Is it a foul to use a piece of chalk as a measuring device?

C

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I’m pretty sure it is a foul but it happened tonight in one of our tournaments. The player was using the piece of chalk to check if there was enough clearance to get the cue ball through a gap near the cushion.

It’s my understanding that he could use his cue shaft as long as he doesn’t let go of it, but he cannot use any other piece of equipment (ball, chalk or anything else) to measure a gap, otherwise it is a foul?
 
1.3 Player’s Use of Equipment

The equipment must meet existing WPA equipment specifications. In general, players are not permitted to introduce novel equipment into the game. The following uses, among others, are considered normal. If the player is uncertain about a particular use of equipment, he should discuss it with the tournament management prior to the start of play. The equipment must be used only for the purpose or in the manner that the equipment was intended. (See 6.17 Unsportsmanlike Conduct.)
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(b) Chalk – The player may apply chalk to his tip to prevent miscues, and may use his own chalk, provided its color is compatible with the cloth.
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i suppose you could make the argument that chalk is not intended to be used as a measuring device. but i wouldn’t worry about it
 
ChrisinNC said:
I’m pretty sure it is a foul but it happened tonight in one of our tournaments. The player was using the piece of chalk to check if there was enough clearance to get the cue ball through a gap near the cushion.

It’s my understanding that he could use his cue shaft as long as he doesn’t let go of it, but he cannot use any other piece of equipment (ball, chalk or anything else) to measure a gap, otherwise it is a foul?
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the cue ball is bigger than the chalk?????
 
Ok you got me to dig out my 2012-14:BCAPL rules.
1-3 g. You may only use your vision to judge whether the cue ball or any object ball would fit through a gap, or to judge what ball the cue ball would contact first. You may not use any ball, cue, rack or any other equipment or other part of your body as a width measuring device.
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and Penalty is foul immediately regardless of whether a shot is executed.
 
Back in the day, I was tournament director of a weekly tournament. I kept a BCA rule book on hand and made it known that those were the rules. In the event of a dispute, it was available for reference and proof.
The current BCA PL player hand book is a good and thurough set of rules and even has a section on Applied Rulings.
 
You may only use your vision
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Just remembered a scotch doubles event where my partner had eagle eyes. Whatever shape I needed, I could add at least 2 feet to what I could leave him. So when I wasn't sure if a ball would fit, I just asked him, "will it fit through there?" Didn't mean I could make it just that it was possible.😉🤷
 
gregcantrall said:
Just remembered a scotch doubles event where my partner had eagle eyes. Whatever shape I needed, I could add at least 2 feet to what I could leave him. So when I wasn't sure if a ball would fit, I just asked him, "will it fit through there?" Didn't mean I could make it just that it was possible.😉🤷
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I was thinking along the same lines, if the fit is so tight that you need to measure it, can you actually get the cue ball through there and to the place it needs to be on the other side?
 
Keep in mind, when you're aggravating some players with an obvious foul, your table antics can end like a rodeo bull ride, with you in a heap on the floor.
 
I was playing someone at the BCA nationals and they we using the chalk to mark where on the rail they want to rebound off/come to rest.

I didn't say anything for a few shots (very first game) but then I just went and picked up the chalk when he was getting ready to shoot.

He complained, so I put it back... no where near where it was. He went and moved it back.... I moved it again.

He went to move it back and I called a ref over... end result is he didn't do it anymore and lost badly.
 
eastcoast_chris said:
I was playing someone at the BCA nationals and they we using the chalk to mark where on the rail they want to rebound off/come to rest.

I didn't say anything for a few shots (very first game) but then I just went and picked up the chalk when he was getting ready to shoot.

He complained, so I put it back... no where near where it was. He went and moved it back.... I moved it again.

He went to move it back and I called a ref over... end result is he didn't do it anymore and lost badly.
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Oddly enough, somebody added it to their rules a few years ago that it was legal to place a chalk cube on the rail to mark where to hit it. I guess to save arguments but I would have thought they would be in step with the rest of the world and make it specifically illegal.

Only time I mark a rail is when checking my stroke. I will put a cube of master chalk on the center diamond and turn it at a forty-five so a corner is facing me to give the most precise aimpoint possible.

Hu
 
ChrisinNC said:
I’m pretty sure it is a foul but it happened tonight in one of our tournaments. The player was using the piece of chalk to check if there was enough clearance to get the cue ball through a gap near the cushion.

It’s my understanding that he could use his cue shaft as long as he doesn’t let go of it, but he cannot use any other piece of equipment (ball, chalk or anything else) to measure a gap, otherwise it is a foul?
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You can't use anything to measure spaces directly. I have seen players hover their fist in the air and try to measure things that way, which I think is acceptable, as long as you don't try to actually side the hand through the gap.
 
It’s an interesting issue when shooter has ball in hand. Rule says you can place the ball anywhere on the table. If you think cue ball will go through a gap, place it there, and then decide otherwise, must you leave the cue ball in that spot and shoot anyway? What if it actually will go through but it’s a close call and you decide another option is better. Are you still stuck with that shot?
 
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Clusterbuster said:
I know this will get the APA bashers started but after I saw this happen in league play, I emailed APA’s national office and asked if it was legal to use chalk as a marker. They said it was legal. Ridiculous, but that’s what they said.
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I thought it was APA that now specifically states in their rules that it is legal but I didn't want to say so just having read that second hand. Enough APA bashing as is but things like this earn some bashing! It should be specifically illegal to coincide with other rules and decades of precedent.

Hu
 
Clusterbuster said:
It’s an interesting issue when shooter has ball in hand. Rule says you can place the ball anywhere on the table. If you think cue ball will go through a gap, place it there, and then decide otherwise, must you leave the cue ball in that spot and shoot anyway? What if it actually will go through but it’s a close call and you decide another option is better. Are you still stuck with that shot?
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There are times when there is a close ball but with space enough to shoot from behind it, I have seen players place the cueball there to see how the shot would work. If it's clear there is no way to actually make a shot with the space, and they try to place the cueball there, that would be a clear measuring tactic and a foul or at least a warning about doing it. Since there is no rule against moving the ball several times with ball in hand, the player would never be stuck with shooting a shot in this situation, but if it's obvious there is no way to shoot the ball where they were putting that may be a measuring foul.
 
gregcantrall said:
Ok you got me to dig out my 2012-14:BCAPL rules.
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1-3 g. You may only use your vision to judge whether the cue ball or any object ball would fit through a gap, or to judge what ball the cue ball would contact first. You may not use any ball, cue, rack or any other equipment or other part of your body as a width measuring device.
gregcantrall said:
and Penalty is foul immediately regardless of whether a shot is executed.
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I gotta say this is retarded.
 
Clusterbuster said:
It’s an interesting issue when shooter has ball in hand. Rule says you can place the ball anywhere on the table. If you think cue ball will go through a gap, place it there, and then decide otherwise, must you leave the cue ball in that spot and shoot anyway? What if it actually will go through but it’s a close call and you decide another option is better. Are you still stuck with that shot?
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This is where the rule is hard to enforce without a ref present to be arbiter of the situation based on their judgment. If it’s to be enforced just between players, it’s argument bait.

If you place a cueball in a gap that has merit to be measured, it better also have merit for a cueball position. If it doesn’t have positional merit, it’s an easy foul to call. If the situation is ambiguous the player should get the benefit of the doubt (like with Karl Boyes and Ken Shuman). But if you try to be coy about it’s it’ll likely be obvious.
 
straightline said:
1-3 g. You may only use your vision to judge whether the cue ball or any object ball would fit through a gap, or to judge what ball the cue ball would contact first. You may not use any ball, cue, rack or any other equipment or other part of your body as a width measuring device.


I gotta say this is retarded.
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Why do you HAVE TO say that? I hope you are referring to the rule and not me. As I am a sensitive guy 😉.
Hopefully we're adult enough to discuss different opinions without name calling.
I don't always agree with all rules but do agree to play by them. It's a good thing to have clear and published rules.
The immediate enforcement is stated in the rules in case you interpreted that to be my opinion.🤷
 
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