Is Billiards the toughest sport?

[JPB]

May I rebutt toughness, in the sense of phyiscal contact. We are talking about individualized competition requiring each player to post a score; not where you have other teammates covering the playing field, or two combatants such as boxing, wrestling, karate, etc.
With this said, I would like to suggest that billiard competition brings a toughness to the soul of the player that must, without personal contact, attempt to play under circumstances that may not allow them the opportunity to participate.

This seems unique and from an athletic viewpoint - tough.

The other thing I would like mention is about the physical control, or should I say intricate bodily motion, and how it must be delivered with near perfect execution every single shot. This expresses the magnitude of a relaxed physical state, in order to achieve (this may be the primary reason the majority of good pool players never become great). I agree that this attribute is opposite of the brawn in sports, but then compliments the spectrum of physical development.
I think this is being proven this weekend in the Skins Game, with Annika leading Mickelson, O'Meara and Couples. This was also the case a few months back where Corr won against Rempe.

You are right that golf offers just about everything pool does. But it is more physically demanding. You are greatly overestimating Annika. Annika is a great great women's tour player. And she is an excellent player by any other standard. Except she can't make it on the PGA TOUR. She played well in the Skins game, a phony event where the separation between players is evened out by short term luck. What happened on 17 is indicative of the problems Annika would have on the men's tour week in and week out. She handled the 445 yard par 4's and 185 yard par 3's pretty well. But as more men's tour courses are going to 475-490 yard par 4's and 240 yard par 3's, the difference is magnified. Her short game is worse than the men by a lot. And I'm not knocking her by any means. I was kind of rooting for her and as I said I think she played well by any standard. I just don't think she has any chance to get through q-school and stay on the men's tour. She would not finish in the top 125 on tour. So golf has all the physical precision of pool and all the mental challenge, but it takes more raw physical ability to play. There is no reason a woman shouldn't be able to compete with men in pool. But it will be a while in golf I think. Think about it, as great as Annika is, she can't make it on tour. As the commercials go, those guys are good.

Pool does have the factor that one player can prevent another from getting to the table. I'm not saying pool is easy or that it isn't a good game. It is an interesting and demanding blend of skills. But it isn't uniquely difficult in the world of sport. Particularly when you consider double elimination formats. I haven't noticed that pool players have some kind of spiritual toughness that isn't present in competitors in other sports.

 

[Banker Burt]

unaviodably another rebutt is in order, and not one that has been specifically addressed. At the professional level of any sport, there is a prize. We must remember that in order to be considered a professional, a player must make a living at being able to perform their skills.
If you play a sport that may not allow you to perform, then how is this not unique to any other sport? Then to compound this with very low incomes of Billiard sports athletes, we are right back to the word toughness.
I totally appreciate and respect your position, JPB, but to perform vs. not to perform, and to depend on this for a livelyhood...Whew. My hat is off to all professional billiard players. It will be difficult to sway my belief that they are in a league/sport all their own...

 

[JPB]

unaviodably another rebutt is in order, and not one that has been specifically addressed. At the professional level of any sport, there is a prize. We must remember that in order to be considered a professional, a player must make a living at being able to perform their skills.
If you play a sport that may not allow you to perform, then how is this not unique to any other sport? Then to compound this with very low incomes of Billiard sports athletes, we are right back to the word toughness.
I totally appreciate and respect your position, JPB, but to perform vs. not to perform, and to depend on this for a livelyhood...Whew. My hat is off to all professional billiard players. It will be difficult to sway my belief that they are in a league/sport all their own...

I am not knocking pool players. But they are not unique among athletes. There is the somewhat unique feature in pool that you may not get to shoot. And some prizes are small. But that doesn't automatically mean more pressure. Take an average double elimination trournament where the players play for peanuts. The best players can easily take care of the "dead money" players. Then they have to beat some good players. but one at a time. And because there isn't money in it, the pressure is actually lessened. What about the boxer who makes no money? He is scuffling under pressure and getting his brains bashed in. Compare to golf where to win (although not cash) you have to beat every player who showed up that week. And ALL of them are world class, unlike a pool tournament that might have some weak players. See, it's hard to compare. Now compare it to an average NFL player who has to perform, doesn't make a lot of money really, and risks injury. What I am saying is this, each sport has difficult aspects to it and pressure. Pool has it's own set of difficulties and pressures. But it is not in some class of its own. The best pool players are great. Huge skills, fun to watch, all of that. I am not knocking them at all. But to say they are head and shoulders above other athletes as far as toughness, mental or otherwise is just not accurate IMO.

 

[bruin70]

I think you're missing the point Bruin. There are very few sports where you can lose and not even get a chance to play. Knowing that sitting in your chair watching your opponent run rack after rack is very difficult to do. Most sports do not put their athletes through that kind of torture. Most athletes would probably have a difficult time dealing with this dilemma.

i understand that, rick. but i look at it another way. the game is too easy, and THAT makes for the situation you describe.

a lot of pool-aholics love the stringing of runouts. i find it the most boring thing in pool. i just watched busta vs. yang in the cardiffs. a great match played in runout packs . fantastic? yes. but the ease of the runouts was only a matter of fact. i prefer the heady, back and forth game of safeties.

i like alternate breaks. here is a structure that still allows for the importance of a single mistake and its consequences,,,yet both players play and there is tension throughout as the lead can shift back and forth through the entire match. the single mistake is just as costly.

banker's premise is that the POTENTIAL is always there for one opponent to sit the entire match. but there is better game to game tension in alternate breaks.

but i have digressed, i think. bottom line is we see two sides of the same coin.

 

[amateur]

In the game of snooker, you will always get to shoot a little no matter how weak a player you may be. Yes, even if you play Ronnie O'Sullivan.

With 9ball rules as they are now, you may not get to shoot anything but the opening lag shot, no matter how good you may be. The alternate break is ok for short races, but not so good for the long ones. It destroys one's ability to run racks.

In the winner breaks format, one can win 10 racks or more in a row and win. That is why I propose alternate breaks even for longer races, just little different.

Say the 9ball race is to 20.

Player A: gets 5 breaks
Player B: gets 5 breaks
Player A: gets 5 breaks
Player B: gets 5 breaks
and so on...it doesn't have to be 5 breaks...can be less or more, depending on the length of the race.

Running 5 racks is tough...yes, the pro's can do it easily, but not every time. Actually, in this format you would not see 5 racks in a row that often I think.

It would put additional pressure on the players..every player knows he has to make the most of his 5 or so breaks. Both would certainly get their chances. Also, the big breakers would not suffer. Only if the races are really long, you can give them classic winner breaks format.

I think that's all that can be done apart from changing the equipment, i.e. making tables and pockets tougher.

 

[Jimmy M.]

Say the 9ball race is to 20.

Player A: gets 5 breaks
Player B: gets 5 breaks
Player A: gets 5 breaks
Player B: gets 5 breaks
and so on...it doesn't have to be 5 breaks...can be less or more, depending on the length of the race.

I actually kind of like that idea. Sort of like tennis with the serve.

 

[bruin70]

I,,,,,The alternate break is ok for short races, but not so good for the long ones. It destroys one's ability to run racks.

I,,,,,
It would put additional pressure on the players..every player knows he has to make the most of his 5 or so breaks. Both would certainly get their chances. Also, the big breakers would not suffer. Only if the races are really long, you can give them classic winner breaks format.

I think that's all that can be done apart from changing the equipment, i.e. making tables and pockets tougher.

yup,,,alternate breaks makes longer matches,,,,,because the matches are tighter. because it's back and forth, the mistake is more costly,,,,,,like tennis. holding your break becomes critical. i think the camp is divided into those who like a string of racks and those who'd rather see a tighter match.

 

[Jimmy M.]

yup,,,alternate breaks makes longer matches,,,,,because the matches are tighter. because it's back and forth, the mistake is more costly,,,,,,like tennis. holding your break becomes critical. i think the camp is divided into those who like a string of racks and those who'd rather see a tighter match.

I don't really care to see tigher matches, but I think it is a better test of both player's skill when both players actually get to participate.

 

[LAMas]

For me, years ago 9ball was pure offense like golf. Back then a runout paid double to encourage offensive play. It is said of golf that there is no defensive play so that narrows the field of players. Pool today has become more defensive with safe/defensive play being encouraged which tends to level the field and that has increased the number of players that can compete - which is good for the sport.

Those that can't pocket all of the shots but have control enough to play safe have carved a nich for themselves agaist a pocketer that hasn't learned or refuses to play safe. Playing safe has become a science where a safe player will shoot his shot but play his sape such that if he misses hie leaves his opponent a bad shot or a hook. Though this slows the game down it does add to the difficulty of playing the game - not that it is needed.

Today's game requires one to be a pocketer, get shape, get out of safeties, play safe, avoid a runout unless it's the nuts, endure sharking and shark if you can - which makes pool richer than golf.

If you are a natural then the sport of choice is never the most difficult.

 

[Sputnik]

There are two kinds of athletes - jocks and precision athletes. And "toughness" are different aspects of the game.

I was a soccer player and was a sprinter in my younger days. To me, nothing beats the 400 meter run, both mentally and physically. (1st 100 meters, run as fast as you can, then gradually increase your speed... lol) Having your mind and heart push you to your physical limit is so different from having your mind control your muscle memory doing a winning 9-ball cut shot.

Precision sports can be played even by the elder folks, and the toughness in the game is more on mental discipline, and the handling of the nerves.

So there is a need to qualify the sense of the word "tough" here.

 

[Rickw]

i understand that, rick. but i look at it another way. the game is too easy, and THAT makes for the situation you describe.

a lot of pool-aholics love the stringing of runouts. i find it the most boring thing in pool. i just watched busta vs. yang in the cardiffs. a great match played in runout packs . fantastic? yes. but the ease of the runouts was only a matter of fact. i prefer the heady, back and forth game of safeties.

i like alternate breaks. here is a structure that still allows for the importance of a single mistake and its consequences,,,yet both players play and there is tension throughout as the lead can shift back and forth through the entire match. the single mistake is just as costly.

banker's premise is that the POTENTIAL is always there for one opponent to sit the entire match. but there is better game to game tension in alternate breaks.

but i have digressed, i think. bottom line is we see two sides of the same coin.

Bruin,

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I totally agree with your suggestion of alternate breaks. I was only agreeing with BB that pool, as currently played in some tournaments, is unique in that one player can lose and never shoot a shot. And, this is a big pill for a competitor to swallow. I certainly agree with you that alternate breaks are the way to go. Actually, I'd like to see another game played rather than the current "Texas Express" nine ball. Total Offense or some other game that better highlights the players' abilities would be something I might vote for, if I had a vote. Watching the top players play 9 ball is "boring" when they're playing good.

 

[bruin70]

Bruin,

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I totally agree with your suggestion of alternate breaks. I was only agreeing with BB that pool, as currently played in some tournaments, is unique in that one player can lose and never shoot a shot. And, this ,,,,.

then i'll try to better address banker's thoughts.

IN 9BALL,,,, i never got the sense from talking to "players" that they carried this weight concerning the consequences of making a mistake. to a man, they all expect to get back to the table. so i don't think the burden is quite what is stated.

it is quite different in 14.1, however,,,when two great players match up, ,,,they are well aware of the consequences of giving up the table to their opponent.

sitting and watching is certainly UNIQUE to pool, but it is rare enough that no one thinks about it.

 

[ajrack]

I agree...All good players have the attitude that they WILL get back to the table and then win the match!!
I once played in a state championship 9 ball tourney final...my opponent got up and ran the first 4 racks...I got up and ran the next 5...he then ran the last 5 and beat me 9 to 5 and neither of us missed a Ball !!!!
Great match and I was in it!!!

 

[thebigdog]

This game is so much different than others that it really is not comparable, the only one would be golf.
What makes pool and golf different is they are not such highly reactionary games that are dependent on reflex. You have so much time to think about consequences even when shooting.

This is the reason why I believe I quit playing for 10 years, I had gotten frustrated knowing I had more ability but was losing to people who did not play as well. But abililty does not count for everything in this game you have to believe you will make that shot when you have to. If you dont believe you will miss bottom line. I know this I have talked myself into missing tons of shots and many games.

I guess thats what also drew me back.

 

[Raistlin]

Sensational thread!

I persoanlly believe that golf and pool are extremely similar in that, at the very top level, it is the mental game that separates the men from the boys.

The physical aspect is not so important at that level unlike the more athletic sports...

 

[BazookaJoe]

I really can't understand the correlation often brought up between golf and pool. The only similarity is that you use a stick to put a ball in a hole.

 

[Banker Burt]

Of course, Bruin70, a player should not think about it, but as a match rolls down to the final few balls, and your opponent has made some circus shot, not to mention you may have played a great safety only to see your opponent make the hit and then see the object-ball carom off another ball into a pocket and the cue-balls rolls to a perfect run-out, and you have to just sit there and watch... these are hard pills to swallow.
To BazookaJoe, I agree there are more differences between golf and billiards than similarities, but that was my point. Because these differences exist, in comparison a bowler, golfer, archer, etc. every player gets a chance to post a score, which in billiards is not guarunteed.

 

[Duck]

Dear burt ,your remarks about not getting to the table ring true with me, I once had just won a match and drawn a household name for my next match, so the gentleman I had just defeated asked if he could come with me and watch my next opponent and I play. I bought us lunch and afterwards I warmed up and won the lag for the next match. I broke and ran the balls and broke the second rack ,(making no balls) and left this gentleman on the head rail and the one was on the foot rail abaout three inches inside the center diamond.He shot a masse' around the six pocketed the one ran that rack and the set (of 7) out and I sat patiently on my stool watching each ball roll directly into the pocket. About game five in this water torture , I turned to the fellow who was with me and said I hope you saw that I made the best move made in this match, to which I got a puzzeled stare, I said , "If you look around the room I'm the only guy here with a stool with a cushion in the seat , and its a damn good thing I have one, given the amount of sitting I'm doing". He broke up laughing and I wished my opponenet well , and he finished second at Derby City that year and have never forgotten to look for cushions in pool stools ever since,,take care "The Duckl"