the right place to have this tournament if you are counting on ticket sales to recoup the prize money. Does anyone know what kind of advertising is being done? I personally have never seen any advertising for the qualifiers or for the tournament itself. All I have seen is after the fact advertising on TV for the shows on OLN for the KOH tournament. Is there any advertising being done at the poolhall/bar level?
 
bsmutz said:
I'm not sure what the difference is but I have a suspicion. I think that Americans have tons of stuff that they can personally participate in on any given day of the week. I don't think that is true in Asia and maybe not in Europe, either. When we watch TV, we want to be entertained. We only watch the sports we are participants in or have an interest in. Most of the major cities have professional sports teams that have games going on all year (basketball, hockey, baseball, football, etc.) I don't see that in Europe or Asia. We all own cars so we can easily go where ever we want. We're also more independent so we make our own choices about what we want to do and are probably less influenced by friends and family. We also change focus on primary interests/activities as we live our lives and probably move around from one area of the country to another more than Europeans and Asians. I also think that the average American probably has more disposable income than the average European and definitely more than the average Asian. This would make us more prone to engage in activities personally than watch others doing the same activity. Then there is the cultural thing where bicycling, snooker/pool, and soccer are considered to be very entertaining in other countries and barely get a passing notice here. We have our own "American" sports that we as a country get behind that other countries barely give a passing notice to. If you live in Bangkok and have never seen a football game you are not likely to be very interested in watching the Super Bowl. However, if you grew up watching snooker matches with your family and friends emotionally involved with the players and matches, you will probably develop an avid interest in the sport.
Now take the IPT's venture into the sport and you are an average American who has had little or no exposure to pool on TV, especially in prime time, you may or may not be interested in this new twist. If you are interested, you may or may not even get OLN from your broadcast provider. You may or may not happen to catch it when it is on, months after the actual event took place and anybody who cares already knows who won. And, it better not conflict with the 100 millionth episode of your favorite cop show or some inane comedy that is aimed at a grade school intelligence level or a real sport like who can eat the most hot dogs in 10 minutes. I also agree with JAM that Vegas is not the right place to have this tournament if you are counting on ticket sales to recoup the prize money. Does anyone know what kind of advertising is being done? I personally have never seen any advertising for the qualifiers or for the tournament itself. All I have seen is after the fact advertising on TV for the shows on OLN for the KOH tournament. Is there any advertising being done at the poolhall/bar level?
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Wow America sounds amazing, hey do you guys have those gadgets where you can speak to each other from far away too, think theyre called fones? :confused: Wow it sure does sound like there's a brazillion things to do over there, no wonder you guys don't like pool or futballz! :rolleyes:

You know the scary thing is, you was probably being serious. Don't get upset by this but you might want to keep that passport application on hold, you're just not ready for it yet! ;)
 
In at least one sense, I suspect that the IPT is do or die for pool.

For decades, I've heard players and fans suggest that if enough capital were injected into pool to enable top-notch event productions, pool would rise to great prominence as a sport. Unfortunately, nobody was able to devise a business model for pool that made heavy investment attractive.

In Kevin Trudeau, we have the first man willing to roll the dice on pool, the first man who believes that pool is so sellable that the investment of millions can be justified. He will spend very heavily on pool productions, player prize money, and the infrastructure of his new pool organization. He will use his undeniable marketing savvy to sell the pro pool product. All those that have invested or may invest in pro pool in the future will watch very closely, gauging the extent to which he is successful.

If Kevin Trudeau's business model is sound and the IPT is profitable, other potential investors in the sport will be more inclined to invest. If Kevin Trudeau's business model fails, I fear many will conclude that pool is incapable of generating the kind of revenue that justifies heavy investment. For this reason, I believe that we are at the "hinge of times" in our sport, and, at least to some extent, the IPT is do or die for bigtime pool.
 
I think the problem is that the American sports market is just too saturated. This is the same reason why soccer can't get a foothold. We just have too much sports choices for something to thrive that isn't already big business. We all know there are even a few MLB and NFL teams that struggle. After attending two WNBA games, I wonder how they can stay afloat with all the empty seats I have seen.
There are only so many sports entertainment dollars the fans have. The battle for each and every one of them is brutal business.
 
smashmouth said:
IPT failure means pool will NEVER reach it's rightfull place as a
bigtime spectator sport with big tv deals and high player earnings.

This whole IPT thing is really gonna allow us to gauge what kind
of demand there is among spectators for bigtime pro billiards in America.

opinions?
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I do not know what you mean by bigtime pro billiards in America, but if the ITP want to measure success, it need to cultivate big time Sponsor with the lure of reaching how many Million Pool Player in America

Big timeime Sponsors with deep advertising pockets who products we all buy, Tobacco, Booze, Beer, Wine, Prescription Drugs, Cars, Trucks, and the list goes on and on...........;) ;) ;) ;)
 
sjm said:
In at least one sense, I suspect that the IPT is do or die for pool.

For decades, I've heard players and fans suggest that if enough capital were injected into pool to enable top-notch event productions, pool would rise to great prominence as a sport. Unfortunately, nobody was able to devise a business model for pool that made heavy investment attractive.

In Kevin Trudeau, we have the first man willing to roll the dice on pool, the first man who believes that pool is so sellable that the investment of millions can be justified. He will spend very heavily on pool productions, player prize money, and the infrastructure of his new pool organization. He will use his undeniable marketing savvy to sell the pro pool product. All those that have invested or may invest in pro pool in the future will watch very closely, gauging the extent to which he is successful.

If Kevin Trudeau's business model is sound and the IPT is profitable, other potential investors in the sport will be more inclined to invest. If Kevin Trudeau's business model fails, I fear many will conclude that pool is incapable of generating the kind of revenue that justifies heavy investment. For this reason, I believe that we are at the "hinge of times" in our sport, and, at least to some extent, the IPT is do or die for bigtime pool.
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sjm, Do you have any idea how the IPT is doing financially? I recollect reading somewhere that Trudeau said the IPT was ahead of where he expected it to be at this time.

While Trudeau may be willing to subsidize the IPT for a couple of years, at some point I'm sure he's going to want to see a financial return on his investment...or the business model will need to be changed.
 
TheOne said:
You know the scary thing is, you was probably being serious. ... ;)
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You can tell a lot from Mr. Mutz's initials :D

I think sjm's post is an excellent summary. If the IPT fails in today’s media environment at the hands of an evangelical TV supersalesdude, it is unlikely anyone else will be so optimistic.

Dave
 
PoolSharkAllen said:
sjm, Do you have any idea how the IPT is doing financially? I recollect reading somewhere that Trudeau said the IPT was ahead of where he expected it to be at this time.

While Trudeau may be willing to subsidize the IPT for a couple of years, at some point I'm sure he's going to want to see a financial return on his investment...or the business model will need to be changed.
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He said he was already profitable after KOTH. But where would the revenue be coming from at this point? Id almost bet OLN is paying Peanuts if that so that leaves Gorina, Euro Sports and Diamond having to Fork over millions. Maybe they are but i cant see them taking that kind of Flyer just yet.
 
PoolSharkAllen said:
I recollect reading somewhere that Trudeau said the IPT was ahead of where he expected it to be at this time.
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I would take statements like that with a grain of salt. I am just waiting to hear him say that the IPT has had a 100% increase in profits from the previous year. :D
 
bsmutz said:
.....I'm not sure what the difference is but I have a suspicion. I think that Americans have tons of stuff that they can personally participate in on any given day of the week. I don't think that is true in Asia and maybe not in Europe, either......

....If you genuinely believe that you haven't travelled much outside USA,or if you have you did so with your eyes shut.It would be hardly surprising if you haven't travelled outside USA of course since the overwhelming majority of American citizens have never been out of their own state never mind travelled abroad and 44% of a cross section of polled citizens were unable to even point to the location of the USA on a map of the world with the names blanked out,so you'll forgive us in the rest of the world for not necessarily giving much respect to how you might think we spend our leisure time.....

... When we watch TV, we want to be entertained...... I don't see that in Europe or Asia.....

You are joking I hope....or do you think the whole of Europe and Asia is walking around in identical communist uniforms and only watching tv to see Govt instructions on how to fill in forms?.....

.... We also change focus on primary interests/activities as we live our lives and probably move around from one area of the country to another more than Europeans and Asians.....

See my first answer...

..... This would make us more prone to engage in activities personally than watch others doing the same activity......

....This is probably the most ridiculous of your many misconceptions.If you are so keen on engaging in activities instead of just watching them with a double cheeseburger in your hand why is it that USA has statistically by far the most obese population on the planet?....


:) :D :rolleyes:
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Marketing is the key

I agree that it will be interesting to see if the IPT tour can market the game in a positive way. I could care less about some of the interviews that they do including Gabe Owen, in his interview they portray him as a feared $ player and is all dressed up like a gangster talking about gambling $ on pool and that's what he is all about. Well I must admit I do wager occassionally on pool and I do think there is a time and a place, I recently asked Gabe to play some 10 ball for a few dimes and he declined my offer saying that he could get easier games than me. I believe the only way that pool will make it is for the org. to market it it the right way, when we see the poker tour the players are not talking about $ and or gambling, there simply telling you how they think and even if there is a script they (poker players) are letting the public in on some of their personality. Most of the players are somewhat humble and also colorful, it looks to me that the IPT's marketing strategy is to intimidate the viewers, I am probably going to qualify one of these days and when I do I'll be very careful about what I let them say about me. I can make myself look like a fool all too easy but I would prefer to do it away from the camera. I may not be a marketing genuis but I know that one of the key's for allowing the growth of pocket billiard's as a sport is to appeal to the youth, while interviewing one of their players it might be wise to include them working with a junior pool org. so that the public can understand that there are youth pool org's.
 
I'm not quite sure why pool becoming a big time spectator sport means anything to the regular guys like me. I liked it before they put it on tv and I'll like it after they quit. I couldn't give a crap whether some promoter makes a million or not. I would much rather see a couple of road players in a local pool hall beat each others brains out for 10 or 12 hours for a lousy $500.00 than watch a top tournament player run 7 games of 9-ball for $25,000.
 
memikey said:
... the overwhelming majority of American citizens have never been out of their own state never mind travelled abroad and 44% of a cross section of polled citizens ....
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I don't know if that's true or not, but, fwiw, I don't see anything wrong with that. What is wrong with being content where and who you are. My guess is the overwhelming majority of people in the world never strayed too far from their home unless forced to by economic circumstances. Maybe the guy you were responding to was making inappropriate assumptions about the rest of the world or maybe he just misspoke, but that doesn't suggest that those of us who are "homebodies" are somehow inferior for being so. Personally, if I had never had to leave my hometown in my life, I don't think I'd have been any the worse for it except for some unsatisfied curiousity. Travelling, IMHO, is much over rated.
 
TX Poolnut said:
.... This is the same reason why soccer can't get a foothold...
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I disagree with that, I think the reason soccer struggles is simply because it doesn't meet TV's commercial model... There are no timeouts.

Also American elitism contributes to the stagnation of soccer. Many people in America just reject soccer out of hand. When my kids were kids I helped coach their little league teams. I was amazed during the draft after tryouts how many people wouldn't even consider a player because he also played soccer. We grabbed them up knowing that if they were good at both sports they were a good atheletes.
 
Danny Harriman said:
I agree that it will be interesting to see if the IPT tour can market the game in a positive way. I could care less about some of the interviews that they do including Gabe Owen, in his interview they portray him as a feared $ player and is all dressed up like a gangster talking about gambling $ on pool and that's what he is all about. Well I must admit I do wager occassionally on pool and I do think there is a time and a place, I recently asked Gabe to play some 10 ball for a few dimes and he declined my offer saying that he could get easier games than me. I believe the only way that pool will make it is for the org. to market it it the right way, when we see the poker tour the players are not talking about $ and or gambling, there simply telling you how they think and even if there is a script they (poker players) are letting the public in on some of their personality. Most of the players are somewhat humble and also colorful, it looks to me that the IPT's marketing strategy is to intimidate the viewers, I am probably going to qualify one of these days and when I do I'll be very careful about what I let them say about me. I can make myself look like a fool all too easy but I would prefer to do it away from the camera. I may not be a marketing genuis but I know that one of the key's for allowing the growth of pocket billiard's as a sport is to appeal to the youth, while interviewing one of their players it might be wise to include them working with a junior pool org. so that the public can understand that there are youth pool org's.
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tap-tap. I've always felt that getting a ground swell of youth interested in pool is the answer. How that is accomplished... well, I leave that to better minds than mine. You're also very right about protecting you're image, the hype that the IPT sometimes engages in seems a questionable tactic to me.

BTW, I happened to watch an old Accu-stats tape of you playing "The Miz" the other night. What a dapper young man, I thought I was watching Fred Astaire. :D
 
catscradle said:
I disagree with that, I think the reason soccer struggles is simply because it doesn't meet TV's commercial model... There are no timeouts.

Also American elitism contributes to the stagnation of soccer. Many people in America just reject soccer out of hand. When my kids were kids I helped coach their little league teams. I was amazed during the draft after tryouts how many people wouldn't even consider a player because he also played soccer. We grabbed them up knowing that if they were good at both sports they were a good atheletes.
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I saw a documentry recently about all the new FOOTBALL stadiums being built in the major American cities, smaller capacity but more like English FOOTBALL stadiums. It seems FOOTBALL may crack America after all. Of course with over 200 countries playing the game contributing to the biggest sporting event in the world, the world cup it doesn't really matter much :)

I think the reason many (not all) Americans don't like Football and Pool/Snooker is the $hite TV that is pumped out over there. If there isnt a goal or a fight every 30 seconds most people get bored too easy.
 
12310bch said:
I'm not quite sure why pool becoming a big time spectator sport means anything to the regular guys like me. I liked it before they put it on tv and I'll like it after they quit. I couldn't give a crap whether some promoter makes a million or not. I would much rather see a couple of road players in a local pool hall beat each others brains out for 10 or 12 hours for a lousy $500.00 than watch a top tournament player run 7 games of 9-ball for $25,000.
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Except for one thing, a more successful pool tour means more pool interest, which means more day-to-day pool players, which means more pool rooms, which means more places to play.
 
catscradle said:
I don't know if that's true or not, but, fwiw, I don't see anything wrong with that. What is wrong with being content where and who you are. My guess is the overwhelming majority of people in the world never strayed too far from their home unless forced to by economic circumstances. Maybe the guy you were responding to was making inappropriate assumptions about the rest of the world or maybe he just misspoke, but that doesn't suggest that those of us who are "homebodies" are somehow inferior for being so. Personally, if I had never had to leave my hometown in my life, I don't think I'd have been any the worse for it except for some unsatisfied curiousity. Travelling, IMHO, is much over rated.
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Very reasonable points catscradle.The benefits of travelling,if any, may of course be different for different folks and at the end of the day whether travelling is even a benefit at all i would of course agree is a matter of opinion.I didn't suggest, and certainly wasn't in any way intending to suggest, that anybody was in any way inferior for not travelling,was just using those circumstances to provide some apparently much needed perspective for the original poster who seemed to be under the impression that the population of the rest of the world are static relative to region-hopping Americans,when proportionately that is probably very far from being accurate:)
 
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