I have been making cues for a very long time & I love the design work, that goes into making a Q. I love the construction process. I love the inlay work, but after that I would just as soon hand it over to someone else, to do the finish sanding & finishing. I'm a good painter, but I just would rather do the construction. AM I ALONE ON THIS???...JER
Is It Just Me?????
- Thread starter BLACKHEARTCUES
- Start date
I got to thinking, just this morning, about your response the other day about, the finish being the biggest hurdle to overcome, when going from repairman to actual cuemaker. I then wondered, maybe people could build the cues then ship them to Proficient or someone like that, for the finishing. How many people would send their cues out for finishing, if it were high quality and economically priced? I am sure if it got out that a cuemaker did this, that it would hold a negative stigma. You can make one of the best cues in the world, but if you do it in a garage or basement, there are people that would look down on it. Sorry for the rambling.BLACKHEARTCUES said:
Tracy
RSB-Refugee said:
I do the finishes for two different cuemakers besides myself. Also, I know of a very famous cuemaker who has always farmed out his finishes, at least ways for a number of years.
Although it is getting much easier now than in the past, finishing a cue is by far the hardest part of cue building. There are so many finishes and combinations of finishes and sealers that it boggles the mind. Un-like cars, some people get down with a lupe to try and find imperfections in a cue.
A finish is nothing other than glue. Problem is there are many different glues for different purposes. Some for wood, others for hard wood, others for some metals, others for other metals, phonelics, plastics and such that cues are constructed from. On top of this it must be hard enough to not easily scuff, not so hard as to chip, flexible enough not to crack do to expansion and contraction, be as clear as water and have a deep shine. It is about universilly accepted that auto finish gives the deepest, longest lasting, most durable, easiest to buff and clearest top coat finish for todays market. Thus the modern urethane auto coat is a wonderfull final coat for cues. What more could a cue maker ask for? Well, actually, there are other problems. The ability for the final finish to stick to all of the differing cue components and last for a number years is beyond Urethanes scope. It isn't designed to do that. It is designed to be sprayed over a compatable substrate. This is called Primer and there are different types of Primer for different materials. Unfortunatly, Auto Primers are not crystall clear as they are supposed to be covered with a color coat before the clear. What we use are sealers, Sealers need to have the ability to stick to all the components of a cue, not just the wood. Coming up with a good sealer, in my opinion, is a much harder decission to make than what type auto finish to use. It has to have many of the same good traits of the finish plus a few others. It needs to be clear, non yellowing, flexible, stick to all the materials in the cue, seal the wood itself and of coarse leave a surface that the clear coat will readily stick too.
Bad thing about sealers is it might be a couple years down the road before problems crop up. You could have hundreds of cues out there floating around, that need refinished and are ruining your reputation. The bad thing about gaining experiance in this instance is the amount of time and number of messed up cues that are involved before the experiance is gained. This is one of the great things that new cuemakers today have over cuemakers from times past. Now a days there are books and many cuemakers will tell what products they are using that can save many many hours and thousands of dollars in refinishes and reputation loss.
People who have been working on cues for years usually have an aversion to finishing because of the problems they had occur to them in the past. Plus there is the inconveniance of a proper spray booth, time in setting up and then cleaning the guns and cups and of coarse the inherent health risks involved in using spray finishes. It seems as though the better the finish the more deadly it is. Some finishes are so toxic you must have a full out fit including shoes and air piped into you for breathing to use the stuff. It enters thru your skin to kill you.
Dick
Most 2k (2 part paints) use isocynates in the hardner. Deadly stuff.
And all of the paint materials used is highly regulated; which also seems
to mean lower in quality and working characteristics.
I own a bodyshop and paint on a daily basis and have experimented
with dozens of brands. And not all urathane clears behave well.
But one can easliy adapt to different clears by adjusting the gun setup
and the speed. But for a final finish "before" cut and buff, there are a handful
of clears that are very good regardless of price and range. Long story...
On a tangent note:
I've been tinkering with a local cuemaker (sneaky pete maker).
I tapped and inserted my first pin yesturday! (oh yes, i'm on my way)
Anyhow, i want to clear one of the many cues laying around and from what
i gathered so far, one can spray vertically or horizontally while on a
rotating contraption. Joe Porper sprays vertically and the end results look
good to me. He also tells me Ernie (Ginacue) sprays his cues horizontally
on some sort of rotating contraption; this sounds a bit more efficient.
I'm sure i can rig up something but...
If anyone hase pics on his setup for finishing i'd appreciate the post!
And all of the paint materials used is highly regulated; which also seems
to mean lower in quality and working characteristics.
I own a bodyshop and paint on a daily basis and have experimented
with dozens of brands. And not all urathane clears behave well.
But one can easliy adapt to different clears by adjusting the gun setup
and the speed. But for a final finish "before" cut and buff, there are a handful
of clears that are very good regardless of price and range. Long story...
On a tangent note:
I've been tinkering with a local cuemaker (sneaky pete maker).
I tapped and inserted my first pin yesturday! (oh yes, i'm on my way)
Anyhow, i want to clear one of the many cues laying around and from what
i gathered so far, one can spray vertically or horizontally while on a
rotating contraption. Joe Porper sprays vertically and the end results look
good to me. He also tells me Ernie (Ginacue) sprays his cues horizontally
on some sort of rotating contraption; this sounds a bit more efficient.
I'm sure i can rig up something but...
If anyone hase pics on his setup for finishing i'd appreciate the post!
han said:
Here's a couple of pics of a 5 cue spray rotisserie I'm just finishing up. It has a DC gear motor with a variable speed. I made most of the parts in shop, with the exception of the bearings and motor. It has spring loaded tailstocks that are adjustable in case I need to spray a longer or shorter than normal cue. I made the parts that could get sprayed, out of delrin, so they can be cleaned up easily. I'm hoping this and the Axon insulator that my buddy Dickie of RHN cues turned me on to, will make my finishing a lot more efficient and a lot less hassle. We'll know this week!
Just more hot air!
Sherm
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Looks like you made your spinner a little better than I did mine. My first one doesn't spin as true as I would like. Yours looks great. Also looks like I may not be the only cuemaker with a old Gold Crown 1. I have had mine since 1979 and it was already 17 years old then. Come to think of it so was I.cuesmith said:
macguy said:
I've set this up with a DC motor and a speed control that with the gearing should give me between 0 and 450 rpm. I've found that aprox 100 rpm seemed to work pretty well in my old single spindle setup. Haven't had a chance to spray with this yet, I'm still finishing it all up.
just more hot air!
Sherm