Is it time for a low deflection shaft for me?

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Maybe not the same power transfer and likely not the same feel, but the same spin result.

pj
chgo
Yes, I'm sure you're right, but that's only at the brief point of impact. Once the cb starts to move, it then becomes affected by other characteristics of the shaft that will also affect the spin cycle (and I don't mean washing machine! Nyuk nyuk.). That's my theory, anyway. Feel free to prove me wrong.
 
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Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Yes, I'm sure you're right, but that's only at the brief point of impact. Once the cb starts to move, it then becomes affected by other characteristics of the shaft that will also affect the spin cycle (and I don't mean washing machine! Nyuk nyuk.). That's my theory, anyway. Feel free to prove me wrong.
What other effect do you think the shaft can create during the ~1/1000 of a second contact time? I'm pretty sure it's limited to a single impulse in a single squirt-modified direction.

pj
chgo
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
What other effect do you think the shaft can create during the ~1/1000 of a second contact time? I'm pretty sure it's limited to a single impulse in a single squirt-modified direction.
How much does that contact time change between a hard tip and a soft one...?
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
How much does that contact time change between a hard tip and a soft one...?
Roughly 2-to-1 variations have been observed but that difference is essentially irrelevant to the action of the ball. A hard tip is generally more "efficient" and transfers more energy so a softer tip will generally require you to hit a little harder to get the same RPMs and forward speed. The hardness of the tip has very little effect on the ratio of spin (RPMs) to speed (MPH). That is determined by how far off center the hit is.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What other effect do you think the shaft can create during the ~1/1000 of a second contact time? I'm pretty sure it's limited to a single impulse in a single squirt-modified direction.

pj
chgo
Well, I'm working backwards here. I already know that with an LD shaft, the cb is acting like it has less side spin on it than with a solid maple shaft. I see it in multi-rail position shots, for example. I've since adapted to the effect of less side spin. But I still don't know why that happens. I'm a sensitive player and I can feel all the nuances of all the shots I play, but this one --- I haven't been able to figure out.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Well, I'm working backwards here. I already know that with an LD shaft, the cb is acting like it has less side spin on it than with a solid maple shaft. I see it in multi-rail position shots, for example. I've since adapted to the effect of less side spin. But I still don't know why that happens. I'm a sensitive player and I can feel all the nuances of all the shots I play, but this one --- I haven't been able to figure out.
Here’s a simple spin effect test that convinced me - shoot a bunch of these with different shafts and compare results:

1. Use a striped ball as your “cue ball” with the stripe vertical and aligned with the shot.

2. Shoot the “cue ball” from the spot straight into the side rail (at the middle diamond) with maximum sidespin. Check the chalk mark to confirm you hit right on the edge of the stripe.

3. Shoot hard enough so the ball rebounds to the near side rail. How far to the side did it rebound?

On my “home” table I consistently get 3 diamonds of crosstable angle change no matter the cue.

pj
chgo
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here’s a simple spin effect test that convinced me - shoot a bunch of these with different shafts and compare results:

1. Use a striped ball as your “cue ball” with the stripe vertical and aligned with the shot.

2. Shoot the “cue ball” from the spot straight into the side rail (at the middle diamond) with maximum sidespin. Check the chalk mark to confirm you hit right on the edge of the stripe.

3. Shoot hard enough so the ball rebounds to the near side rail. How far to the side did it rebound?

On my “home” table I consistently get 3 diamonds of crosstable angle change no matter the cue.

pj
chgo
Unfortunately, I don't have a table at home but I will bring some cues to the pool room when I get a chance and give it a try. I'm starting to suspect that I may have been playing farther out on the ball with the maple shaft. It may be a sighting issue. Using the edge of the stripe as a guide for comparisons will be helpful. Thanks!
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Unfortunately, I don't have a table at home but I will bring some cues to the pool room when I get a chance and give it a try. I'm starting to suspect that I may have been playing farther out on the ball with the maple shaft. It may be a sighting issue. Using the edge of the stripe as a guide for comparisons will be helpful. Thanks!
Look forward to hearing your results, Fran. Thanks for giving it a try!

pj
chgo
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Look forward to hearing your results, Fran. Thanks for giving it a try!

pj
chgo
I just gave it a go myself... I used four different set ups.
  1. Predator Z2 w/ hard tip
  2. OG Predator 314 w/ medium tip
  3. Solid maple house cue w/ soft(?) tip
  4. Solid maple w/ phenolic
I placed the stripped "CB" on the foot spot and attempted to shoot it straight into the adjacent diamond on the long rail. I did the Z2 first and aimed to hit the stripe edge with the center of the tip. The remaining tips were larger so I did my best to offset away from center to generate the same tip edge/CB contact point.

Squirt was compensated for individually.

The results had the Z2, 314, and believe it or not the phenolic, all within <1/2" of the same point on the opposite long rail. Roughly 3 diamonds +4-5" away from the foot spot.

The house cue fell short by a couple of inches, but I'll blame their horrific condition and my bias.

I took a video of it but the angle does nothing but validate the set up
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I just gave it a go myself... I used four different set ups.
  1. Predator Z2 w/ hard tip
  2. OG Predator 314 w/ medium tip
  3. Solid maple house cue w/ soft(?) tip
  4. Solid maple w/ phenolic
I placed the stripped "CB" on the foot spot and attempted to shoot it straight into the adjacent diamond on the long rail. I did the Z2 first and aimed to hit the stripe edge with the center of the tip. The remaining tips were larger so I did my best to offset away from center to generate the same tip edge/CB contact point.

Squirt was compensated for individually.

The results had the Z2, 314, and believe it or not the phenolic, all within <1/2" of the same point on the opposite long rail. Roughly 3 diamonds +4-5" away from the foot spot.
Yes, the actual spot will vary from table to table - the important thing is how close they all come to the same spot.

Thanks for the effort and feedback.

pj
chgo
 

Positively Ralf

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just an update, but I ended up getting a cuetec R360 shaft and yeah, I'm going to have to get used to this thing. I'm not a very knowledgeable player about shafts and their characteristics, but this thing really feels different from the maple shaft I was playing with.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Just an update, but I ended up getting a cuetec R360 shaft and yeah, I'm going to have to get used to this thing. I'm not a very knowledgeable player about shafts and their characteristics, but this thing really feels different from the maple shaft I was playing with.
Aside from how the hit feels to you, the only physical things to get used to should be squirt and speed. Squirt is by far the bigger change.

pj
chgo
 
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