IPT Nomination/Call Shot Rules

[memikey]

On the IPT site the rules clearly state that obvious balls/pockets do not require to be nominated.However European based friends who watched extensive live coverage say that every player appeared to be calling every single shot without exception,obvious or otherwise.

Can any player,cornerman,IPT official or anyone else please definitively confirm if the IPT Rules in this respect have ben changed of if it is still the case that obvious balls/pockets do not require to be called?

Thanks

 

[parvus1202]

I watched it live, they call every shots. It is not required but that doesn't mean they can't. They can if they want to. Besides it's better to be accustomed to. So I have no objection.

 

[mthornto]

Since they did not have to, I wonder if the players are calling all shots to get into the habit so they don't forget to when it is needed. Each game is too important to give it up on something like forgetting to call a pocket. I can remember seeing several games lost on that goofy sudden death 7 ball where players would forget to call the 7.

 

[poolboy17]

It is call pocket. While typically a player does not need to call an obvious shot...they were asked to by the television producers.

This was done ONLY for tv matches and was not required any other time during the tournament.

 

[onepocketchump]

It is call pocket. While typically a player does not need to call an obvious shot...they were asked to by the television producers.

This was done ONLY for tv matches and was not required any other time during the tournament.

I wonder how much influence on the actual play of the game that television producers have on tennis, golf, racing, football, basketball, baseball and any other big time sport? Seriously, it seems like pool always gets the ass-end of the deal. MAYBE that's part of the PROBLEM why the mainstream public won't take pool seriously. Maybe they can SEE that the pool events are MADE FOR TV and so they don't really FEEL the tension and the pressure that is really there.

John

 

[rackmsuckr]

It is call pocket. While typically a player does not need to call an obvious shot...they were asked to by the television producers.

This was done ONLY for tv matches and was not required any other time during the tournament.

Yes, that is what they told me to do on the TV match. Sometimes I forgot.

I was surprised how blase the players were at calling the 8. Many never called it at all, since it was obvious which pocket they were going for. But even in the finals, the refs just let them go, probably not sure what ball they were going for either.

One time there were several stripes near the corner pocket, and I am sure the ref wasn't sure of which stripe they were aiming at, but no call was made. They probably figured whichever stripe they hit was the one they were calling, lol.

 

[Cameron Smith]

I like the idea of having the ref call the ball for the player, like they would in 14.1.

I know if I am playing 8 ball for money, I make sure my opponent calls every shot, obvious or otherwise. It removes any arguements, such as when the object ball slides by another ball that is hanging in the pocket. Was he trying to do that, or did he intend a combination?

 

[Mark Avlon]

The protocol during the final match was that the players were to call the shot and then the referee would restate the call. There were only three shots during the finals that were not called by the referees. They did not call the shot because the player didn't call the shot and it wasn't clear if they had decided to shoot the shot when they got into position or were once again checking the shot. The referees do not want to distract the shooter if they are about to shoot.

You may have noticed that the players on several occasions called a different ball than what they shot. The referees called the correct ball.

 

[memikey]

The protocol during the final match was that the players were to call the shot and then the referee would restate the call. There were only three shots during the finals that were not called by the referees. They did not call the shot because the player didn't call the shot and it wasn't clear if they had decided to shoot the shot when they got into position or were once again checking the shot. The referees do not want to distract the shooter if they are about to shoot.

You may have noticed that the players on several occasions called a different ball than what they shot. The referees called the correct ball.

Thank you.I for one am glad to hear a referee's angle on this.However,that being said,I'm afraid that for me at least,the wording of your answer possibly raises as many questions as it answers:-

1. When you say "during the final match" do you mean exactly that ie "during the match between Hohmann/Manalo" and that this match was the only time the protocol of the referee restating the call was used? Or did you mean the protocol was used in all the TV table matches?

2. Although you do not say so we would presume that all your other comments referred only to matches played on the TV tables,correct?

3. Was the requirement of players on the TV tables only having to call every shot an actual temporary amendment to the IPT "rules" (No 7) or was it simply a "request" to the players to comply i.e. would a player on the TV table have actually been penalised by the referee if he did not call even the most obvious and simple of straightforward balls?

4. I suppose the answers to this last part partly depends on the answer to (3). You said that "the players (on TV tables presumably) on several occasions called a different ball than what they shot.The referees called a different ball." My question is in several parts....Were any of the players concerned in those "several occasions" penalised for potting a ball which they had not called and if not why not? Did the referee 'correct' the players call before or after the player shot? I presume it was before and if so did the players acknowledge the change of call before shooting? If they did not,what would have happened had the player called one ball,the referee a different ball in incorect expectation of what the player was about to do,and the players called ball was then potted?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Personally I didn't see the TV coverage and therefore have no personal opinion.However I can advise just for general interest that the overwhelming body of opinion from viewers of live IPT coverage in UK so far appears to have thrown up the following main opinions/perceptions of the regular pool playing people who watched,one aspect of which is directly related to refereeing/calling issues:-

(a) The quality of the film and audio is appalling and many viewers have expressed the opinion that it resembles a home made hand held camcorder shoot.The balls are difficult to identify,partly due to the aforementioned and partly due to the colour scheme/reflection of and from the hideously inappropriate carpeting.

(b) The quality of commentating is even more appalling.These are the guys doing the Eurosport commentary of course and I am not sure if they are the same ones as who will be commentating for what American TV and DVD viewers eventually see.

(c) Many of the players played far too slowly for experienced pool playing viewers tastes therefore it may have been excrutiatingly slow in the eyes of the general non pool playing public.Viewers therefore felt that a fixed time limit should be applied,somewhere in the region of 60 seconds.

(d) Experienced pool playing viewers found the calling of very obvious straightforward shots to be petty,pointless and a source of irritation.

(e) Notwithstanding all of the above the UK pool afficionados appeared to thoroughly enjoy it,despite many of them never having played American style/rules pool themselves.

 

[Mark Avlon]

1. When you say "during the final match" do you mean exactly that ie "during the match between Hohmann/Manalo" and that this match was the only time the protocol of the referee restating the call was used? Or did you mean the protocol was used in all the TV table matches?

2. Although you do not say so we would presume that all your other comments referred only to matches played on the TV tables,correct?

My comments were concerning the final match. The referees were asked during some of the other taped and televised matches to call shots.

3. Was the requirement of players on the TV tables only having to call every shot an actual temporary amendment to the IPT "rules" (No 7) or was it simply a "request" to the players to comply i.e. would a player on the TV table have actually been penalised by the referee if he did not call even the most obvious and simple of straightforward balls?

During all taped and televised matches, the players were requested to call all shots. There was no penalty if a player did not call obvious shots.

4. I suppose the answers to this last part partly depends on the answer to (3). You said that "the players (on TV tables presumably) on several occasions called a different ball than what they shot.The referees called a different ball." My question is in several parts....Were any of the players concerned in those "several occasions" penalised for potting a ball which they had not called and if not why not? Did the referee 'correct' the players call before or after the player shot? I presume it was before and if so did the players acknowledge the change of call before shooting? If they did not,what would have happened had the player called one ball,the referee a different ball in incorect expectation of what the player was about to do,and the players called ball was then potted?

My comments referred to the final match. It was obvious which ball was being shot and that the player misstated the ball number.

During the tournament, players were required to call shots that were not obvious. If a shot was not called, the opponent had the right to ask the shooter what they were shooting. If the player didn’t call the shot and there had there been a disagreement after the shot, the referee would have made a judgment whether the shot was what the player intended. The only penalty would be loss of turn. This issue never came up that I'm aware of.

 

[rackmsuckr]

Just to clarify...we were asked to call our shots on the TV tables, only for TV purposes. There was no penalty for not calling, as I forgot to a lot of the time. They miked us and they also taped mics near all the pockets to get the sound of the balls going in.

Also, when the ref made the right call, the player may have been looking down table and called the 10, then changed their mind and shot a closer 15 ball in the side without changing his call. It was obvious where the player was shooting.

 

[poolboy17]

During the tournament, players were required to call shots that were not obvious. If a shot was not called, the opponent had the right to ask the shooter what they were shooting. If the player didn’t call the shot and there had there been a disagreement after the shot, the referee would have made a judgment whether the shot was what the player intended. The only penalty would be loss of turn. This issue never came up that I'm aware of.

I think you're right Mark. To the best of my recollection, there was never a contested shot. If there was, the players self-resolved it.