IPT Tour Card 07 Qualifier

[Roy Steffensen]

To play the Tour Card 07 Qualifier in Las Vegas in December you need to either be one of the 50 lowest ranked IPT-players, or be top two on 100 upcoming qualification-tournaments in the world.

This means that maximum 250 players will compete to get the 50 available spots, each with a value of 100 000 $!!!

What a tournament, and what a pressure on the players!!!! Since "all" the best players are already secured a spot in the IPT by then, many of those players who play the qualifier haven't won anything before, and maybe not more than 500 $ now and then.

Would be nice to be "inside their heads" during the last racks...

 

[memikey]

Since you've brought it up Roy,have got to say that I am still confused by this procedure.

At the end of the 2006 season money list many of the top 100 positions will be held by 'qualifiers' who are not 2006 tour card holders.Therefore there will definitely be significantly more than 50 current IPT 2006 tour card holders who are not entitled via their finishing money list position to receive one of the 100 guaranteed tour cards for 2007.Many 2006 tour card holders will in fact finish outside the top 150 on the money list.

Lets say hypothetically that the completed money list looks something like this after 4 events:-

1-50...........2006 tour card holders

51-70.........qualifiers who are not 2006 tour card holders

71-100........2006 tour card holders

101-120.......2006 tour card holders

121-150.......qualifiers who are not 2006 tour card hlders

151-200.......2006 tour card holders

201-220.......qualifiers who are not 2006 tour card holders


If IPT really mean exactly what they say on their own website description of the qualifying procedure ie that "the bottom 50 ranked players from the 2006 season will lose their cards and will have the opportunity to play in the 2007 tour card qualifying event in December" it would mean that the 50 x 2006 tour card holders in positions 151-200 in the above money list would lose their cards and would play in the 2007 qualifying event (it is reasonable to conclude that IPT must surely have intended the "50" to refer to 50 existing 2006 card holders and not qualifiers as you cannot "lose" a card that you don't have in the first place).

So what then would happen to the 20 tour card holders who have finished 101-120? They would have neither a 2007 card by finishing in the top 100 nor a qualifying tournament place by being in the bottom 50 ranked IPT card holders.

Maybe IPT actually mean that the top 100 (irrespective of whether they are qualifiers or card holders) will get automatic 2007 cards and that players finishing 101-150 (irrespective of whether they are qualifiers or card holders) will get automatic entry into the 2007 tour card qualifying event in December along with the 200 hopefuls who win places in the 100 worldwide qualifying events.If they do mean that,then it follows that there will be many current 2006 tour card holders who will not even get automatic entry into the 250 runner field for the 2007 tour card qualifying event.

If on the other hand IPT are intending to guarantee every one of the existing 150 x 2006 tour card holders either an automatic 2007 card or a place in the 250 runner field for the 2007 tour card qualifying event in December this would inevitably mean that there could not possibly be 200 places available to be played for by hopefuls because in the above hypothetical money list there would already be 70 of the 2006 tour card holders who would be awarded places in the 2007 card qualifying event (tour card holders who finished 101-120 plus the 2006 tour card holders who finished 151-200).

The last possible scenario is that IPT intend the top 100 to get 2007 cards (irrespective of whether they are qualifiers or card holders) and for the next 50 highest ranked 2006 card holders to get entry straight into the 2007 card qualifying event.In that scenario no qualifiers who finished 101 or above would get an automatic place in the 2007 tour card event and those 2006 tour card holders not in the top 100 and not in the next 50 highest ranked 2006 card holders would also not get automatic entry into the 2007 tour card qualifying event.

Does that make any sense to anyone and has anyone got a clue what IPT actually mean because the numbers just don't add up under the current description they are using on their website for the qualification procedure?

 

[Grilled Cheese]

We've been over this before in older threads.

I've spoken with the staff at the North American Open just a week ago in Vegas, and they told me that MORE than 50 tour card holders can lose their card.

Basically, don't look at it as losing cards. Think of it as winning cards. Top 100 players (cardholders or qualifiers, doesn't matter) Win a card for 2007. That simple.

The rest, regardless of how they are composed or who they are, will not be on the tour as a result of 2006 tournament play.

Those not in the top 100 have 2 choices:

1] Try and qualify for the tour
2] Go home.

The IPT's website has bad wording. If you went by that, what happens if 100 of the 150 tour card holders finish 101-200? That means 101-150 would stay on the tour while 50-100 (who would be qualifiers) would be out. That would be outrageous.

NOW, the only question that remains is -- will those who lost tour cards automatically get a spot on the tour card qualifier tournament? I don't think so (IIRC from my conversation with the staff), because MORE than 50 are likely to lose their cards. I believe everyone will have to play in a regional pre-qualifier first, former card holder or not.


They could work it out where the top 50 card holders who lost their card get seeded into the qualifier. So, let's say 80 lose their cards. The top 50 out of the total 80 that lost their cards would get into the tour card qualifier. The bottom 30 of the 80 who lost their cards not only lose their cards, but don't even get into the tour card qualifier (unless they do a regional qualifier first).


That would be crazy!

Gotta love the IPT!

 

[Renegade]

They should hold pre-pre-qualifiers to determine who can enter the pre-qualifiers that will determine who can enter the qualifiers that will determine who can enter the 2007 IPT tour.

 

[memikey]

We've been over this before in older threads.

I've spoken with the staff at the North American Open just a week ago in Vegas, and they told me that MORE than 50 tour card holders can lose their card.

Basically, don't look at it as losing cards. Think of it as winning cards. Top 100 players (cardholders or qualifiers, doesn't matter) Win a card for 2007. That simple.

The rest, regardless of how they are composed or who they are, will not be on the tour as a result of 2006 tournament play.

Those not in the top 100 have 2 choices:

1] Try and qualify for the tour
2] Go home.

The IPT's website has bad wording. If you went by that, what happens if 100 of the 150 tour card holders finish 101-200? That means 101-150 would stay on the tour while 50-100 (who would be qualifiers) would be out. That would be outrageous.

NOW, the only question that remains is -- will those who lost tour cards automatically get a spot on the tour card qualifier tournament? I don't think so (IIRC from my conversation with the staff), because MORE than 50 are likely to lose their cards. I believe everyone will have to play in a regional pre-qualifier first, former card holder or not.


They could work it out where the top 50 card holders who lost their card get seeded into the qualifier. So, let's say 80 lose their cards. The top 50 out of the total 80 that lost their cards would get into the tour card qualifier. The bottom 30 of the 80 who lost their cards not only lose their cards, but don't even get into the tour card qualifier (unless they do a regional qualifier first).


That would be crazy!

Gotta love the IPT!

So to summarise the above basically you agree with me that it's unclear and you don't know what the definitive answer is

"Bad wording" is an understatement

This is not quite the same issue as was discussed before,that was only concerned with the allocation of the 100 cards for 2007.This is slightly different.

Apart from the vague bit about the "lowest ranking 50 IPT players" losing their cards it's all over the website in various places that the December qualifying event field will have 250 runners in total,consisting of 200 qualifiers from 100 worldwide pre-qualifying events plus the aforementioned 50 players.Now whatever the definition of those 50 players might eventually turn out to be they have to come from somewhere.If what the IPT staff told you is correct ie that nobody outside the top 100 on the money list will get straight into the December qualifying event field........ where are the other 50 in the 250 runner field going to come from? Yet another 25 pre-qualifying events making 125 worldwide pre-qualifying events in total?

Furthermore,if at least 50 current IPT players from outside the top 100 don't get straight into the December qualifying event and have to instead attend,pay the entry fee and win a pre-qualifier just to get into the event don't you think that some of them might feel more than a little peeved at that, given how the format was described to them at the beginning of the 2006 tour season?

 

[Gabber]

To play the Tour Card 07 Qualifier in Las Vegas in December you need to either be one of the 50 lowest ranked IPT-players, or be top two on 100 upcoming qualification-tournaments in the world.

This means that maximum 250 players will compete to get the 50 available spots, each with a value of 100 000 $!!!

What a tournament, and what a pressure on the players!!!! Since "all" the best players are already secured a spot in the IPT by then, many of those players who play the qualifier haven't won anything before, and maybe not more than 500 $ now and then.

Would be nice to be "inside their heads" during the last racks...

There is a rumour that the min prize will soon be a Billion $. How does that sound?

Gabber...in the know LOL

Just wondering, if I qualify for 2007 ,how do i know I will get my guaranteed $100,000? Should KT hand out $100,000 checks at the BEGINNING of the tour [ as a sign of good faith!] because thats the min payout for ALL the players right?
Is there a contract that I have to sign because I would rather have it now than on the day of the tourny or do players have to take their lawyer's with them to every tourny?

If its a free entry, he can do what he wants, but if I am paying $1,500/2,000 just to try and qualify, I want to know what I am getting into.

When KT announced that he WAS going back on his word about paying after every round, the 200 players should have jumped on him and persuaded him otherwise!

I would have asked him,"
"do you think I have travelled 5,000 miles to be treated as a POS?."

G.................not a violent guy, but there are limits....I don't care how much you are worth!

 

[onepocketchump]

It's like this:

150 Players have TOUR CARDS. The money list can be 200+ players long.

At the end of each year the top 100 players on THE MONEY LIST are automatically TOUR CARD HOLDERS for the next season.

The bottom 50 of those players who currently hold a TOUR CARD, #101-150 of TOUR CARD HOLDERS automatically drop from the list and must requalify for a TOUR CARD.

A TOUR CARD guarantees entry into ALL IPT events as well as the fabled $100,000 earnings guarantee.

The bottom 50 TOUR CARD holder are guaranteed entry into the year end qualifying tournament. How everyone else gets in is unclear. There will probably be some kind of pre-tournaments to get the field to some kind of manageble level. Or they might just take everyone who comes. WOuld be interesting to see a 1000 players show up and try to qualify for the IPT where only 50 spots are up for grabs. IF it were round robin, the same format as the IPT, I'd spend a couple thousand trying to qualify.

John

 

[Gabber]

[QUOTE IF it were round robin, the same format as the IPT, I'd spend a couple thousand trying to qualify.

John]/QUOTE]

For
" A TOUR CARD guarantees entry into ALL IPT events as well as the fabled $100,000 earnings guarantee."

LOL. Exactly. 'THE FABLED'. LOL

If they refuse to pay out $2,000 checks after 9 months of boasting about Real Rules and Real Money, how do you think they will be about handing out $100,000 checks?

Guarantee? KT's whole history shows that he cannot be trusted. Here we have the FIRST tourny and the draw is fixed [ at the very least it was done in secret and a very easy draw was provided for the ipt frontman!
KT goes back on his word to pay after every round and everyone [ players] are too scared to object!

If I go to a tourny at considerable expense expecting to be paid MY prizemoney at an agreed time and they turn round and change that agreemenT [ because thats what it is!] I WOULDN'T BE TOO PLEASED!

If we want to convince the world that Pool is a real sport, we have to do better than this!

 

[Grilled Cheese]

So to summarise the above basically you agree with me that it's unclear and you don't know what the definitive answer is

"Bad wording" is an understatement

This is not quite the same issue as was discussed before,that was only concerned with the allocation of the 100 cards for 2007.This is slightly different.

Apart from the vague bit about the "lowest ranking 50 IPT players" losing their cards it's all over the website in various places that the December qualifying event field will have 250 runners in total,consisting of 200 qualifiers from 100 worldwide pre-qualifying events plus the aforementioned 50 players.Now whatever the definition of those 50 players might eventually turn out to be they have to come from somewhere.If what the IPT staff told you is correct ie that nobody outside the top 100 on the money list will get straight into the December qualifying event field........ where are the other 50 in the 250 runner field going to come from? Yet another 25 pre-qualifying events making 125 worldwide pre-qualifying events in total?

Um, not exactly. Yes, the complete structure is yet unclear. We know about the top 100 getting a card for 2007. That's done.

The only thing in question is whether or not the 50 tour card holders that lost their card will get automatic entry into the qualifier. If the IPT is holding 100 qualifers that allow 2 players to advance, that's 200 players. The qualifier is for 250, so I assume that means the 50 card holders who lost their card. It's got to be.


Here's the part that has NO information and NO clear explaination, what happens when more than 50 card holders lose their card?? I believe this is inevitable. What then will be the selection process? I'm merely guessing that they'll choose the best 50 out of X number of card holders who lost their card to get automatic entry. That's just my guess. I don't know what other method they could possibly use. They could do a lottery, but that would be unfair to those who finished higher. They could put them ALL in, but then they'd have to lower the number of regional qualifiers....If it is an odd number, that means one regional qualifer would have to advance one player only...


The IPT is going to have to deal with the reality that more than 50 current card holders will lose their card. I believe it will be somewhere around 65 give or take 5.

Furthermore,if at least 50 current IPT players from outside the top 100 don't get straight into the December qualifying event and have to instead attend,pay the entry fee and win a pre-qualifier just to get into the event don't you think that some of them might feel more than a little peeved at that, given how the format was described to them at the beginning of the 2006 tour season?

Well, the format seems pretty straight forward to me with the exception of the automatic tour card qualifier entry for former card holders. When the IPT's wording was done, they did so with the idea that the 150 in the IPT are the best of the best (like Golf or whatever). The likely hood of having more than 50 current card holders lose their card is extremely remote when the field is packed with the best of the best. However, this isn't the case with the IPT in 2006. The IPT has more than 50 players who aren't strong enough to stay. Again, this only comes into play for automatic entry into the tour card qualifier tournament. That will be a big deal for some players, because some former tour card holders will NOT be able to even win a single regional qualifier.

I guess it's going to be tough cookies for those who lose their card. I think many already know their chances are slim for being on the tour in 2007 and they are enjoying the ride while they have it. Others are in denial. Some players were realistic from the start, others carry themselves as if they are high and mighty greats. There's going to be a lot of serious blows to many players pride in December. If a player whines or cries that they didn't get automatic entry into the tour card qualifier because they know how tough the regional qualifiers are - that should pretty much be a sign to themselves that they don't have what it takes to play in the IPT.

 

[Grilled Cheese]

For
" A TOUR CARD guarantees entry into ALL IPT events as well as the fabled $100,000 earnings guarantee."

LOL. Exactly. 'THE FABLED'. LOL

If they refuse to pay out $2,000 checks after 9 months of boasting about Real Rules and Real Money, how do you think they will be about handing out $100,000 checks?

The $100,000 is not a check at the end of the year, it is an earnings guarantee. If you win more than $100,000 in prize money - you get nothing extra. If you win less than $100,000 or your winnings and other "IPT related income" are less than $100,000, KT said he would cut them a check for the difference. He guaranteed that an IPT tour card holder would make $100,000 in income FOR 2007. Note, there's no pay date guarantee, but we can assume it would be after the 2007 season is complete.

Guarantee? KT's whole history shows that he cannot be trusted.

Well, yeah, he's not the most ethical person ever. He's one of the most successful snakeoil salesman of all time. However, he has spent millions of dolllars already, and has paid out massive prize money in pool - the likes of which has never been seen before. It doesn't appear that he's going to rip off anyone.

I too am skeptical about the $100,000 guarantee. We won't find out until probably December of 2007 when the 2007 season is over and when some tour card holders do not make winnings equally $100,000 or more, or other "IPT related income"...

Here we have the FIRST tourny and the draw is fixed [ at the very least it was done in secret and a very easy draw was provided for the ipt frontman!

So what!?! They never made any guarantees that I know of that the draw was going to be produced in any specific way. They never made promises about the draw that I know of, so they haven't gone back on their word. Even with the fixed draw, the best still rose to the top and no one complained. Seeding Sigel in with a relatively easy group didn't help him much but to advance him one lousy round.

KT goes back on his word to pay after every round and everyone [ players] are too scared to object!

Give us a break with that already. No players that I know of or spoke with have complained about it. Maybe you know a player or two you'd like to share with us who was angry because they didn't get paid in time to handle the excruciating financial burden of attending an IPT tournament.

If I go to a tourny at considerable expense expecting to be paid MY prizemoney at an agreed time and they turn round and change that agreemenT [ because thats what it is!] I WOULDN'T BE TOO PLEASED!

1] You're not going to be in an IPT tournament, so don't sweat it.
2] There was no "agreement" whatsoever about payday. KT said one thing back then, he changed it later on. But he DID give notice. He told them at the players meeting. Do you know what that means? That means if you got eliminated day 1, you KNOW in advance (players meeting) to LEAVE so that you don't incur uneccessary hotel expenses. WOW. What a concept! They'll mail you the check. If you're so concerned about players getting ripped off, ask them why they hung around for?
3] The IPT isn't that special when it comes to expenses. Yes, the Venetian is more expensive than other tournaments of the past, but the difference isn't anything to freak out over. The players already pay a lot of money in travel, lodging and dining to go to the US Open to play for $40,000 first place. It's not like the players don't have any credit or means to get to a tourney to the point that they need the check that second or the hotel will call the cops. If that were the case, most of these guys wouldn't even travel to any tournament - but they do. They go to dozens of tournaments that don't even pay back what they spend to get there, at least the IPT does and you even profit for losing.

If we want to convince the world that Pool is a real sport, we have to do better than this!

Oh yes indeed. I'm prepared like you are to throw the baby out with the bathwater. This is just unacceptable. These blunders will totally sink the IPT. KT better improve his management skills because he will anger too many fans like Gabber.

 

[memikey]

It's like this:

150 Players have TOUR CARDS. The money list can be 200+ players long.

At the end of each year the top 100 players on THE MONEY LIST are automatically TOUR CARD HOLDERS for the next season.

The bottom 50 of those players who currently hold a TOUR CARD, #101-150 of TOUR CARD HOLDERS automatically drop from the list and must requalify for a TOUR CARD.

A TOUR CARD guarantees entry into ALL IPT events as well as the fabled $100,000 earnings guarantee.

The bottom 50 TOUR CARD holder are guaranteed entry into the year end qualifying tournament. How everyone else gets in is unclear. There will probably be some kind of pre-tournaments to get the field to some kind of manageble level. Or they might just take everyone who comes. WOuld be interesting to see a 1000 players show up and try to qualify for the IPT where only 50 spots are up for grabs. IF it were round robin, the same format as the IPT, I'd spend a couple thousand trying to qualify.

John

With respect John your post really doesn't answer the problem we've been discussing.

1. The above cannot possibly happen as there are almost certainly going to be at least 15 qualifiers in the money list top 100 which means that there will be only 85 tour card holders maximum inside the top 100 and at least 65 card holders outside the top 100.If it is as you say "the bottom 50 card holders out of 150 card holders" who are guaranteed entry into the 2007 card qualifying tournament what would happen to the other 15 card holders who actually finished higher than the "bottom 50" and who would in the circumstances you describe neither have 2007 tour cards by being in the money list top 100 nor guaranteed 2007 tour qualifying competition entry by being in the tour card holders bottom 50?Think you really need to read again what Bola Ocho and I have been discussing.

2. As regards how everyone else gets in for 2007 being "unclear" and as regards there "probably" being some pre-qualifying tournaments for entry-fee paying hopefuls to get into the 2007 tour card qualifying event in December there is not a great deal of "unclear" or "probably" about it. Around 100 of such pre-qualifying events are already slated to take place worldwide before December to give around 200 winners entry to the December event which will be for a total field of 250 runners.I say "around" 100 events as this number could go down slightly because I'm guessing it's likely that IPT may have to juggle with the number of "guaranteed" slots for the players in the lower levels of the 2006 money list (presently they say 50 slots,but it seems at least possible that this number could change).

Hope this helps.

 

[Grilled Cheese]

There's only two possible things the IPT can do.

Take the total number of tour card losers. Then take the TOP 50 of them and give them an auto entry to the qualifier and call it good.

If there's 75 who've lost their cards, that means the bottom 25 card losers will not get automatic entry into the tour card qualifier.

*or*

Give the players ranked 101-150 an automatic entry into the tour card qualifer REGARDLESS of whether or not they are tour card holders or just tournament qualifiers.

If you think about it, the only reason to extend automatic entry to tour card losers would be as a form of preferential treatment. The fairest system would be to give 101-150 entry to the tournament - as they are the "first 50" who missed the boat. That's the sprit behind KT's whole "bottom 50" talk which implies the IPT would be already the top 150 players.



Why are these the only options? Time contraints. The Masters tournament, which is the last opportunity to win prize money and will finalize the prize money standings, takes place from November 26th to December 3rd. Tour card qualifer is December 12th. If any of the potential tour card losers place round 3 or better, chances are they'll retain their cards so it would be moot. For those that get knocked out round one or two, there's not enough time for them to qualify in a regional for the tour card qualifier IF they fall outside of the "top 50 tour card losers" (lol, gotta love all the new categories). It's a whole other discussion as to why they'd even care or bother to attempt a difficult regional, as their chances are virtually nil due to their season performance...but who's to say?


So, there's no way to change the number of automatic entries totaling 50. To change that number, you'd have to alter one of two things. 1] the total number of players who will play in the qualifier. 2] change the number of qualifiers and/or the number of players who can advance from a given qualifer. The problem with option one is that it would mess up how the round robin format is set up. Round robins require certain player totals to keep forming groups properly down the procession of rounds. The problem with number two is scheduling. There's just not enough time to cancel a qualifier (hosting pool hall would be pissed especially after buying all the equipment to host it) or not enough time to add qualifiers. Plus very little time for travel and arrangements.


Remember, the tour wouldn't know how many tour card losers there will be in total until after the Masters.


So 50 is the number and is impossible to alter. I guess it is just going to be tough luck for the tour card losers who are not part of the "top 50 tour card losers" group. The IPT is going to have to be practical and make the cut off somewhere. It isn't as though they haven't made every effort to give chances and opportunities as well as to accommodate everyone. I believe this is how they are going to do it.

As for making it the automatic entry for 101-150 (the other option), that would pose a problem only for qualified players landing in that range. They wouldn't know for certain until after the Masters whether or not they should attempt a regional qualifier, and if they need to, there wouldn't be any time. So they would have to (if they're serious enough and I think they would be after qualifying for past tournaments) play in regional qualifers as a precautions. I wonder if the IPT would reimburse them if they end up qualifying anyway? Not really a problem for anyone except for the qualified players who are desperate to get on the tour.


Maybe the IPT has something else up their sleeve. There really isn't that big of a problem if you think about it. All of this is based on that magic number "50" that KT spread around early on. It wasn't a good idea as it has added nothing but confusion. To simplify, top 100 win cards for 2007. Rest need to qualify. Who gets the preferential treatment is the big question.

 

[mnShooter]

Bola, you write way too much. I can't read all that. They will probably just give the tour card holders who did not finish in the top 100 free entry into the tournament. That would make the most sense. There could be more than 250 players though.

 

[Grilled Cheese]

Bola, you write way too much. I can't read all that. They will probably just give the tour card holders who did not finish in the top 100 free entry into the tournament. That would make the most sense. There could be more than 250 players though.

Well, if you read what I wrote, you'd understand why what you've just said is not possible (or at least not probable).

 

[DanielM]

Well, if you read what I wrote, you'd understand why what you've just said is not possible (or at least not probable).

It could if they reduced the number of pre-qualifiers. Although that would reduce revenue for the IPT, which would fall into the "not so probable" category.

 

[Grilled Cheese]

Bingo. Money is also a factor.


BTW, how could you reduce the number when you don't know how many will lose their tour cards till after the Masters. You've only got 9 days to reduce the number of qualifiers to accommodate the tour card losers (as I described in the long winded post).

 

[memikey]

Bingo. Money is also a factor.


BTW, how could you reduce the number when you don't know how many will lose their tour cards till after the Masters. You've only got 9 days to reduce the number of qualifiers to accommodate the tour card losers (as I described in the long winded post).

There is another way Bola Ocho which might even be one that has already been considered by IPT.

After the starting field for The World Open is finalised this month IPT will know how many players in total will be on the money list at the end of the season.Let's say for the sake of argument that total is 230 players consisting of 150 original card holders plus all qualifiers plus the alternates who were invited in to participate as temporary substitutes for card holders who were unable to play in one or more of the events.

If IPT then perhaps decided that all of the 130 players (card holders and qualifiers) who will be on the final money list outside the top 100 would get a guaranteed entry into the December qualifying event they and everyone else would then know as early as this month that there will be 120 December qualifying event places up for grabs in 60 worldwide pre-qualifing events.A total of 60 such events will be hard enough to fit into Sept/Oct/Nov but much easier than 100 events.

This would mean a potential reduction in qualifying entry fees but a big plus for the ease of logistical arrangements and for goodwill amongst the players.

Deno,if you are reading this that's a US$ 10,000/- consulting fee you owe me

 

[oneballeddie]

So, there's no way to change the number of automatic entries totaling 50. To change that number, you'd have to alter one of two things. 1] the total number of players who will play in the qualifier. 2] change the number of qualifiers and/or the number of players who can advance from a given qualifer. The problem with option one is that it would mess up how the round robin format is set up. Round robins require certain player totals to keep forming groups properly down the procession of rounds

I think we'll see 65-80 tour card holders lose their cards and they will ALL get into the 2007 Qualifier, plus 100 or so from the qualifiers. It is the only conceivable alternative. Kevin Trudeau told 150 people in Orlando that 100 of them would retain their cards and 50 of them would have to play in the 2007 tour card qualifier. End of story. If some of those 50 fall below #150 in the rankings they will still get in. Otherwise, Mr. Trudeau would be breaking a promise to those people.

Moreover, I don't see why the round robin format is so rigid it cannot accommodate a tournament of 280 players. They've already adjusted it for 150 and 200. Simply start with more groups, or more players per group (e.g. 6 players instead of 5 in the 1st round would increase the field to 240 with only one more match on the first and second days), and/or take fewer per group from some round(s), or add a round, or ...?

 

[Keith Buck]

I don't believe that there is a law that says that every round-robin group has to have the same number of players, it is just preferred.

That being said the easiest solution would seem to be to have the 100 qualifiers to get 200 players and then add any tour card holders who don't make the top 100. If they were going to have 50 groups of five but there were 65 card holders added instead of 50 groups of five players you would just have fifteen groups with six players and 35 with five.

As long as the draw was done randomly, I don't see a problem with the luck of the draw deciding if your first grouping had five or six players in it.

I also wonder if any of the card holders who aren't in the top 100 will just skip the qualifying tournament if there is no prize money and they are fairly sure they won't qualify.

 

[Grilled Cheese]

There is another way Bola Ocho which might even be one that has already been considered by IPT.

After the starting field for The World Open is finalised this month IPT will know how many players in total will be on the money list at the end of the season.

Yeah, they'll know the total number, but they won't know how many tour card holders in excess of 50 will lose their cards. Actually, they don't know the total number either come to think of it. Any old-timer may drop out of the last tournament for health reasons, that would require the IPT to call in an alternate which is kinda/sorta like a qualifier. The final number of players on the final money list will not be known until the beginning of the final tournament.

That being said the easiest solution would seem to be to have the 100 qualifiers to get 200 players and then add any tour card holders who don't make the top 100. If they were going to have 50 groups of five but there were 65 card holders added instead of 50 groups of five players you would just have fifteen groups with six players and 35 with five.

Moreover, I don't see why the round robin format is so rigid it cannot accommodate a tournament of 280 players. They've already adjusted it for 150 and 200. Simply start with more groups, or more players per group (e.g. 6 players instead of 5 in the 1st round would increase the field to 240 with only one more match on the first and second days), and/or take fewer per group from some round(s), or add a round, or ...?

That's fine and all, but what if the tour card losers number 71. That's an odd number. Can't form a round robin fairly with certain odd numbers. That would force them to adjust the number of players who can qualify in a particular qualifier. So far, all qualifier tournaments advance 2 players. You'd have to change at least the number of qualifiers to get within 1 (if odd), then have one qualifier only advance a single player. You'd have to do that till you reach a number that is divisible by some practical number to form decent round robin groups. I don't think the IPT is going to just add rounds ...they have a lease and a time frame in which the event will run. Adding rounds means adding days. The IPT doesn't operate like that.


I never meant that the player total needed to be a specific number. Just has to be reasonably round.


Whoever pays $1,500 or $2,000 to play in a regional qualifier and finds out only 1 advanes isn't going to be happy.


KT is going to have to eat his words. I believe the spirit of his statements were in the context that the 150 are already the best, so the "bottom 50" would surely all be tour card holders and get auto-entry. That's all very simplistic and fine for getting the idea across to players, but it does NOT work like that in reality.

So, something has to give. Either you give in to the tour card losers and accommodate them all while screwing over regional qualifiers, or you make everyone qualify which would screw over the tour card losers, or you do what I suggested might happen. The TOP 50, out of the, let's say for example, 72 tour card losers get a free entry. It's just tough luck for the other 22.