Is it a foul to use a piece of chalk as a measuring device?

There's always a way for a less than honorable player to try to game the rules with techniques that maintain deniability.
"I placed the ball there thinking I wanted to shoot from there." Might get a player through a first insident. But is it worth it to impeach your integrity.
There was a time when I employed a technique that was questionable. I was placing my chalk on the rail as a marker for the line I wanted the cue ball on. Not where I wanted to strike the rail just a visual marker for where I wanted to end up. The deniability was "That's where I was going to shoot from next so I left the chalk there." I knew marking the table wasn't allowed. It took a pro to even recognize what I was doing and he called me on it after I had beaten him too many times in the $5 tournaments. He didn't say anything, just walked to the table and picked it up and handed it to me. I have never done it again. I still find the line but the landmark is now imaginary. It works just as well and I feel better not gaming the rules. Perhaps I am more mature now.😉 Well I hope.😉
 
gregcantrall said:
Why do you HAVE TO say that? I hope you are referring to the rule and not me. As I am a sensitive guy 😉.
Hopefully we're adult enough to discuss different opinions without name calling.
I don't always agree with all rules but do agree to play by them. It's a good thing to have clear and published rules.
The immediate enforcement is stated in the rules in case you interpreted that to be my opinion.🤷
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Sorry. Blurtomania. Rules like that pis me off. They try to stonewall cheating by contraption and instead act to preserve what is already a dog show. Even using a free ball is intuitive and logical. They want dummies instead?
 
straightline said:
Sorry. Blurtomania. Rules like that pis me off. They try to stonewall cheating by contraption and instead act to preserve what is already a dog show. Even using a free ball is intuitive and logical. They want dummies instead?
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While I may not agree with the measuring rule, I understand and abide by it. In our pool league, I would most likely just explain and warn an opponent that was preparing to use an object to measure. No foul call unless they behave ignorantly.
Another rule I would be fine with elimination of is required rail after the hit. Snooker has done well without it.🤷
O
 
gregcantrall said:
Just remembered a scotch doubles event where my partner had eagle eyes. Whatever shape I needed, I could add at least 2 feet to what I could leave him. So when I wasn't sure if a ball would fit, I just asked him, "will it fit through there?"
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So... By using HIS Vision, and not ONLY YOUR Vision (as 1-3g clearly states), did you willfully commit a foul, by using your partner as a "Measuring Device"? :LOL: - GJ
 
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How does rule 1-3g pertain to measuring a rail first shot, where you lay your thumb on the nose and finger at contact point then rotate up the rail to find your aim? Always thought that was perfectly acceptable?
 
gregcantrall said:
While I may not agree with the measuring rule, I understand and abide by it. In our pool league, I would most likely just explain and warn an opponent that was preparing to use an object to measure. No foul call unless they behave ignorantly.
Another rule I would be fine with elimination of is required rail after the hit. Snooker has done well without it.🤷
O
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I'm not an outlaw but lotta issues need pointing out. For instance the debilitating effect on evolution that half considered and baked rules like the "ruling" ruling have. You have the hordes trying to do pool like the "pros" ahem, with no clue as to how to estimate a shot much less actually shoot it. The closest example of aiming I can cite is the typical lower half league player going over to the object ball and lining it up to the pocket. They then walk back to the shooting end of the shot and guess at what the actual shot is. (obligatory lol) Sure there is ample instruction available - people like yourself but most of them will just emulate pro pool and T&E stuff till it goes in the hole, and then till they can remember it.

Far as I'm concerned you can use lasers to triangulate everything and take notes provided you do the pool manually - surprised there's no rules outlawing the cue itself for that matter.
 
"Reductio ad absurdum" is a phrase I like. Can't remember where I first heard it. Probably a movie.🤷
Obtuse is another word I got from a movie. Shawshank Redemption to be exact. Can't remember if it was deliberately obtuse or just plain obtuse.
I try to make sure I know the meaning of the words I use. Which can at times be difficult due to cultural differences. Jackie Chan did a good job of demonstrating that in one of his movies. Trying to be accepted in a new culture he committed the foul of using a word that had a different meaning coming from an outsider.
The BCAPL handbook taking a stab at answering miss conceptions with the applied rulings section is commendable. It is however a thankless task and bottomless pit.
My hope is to be an ambassador to the game. It's my hobby. I enjoy competition on the field of friendly strife.(mainly a table covered with felt😉 {I mean cloth})
Since it's impractical to have an impartial referee for our games as hobbiests, each player has that role in their own games. Giving two refs for each table. A split decision is then taken to the director for a ruling. A director can not rely on their eyes to make a ruling and the rules are the only tools that should be used at that point. Inability to resolve at that point can lead to two decisions in my experience. With the first being rerack and start over and the second being flipped coin. Dispute resolved, shake hands and go back to recreation.
I just hate it when I get long winded.😉 I have an excuse though.😉 It's too long winded for this occasion though.
 
Ok not out of gas yet.😉 I just flashed on a rule that I saw misapplied. The rule against laying your cue on the table. It's intention was to prohibit using it as a measuring tool. The effect was it prohibited laying the cue on the table to discourage the disturbance of the balls while you take an an emergency comfort break. Something that was customary where I am from. In a tournament room with 60 tables it wasn't unusual to look for a table not in use to practice. The cue on the table indicates it's in use. A less than honorable player was able to run to the ref and gain a favorable ruling while his opponent was in the restroom. Grrrrrr Dispicable.
 
Reductio absurdum, That mean inane dismissing??

Curbing the alteration of layouts through collisions involving objects other than legally struck balls is not a real good reason for such fouls. Like I said stonewalling contraptions seems to be what it is - expressed in lazy language.
If you need to measure or even subtly mark a shot BFD. If you subsequently foul, there are already rules for that.
I jump with my shaft albeit seldom on target. BFD I've used profanity during tournament matches. BFD. I do get my pool in. lol...
 
ChrisinNC said:
I’m pretty sure it is a foul but it happened tonight in one of our tournaments. The player was using the piece of chalk to check if there was enough clearance to get the cue ball through a gap near the cushion.

It’s my understanding that he could use his cue shaft as long as he doesn’t let go of it, but he cannot use any other piece of equipment (ball, chalk or anything else) to measure a gap, otherwise it is a foul?
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Not sure how using a piece of chalk to measure ball clearance works, but No it is not okay to do so. Chalk is not intended for that purpose. The same way that it is not okay to take a ball out of the ball tray (or pocket) and use it to measure an opening. If I saw someone using chalk this way I may give them a warning first to not do that. If they continued doing it I would call a foul on them and award BIH to their opponent.
 
Clusterbuster said:
It’s an interesting issue when shooter has ball in hand. Rule says you can place the ball anywhere on the table. If you think cue ball will go through a gap, place it there, and then decide otherwise, must you leave the cue ball in that spot and shoot anyway? What if it actually will go through but it’s a close call and you decide another option is better. Are you still stuck with that shot?
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No, you can pick the cue ball up and move it somewhere else.
 
I personally use one of those new-fangled Predator Swiss Army Pool Tools.
It incorporates Predator's finest chalk, scuffer, ruler, jump cue, break cue, coaster, ash tray, money clip, cry rag, pocket marker, extension, bridge, shot clock, ball counter, ball polisher, burnisher, scorekeeper, rack, iou's, alibis and will--- all in a compact, low-deflection, carbon fiber, belt mountable case.
Retails for $4,999.99, but save 5% by using the coupon code "MADEINCHINA".
I highly recommend it, raised my APA level from a 3 to almost a 4!
 
VarmintKong said:
How does rule 1-3g pertain to measuring a rail first shot, where you lay your thumb on the nose and finger at contact point then rotate up the rail to find your aim? Always thought that was perfectly acceptable?
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A rail-first shot is a kick. You’re describing using your hands to measure an angle. That’s explicitly allowed by rule 1-3f.

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jay helfert said:
Not sure how using a piece of chalk to measure ball clearance works, but No it is not okay to do so. Chalk is not intended for that purpose. The same way that it is not okay to take a ball out of the ball tray (or pocket) and use it to measure an opening. If I saw someone using chalk this way I may give them a warning first to not do that. If they continued doing it I would call a foul on them and award BIH to their opponent.
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That’s what I did. The only reason I even bothered informing him is that he is one of our best players and I was surprised he didn’t know the rule.
 
VarmintKong said:
How does rule 1-3g pertain to measuring a rail first shot, where you lay your thumb on the nose and finger at contact point then rotate up the rail to find your aim? Always thought that was perfectly acceptable?
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That is absolutely fine, as long as you don't mark the rail with anything. You can measure angles with your cue also, you just can't put it down while measuring and release both hands from it. The rule is specifically for measuring gap spacing. Looking for a specific spot target is fine, meaning you are lining up an angle or a point on the rail or table to contact. You can see the players do that in pro matches (SVB is a notable one) where he measures the distance to the ball with his shaft, holds it at the measured point then moves it over to the rail to get an aiming line on the kick. You are not measuring specifically if something will fit through the gap, there is no rule against the angle measuring.
 
MattPoland said:
A rail-first shot is a kick. You’re describing using your hands to measure an angle. That’s explicitly allowed by rule 1-3f.

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The f. must be a correction of the miss application of the cue on the table rule I saw ....well it was 10 or more years ago. Nice to see improvements made.
Giving hope to petitioning the rules committee if you think a rule is "retarded".🤷
 
gregcantrall said:
The f. must be a correction of the miss application of the cue on the table rule I saw ....well it was 10 or more years ago. Nice to see improvements made.
Giving hope to petitioning the rules committee if you think a rule is "retarded".🤷
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I know the coaching rule for Scotch Doubles has been revised as well.
Makes it important that I study the current BCA PL hand book before an event.
 
gregcantrall said:
The f. must be a correction of the miss application of the cue on the table rule I saw ....well it was 10 or more years ago. Nice to see improvements made.
Giving hope to petitioning the rules committee if you think a rule is "retarded".🤷
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Yeah f is a new one. Everyone used to do it then every one said no can do - Texas Express? But it's actually ok with the rules board?
 
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